olp1fan Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) I realize this may just be grand standing, sabre rattling but what do you believe? http://news.sky.com/home/article/16101407 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is supposedly trying to persuade his Cabinet to authorise an attack on Iran's suspected nuclear weapons programme. The news was revealed by a government official who refused to be identified. It is unclear whether Israel is genuinely poised to strike or if reports of the supposed attack are meant to make the international community take a tougher line on Iran. Israeli leaders have long hinted at a military option, but always seemed aware of the practical difficulties, the likelihood of a counterattack and the risk of throwing the region into chaos. The development unfolded as the International Atomic Energy Agency is due to focus on the Iranian programme at a meeting later this month. The West wants to set a deadline for Iran to start cooperating with the agency. There are suspicions that Tehran is secretly experimenting with components of a weapons programme. Israeli leaders have said they prefer a diplomatic solution, but recent days have seen a spate of Israeli media reports on a possible strike, accompanied by veiled threats from top politicians. Earlier this week, Mr Netanyahu said a nuclear-armed Iran would pose a dire threat to the world and a "grave, direct threat" on Israel too. Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman was dismissive of the reports, but added: "We are keeping all the options on the table." But the unnamed government official insisted the option to attack Iran was now being debated at the highest level. However, he also said Israel's top security chiefs, including the head of the Mossad spy agency, oppose military action. Edited November 3, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
cybercoma Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Of course... the United States now occupies (heh) Iraq and Afghanistan. Check mate. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 It is more or less inevitable. Whenever Israel determines that Iran is close to having the capability to attack Israel with nuclear weapons, they won't have much choice but to destroy that capability. What other choice is there for them, Iran is sworn to drive the Jews from the Middle East. Iran already funds Hamas and Hezbollah, but nuclear puts the game into another dimension. Iran is unlike any othe nuclear power in that they are the Hand of Allah, or more like The Fist. Mutually Assured Destruction won't stop the current or future leaders of this regime from acting insanely. USA and Yurp won't do anything to stop it, Europe is also threatened by these loons. Quote The government should do something.
olp1fan Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Posted November 3, 2011 why dont they just keep trojaning irans nuclear plants? cyber war > real war Quote
jbg Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 What many people don't understand is that the first war Israel loses will be the last one it lives to fight. The State of Israel is about the size of PEI. It is a Jewish state. Jew hatred has been a fact of life from Biblical times. The Jews will not let themselves be annihilted. Ahmejenejad (sp) and the clerics are steering Iran and the Islamic world into a collision course with tragedy. I wish and pray that they could see the wisdom of peace. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
olp1fan Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Posted November 3, 2011 What many people don't understand is that the first war Israel loses will be the last one it lives to fight. The State of Israel is about the size of PEI. It is a Jewish state. Jew hatred has been a fact of life from Biblical times. The Jews will not let themselves be annihilted. Ahmejenejad (sp) and the clerics are steering Iran and the Islamic world into a collision course with tragedy. I wish and pray that they could see the wisdom of peace. Iran isnt a threat, theyre just an annoying house fly mossad and hamas basically are guilty of doing the same crap ahmadinejad has no real power, plus his term is up soon people claim he said he'd wipe israel off the face of earth but they misinterpreted it this has been documented many times, its just propaganda Quote
kactus Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Wouldn't buy into yet another "cooked up story" to get reactions and knee jerks for an attack... This news will probably join the rest of other anti Iran rhetorics on this forum and elsewhere since it all started in 2006.... It's yet another sensationalising tabloid. Quote
GostHacked Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 why dont they just keep trojaning irans nuclear plants? cyber war > real war Well that is already backfiring. Stuxnet, developed suposedley by the US and Israel, already mutated now called DUKU and is infecting facilities in the US. Cyber war has already been going on for a few years. Quote
Black Dog Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Iran is unlike any othe nuclear power in that they are the Hand of Allah, or more like The Fist. Mutually Assured Destruction won't stop the current or future leaders of this regime from acting insanely. Is there any evidence of this at all? Quote
Guest Peeves Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Iran isnt a threat, theyre just an annoying house fly mossad and hamas basically are guilty of doing the same crap ahmadinejad has no real power, plus his term is up soon people claim he said he'd wipe israel off the face of earth but they misinterpreted it this has been documented many times, its just propaganda So then what did Ahmadinejad really say that has been misconstrued? Meantime there has been at least one Iranian clerics calling for the nuking of Israel regardless the cost to Muslims. My link http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm Apparently (he thinks), a few million Arab Muslims and many Christians would be justifiably sacrificed to eradicate 6 million Jews and a Jewish state. Truncated, more at link. TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only"."If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran. Quote
Bonam Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Damages only? Israel is estimated to have ~300 nukes. That's enough to annihilate every city of note in the Muslim world if it came to it. And that's under the assumption that the US doesn't get involved, which seems unlikely if it came to a full-fledged nuclear exchange. That being said, I wouldn't put such a viewpoint past some of the crazy clerics. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Apparently (he thinks), a few million Arab Muslims and many Christians would be justifiably sacrificed to eradicate 6 million Jews and a Jewish state. And that is not an isolated view in Iran. They take their duty as Fist of Allah seriously there, as they have since the Islamic Revolution in the 70s. Is there any evidence of this at all? The only level of evidence that would satisfy you is a few megatons detonated over Tel Aviv, correct? The unwavering rhetoric of Irans leaders about wiping out Israel, and their massive support of Israels enemies as their proxies would not sway you either. Quote The government should do something.
