GostHacked Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 No way. I'm sick of this precedent the United States started with their "pre-emptive" wars. Anyone can claim to be pre-emptively protecting themselves. This discussion we're having alone warrants Iran attacking the United States or previous discussions would warrant North Korea attacking the US. When Iran actually does something, then we can discuss what we should do. Until then this is nothing more than fear and war mongering. I agree with your fear mongering assessment. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 .... When Iran actually does something, then we can discuss what we should do. Until then this is nothing more than fear and war mongering. Then may we presume that you volunteer Canada as the first place for Iran "doing something"? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Then may we presume that you volunteer Canada as the first place for Iran "doing something"? Iran does not even want to attack Canada. They don't want to attack the USA either. Targeting a Saudi ambassador (yeah that strict islamic country where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from) and targeting an Israeli ambassador is not a plot against the USA. This is all contrived bullshit to get people on board. And the ones who will be on board will be the countless idiots who don't pay attention to what is really happening. Iran is not a threat, never has been, never will be. Perpetual preemptive war (sorry kenetic military action) is not a solution. Quote
Wild Bill Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) There may well come a time when intervention in Iran becomes expedient. However, what they do to their own citizens, women or otherwise, will at most be used as a bone of justification to throw to lefties (not that it will satisfy them). You don't spend billions of dollars and risk the lives of your soldiers to go correct a perceived injustice in what some other nation is doing to its own people. Without some security or economic interest, Iran could be murdering its people by the thousands, as Syria recently did, and we would still not intervene. Bonam, it's pretty obvious by the deafening silence that the western Left couldn't give a damn about women being lashed in Iran, or any other Islamic fundamentalist country. Or gays being murdered either. They will take any sin of Uncle Sam, even if trivial in comparison, and treat it as a crime against the universe. Hell, even retaliating too strongly against some lesbian hecklers at a comedy club can cost you tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself in a kangaroo Human Rights Council Star Chamber. Yet countries like Iran are never challenged. The most you can get from the Left is that it's all somehow the fault of the Jews! That's part of why the Left long ago lost my respect. They act like they alone care about disadvantaged people. The Right are accused of eating babies for breakfast, to hear them say it! Meanwhile they demand their government help the poor with taxes taken from all their fellow citizens while walking by the Sally Ann buckets and putting nothing in themselves. It's simple hypocrisy, by definition. Edited October 17, 2011 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
GostHacked Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Bonam, it's pretty obvious by the deafening silence that the western Left couldn't give a damn about women being lashed in Iran, or any other Islamic fundamentalist country. Or gays being murdered either. And yet we give a damn about it when Saudi Arabia does it? Not as long as the oil flows from them. They will take any sin of Uncle Sam, even if trivial in comparison, and treat it as a crime against the universe. Hell, even retaliating too strongly against some lesbian hecklers at a comedy club can cost you tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself in a kangaroo Human Rights Council Star Chamber. Many of the USA's sins (perpetrated by entities like the CIA) are anything but trivial in comparison to a country like Iran. Yet countries like Iran are never challenged. The most you can get from the Left is that it's all somehow the fault of the Jews! So why Iran and not Saudi Arabia? That's part of why the Left long ago lost my respect. They act like they alone care about disadvantaged people. The Right are accused of eating babies for breakfast, to hear them say it! Meanwhile they demand their government help the poor with taxes taken from all their fellow citizens while walking by the Sally Ann buckets and putting nothing in themselves. People are only going to be fooling themselves with this whole left right crap. It's simple hypocrisy, by definition. Kind of like your post? Quote
Tilter Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Why not? Canada went to war with Iraq, Serbia, Libya, and others for far less years before. What's the big deal about Iran? Just call it more human rights violations and Responsibility to Protect and you will be golden. Hell, Ignatieff can right another book. Canada went to war with IraqWhen was that???--- not in the last thousand years Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 When was that??? 1991 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olp1fan Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Bill don't act like you give a damn about the safety of muslims, I've seen your posts about them and if we're going to start liberating people we should start with the north koreans where there are dozens of death camps, iran is small apples compared to the atrocities in north korea plus it would help our friends South Korea Edited October 17, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
eyeball Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Bonam, it's pretty obvious by the deafening silence that the western Left couldn't give a damn about women being lashed in Iran, or any other Islamic fundamentalist country. Or gays being murdered either. This is just straight up crap and you should stop making excuses. You simply threw your respect for the left under the bus of your freakin' wallet. Here's page after page of challenges to tyrants from the western left. http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/iran http://www.hrw.org/middle-eastn-africa/iran http://www.redpepper.org.uk/support-the-iranian-people-oppose/ Principled, consistent left-wingers do not base their politics on the unprincipled, inconsistent geo-political manoeuvres of western powers. We stand with the oppressed against their oppressors, regardless of what the west (or anyone else) demands or threatens. They will take any sin of Uncle Sam, even if trivial in comparison, and treat it as a crime against the universe. No what we'll do is realize that Uncle Sam is to a diddler as the Pope is to a diddler, which is to say that when such moral authorities as these violate the trust and power that is vested in them their crimes really stand out head and shoulders above all the rest. Trying to trivialize these crimes only focuses the spotlight that's on them. As for Iran, it's just a run of the mill rogue on a planet that's filled with rogues. The fact you're singing la la la with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears probably explains your nonsensical interpretation of what constitutes hypocrisy towards anyone's position on Iran's regard for human rights. In the meanwhile, how much of your portfolio is invested in such human right paradises like China? As I recall your Dear Leader Mr Harper has been over there doing a lap-dance for Hu Jintao. Sorry but did you say something about left wing hypocrisy? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Wild Bill Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 And yet we give a damn about it when Saudi Arabia does it? Not as long as the oil flows from them. Many of the USA's sins (perpetrated by entities like the CIA) are anything but trivial in comparison to a country like Iran. So why Iran and not Saudi Arabia? People are only going to be fooling themselves with this whole left right crap. Kind of like your post? I never said I excused the Saudis. YOU implied that I did and then called me down for it! For the record, I have contempt for their human rights record as well. That's why I champion the idea of ethical oil. If it were up to me we'd never give any Islamic fundamentalist oppressive state another dime for oil! Up till now we haven't had much choice but now with the oilsands we do. Not only should we take it but so should countries like the USA! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