kactus Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) And that is not an isolated view in Iran. They take their duty as Fist of Allah seriously there, as they have since the Islamic Revolution in the 70s. The only level of evidence that would satisfy you is a few megatons detonated over Tel Aviv, correct? The unwavering rhetoric of Irans leaders about wiping out Israel, and their massive support of Israels enemies as their proxies would not sway you either. Saying it and actually doing it are two diferent things. Rhetorics is what we are all used to. Like WMD claims, bla, bla bla. The clerics may be crazy as some suggest but they are not stupid to push the button. Remember the claim that Israel has over 200 nuclear bombs? Well, if true which all the intelligence seems to suggest the mullahs wouldn't risk it. Edited November 3, 2011 by kactus Quote
Black Dog Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) The only level of evidence that would satisfy you is a few megatons detonated over Tel Aviv, correct? Incorrect. The evidence would be a few megatons over Tehran. The unwavering rhetoric of Irans leaders about wiping out Israel, and their massive support of Israels enemies as their proxies would not sway you either. Nice attempt to move the goalposts. The question isn't whether Iran harbours enmity towards Israel, but if they are irrational actors who cannot be deterred by the prospect of their own destruction. So prove it. In the meantime, it's widely believed that the military strikes would be unlikely to halt Iran's nuclear ambitions (at best, it would only delay their work) and would invite retaliation. Given this likely outcome, one has to wonder why Israel is so fired up to take this step. Not to mention it makes one wonder who are the real irrational actors here. Edited November 3, 2011 by Black Dog Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 It's not just Israel, but other nations in the region as well who do not want a shift in the balance of power. Saudi Arabia is onboard any plan to disable Iran's nuclear weapons aspirations. Hell, so is the UN for that matter, with sanctions out the ying yang. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Saying it and actually doing it are two diferent things. Rhetorics is what we are all used to. Like WMD claims, bla, bla bla. The clerics may be crazy as some suggest but they are not stupid to push the button. Remember the claim that Israel has over 200 nuclear bombs? Well, if true which all the intelligence seems to suggest the mullahs wouldn't risk it. Wait and see. That is a very dangerous attitude to take when talking about nuclear weapons. Wait and see for what? Their use? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Wait and see. That is a very dangerous attitude to take when talking about nuclear weapons. Wait and see for what? Their use? Yeah because we would not want to have the evidence come in the form of a mushroom cloud!!! Ahahahahahahahhahaahhahahahahah. Quote
kactus Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Wait and see. That is a very dangerous attitude to take when talking about nuclear weapons. Wait and see for what? Their use? Not at all. Like I already said Israel has more than 200 nuclear warhead at its possession and the support of the US. Any possible attacking scenario you can think of has devastating consquences. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 If/when Iran successfully develops and tests a fission bomb, nonproliferation will be all but dead. There will be a nuclear arms race in the region out of necessity. Great yellowcake sales opportunity for Canada and Australia! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kactus Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 It's not just Israel, but other nations in the region as well who do not want a shift in the balance of power. Saudi Arabia is onboard any plan to disable Iran's nuclear weapons aspirations. Hell, so is the UN for that matter, with sanctions out the ying yang. I think you have a point there that if Iran possesses nuclear capability Israel will no longer have the monopoly power in the region. I think this is the excuse for an attack than what is the common belief. Quote
wyly Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Incorrect. The evidence would be a few megatons over Tehran. Nice attempt to move the goalposts. The question isn't whether Iran harbours enmity towards Israel, but if they are irrational actors who cannot be deterred by the prospect of their own destruction. So prove it. In the meantime, it's widely believed that the military strikes would be unlikely to halt Iran's nuclear ambitions (at best, it would only delay their work) and would invite retaliation. Given this likely outcome, one has to wonder why Israel is so fired up to take this step. Not to mention it makes one wonder who are the real irrational actors here. israel manipulates the media scare game very well...seeing what happened to syria's and iraq's nuclear programs it's a safe bet Iran has dispersed it's facilities and taken great steps to bury them far underground and to have more capacity then is officially known...a nuclear strike by israel will give legitimacy for iran to strike back and despite israel having a large number of nuclear weapons iran would only need to deliver 3 or 4 nukes to effectively destroy the ability of small country like israel to function... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
GostHacked Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 If/when Iran successfully develops and tests a fission bomb, nonproliferation will be all but dead. There will be a nuclear arms race in the region out of necessity. Great yellowcake sales opportunity for Canada and Australia! Don't forget Nigeria!! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 I think you have a point there that if Iran possesses nuclear capability Israel will no longer have the monopoly power in the region. I think this is the excuse for an attack than what is the common belief. No, it's not just Israel which has been part of the Maybe Has Nukes Club for a long time without destabilizing the region, and other states recognize this. Israel is not a signatory to the NPT, unlike Iran. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
wyly Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Don't forget Nigeria!! iran produces it's own yellowcake as can iraq and syria... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
jbg Posted November 3, 2011 Report Posted November 3, 2011 Saying it and actually doing it are two diferent things. Rhetorics is what we are all used to. Like WMD claims, bla, bla bla. Why should we disbelieve their words? Are you biting on the stereotype of Muslim fanatics, or secular Muslim leaders such as Saddam, as being liars as well as crazy? That is a bigoted, racist stereotype. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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