maple_leafs182 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Yeah, that's it! Iran is really a nice guy, honest! It's all a fabrication! Just ask those women who got lashed! That wasn't real pain! It was just a fabrication! It's all lies! Iran is like...Owen Sound! The prettiest little country you could imagine! Those stories about Iran wanting to nuke Israel are all US lies! As Bullwinkle J Moose used to say "It's all just a figamentation of your imagination!" How is bombing countries better? Quote │ _______ [███STOP███]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ :::::::--------------Conservatives beleive ▄▅█FUNDING THIS█▅▄▃▂- - - - - --- -- -- -- -------- Liberals lie I██████████████████] ...◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙'(='.'=)' ⊙
GostHacked Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 I never said I excused the Saudis. YOU implied that I did and then called me down for it! For the record, I have contempt for their human rights record as well. So, if both countries are just as bad, why would Iran get bombs and Saudi Arabia gets money? That's why I champion the idea of ethical oil. If it were up to me we'd never give any Islamic fundamentalist oppressive state another dime for oil! Up till now we haven't had much choice but now with the oilsands we do. Not only should we take it but so should countries like the USA! There are vast untapped amounts of oil underneath the soil here in North America. A good deal of it lies in the middle of the USA and Canada. Why has that not been tapped? Said to be on par or better than what Saudi Arabia has. The rhetoric against Iran is not about human rights, it's not about what they say against Israel, it's now about making life better for Iranians. It's about total control over the area. Many who saw the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq knew full well that Iran was a target down the road. It's really not that hard to see or understand. Do we really need/want another war? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 How is bombing countries better? Iran would never bomb another country. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 That's why I champion the idea of ethical oil. If it were up to me we'd never give any Islamic fundamentalist oppressive state another dime for oil! Up till now we haven't had much choice but now with the oilsands we do. Not only should we take it but so should countries like the USA! Except that a real champion of ethics would withhold our resources from war-mongering nations like the USA, so they can't, you know, war monger. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
August1991 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Do you support Canada going to war against Iran?If you do, I want you to justify it for me Canada has treaty obligations. It should be ready to honour them, or change them now. I know that the NDP once wanted Canada to resign from NATO.Why not? Canada went to war with Iraq, Serbia, Libya, and others for far less years before. What's the big deal about Iran? Just call it more human rights violations and Responsibility to Protect and you will be golden. Hell, Ignatieff can right another book.BC, we were involved in Afghanistan as part of NATO and in Gulf War I as part of UN agreements. We didn't just decide to attack these countries.---- My bigger fear is what to do with countries like Somalia that offer safe-haven for rogue individuals to attack our civilized allies. Then what? Iran is unlikely to attack the US directly. But it might encourage individuals to undertake an attack from another place. Then what? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 important enough to go to war for? like what? Oil, that says it all. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Except that a real champion of ethics would withhold our resources from war-mongering nations like the USA, so they can't, you know, war monger. I agree. Countries like Iran should be free to be regional bullies without the worry of a US invasion/bombing/etc. Cutting off the American's oil supply indeed would help this. Just like cop cars without gas. Think of the fun at the riots! Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Derek L Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 When was that???--- not in the last thousand years 1991 Quote
eyeball Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 Canada has treaty obligations. It should be ready to honour them, or change them now. I know that the NDP once wanted Canada to resign from NATO. Reviewing our alliances and putting them to a referendum would be my preference. I'd also like to see a law passed that requires a national referendum with a super-majority before any Canadian Forces are dispatched to another country. Picking a fight is just too personal a decision to leave up to politicians that are as unaccountable as our's. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 I agree. Bullshit you do. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
olp1fan Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Posted October 17, 2011 1991 you said in the last 15 years, the first gulf war was before that Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 BC, we were involved in Afghanistan as part of NATO and in Gulf War I as part of UN agreements. We didn't just decide to attack these countries. Your reasons are your own....the bombs coming off of CF-18 hardpoints don't look any different. The UN rationalization is not a uniquely Canadian experienece, but even that didn't exist for Kosovo. My bigger fear is what to do with countries like Somalia that offer safe-haven for rogue individuals to attack our civilized allies. Then what? Bomb them, or course! Iran is unlikely to attack the US directly. But it might encourage individuals to undertake an attack from another place. Then what? Ignore it....you're in safe "never attacked" Canada! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olp1fan Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Posted October 17, 2011 Canadian land has been attacked by the Americans plenty of times and also by Nazi Germany during world war two Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 you said in the last 15 years, the first gulf war was before that Canada helped to solicit and enforce UN sanctions against Iraq with military deployments long after the Gulf War. Canadian Forces personnel attached to US commands also aprticipated in the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Derek L Posted October 17, 2011 Report Posted October 17, 2011 you said in the last 15 years, the first gulf war was before that We still honoured our defence commitments during the second Persian excursion. Quote
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