Ontario election debates

[capricorn]

There was a French language debate tonight. Because the PC and NDP party leaders are not proficient in French, each party assigned a rep to the debate. The participants selected by the parties were Gilles Bisson (NDP), Madeleine Meilleur (Lib) and Jason MacDonald (PC). MacDonald is running against Dalton McGuinty in Ottawa South, where the massive Forum Research poll shows McGuinty trailing in the polls; the pollster said that appears to be an anomaly in the poll.

The debate covered health care, education and francophonie. A panel following the debate declared there was no clear winner, match tied.

The best line came when the NDP's Bisson, in an exchange with the Lib's Meilleur (on a question that escapes me), told her to "go ask your federal Liberal cousin Bob Rae". This was the first indication to me that the ONDP is trying to disassociate itself from Rae.

Next up, tomorrow's English debate. Horwath is seen to have a chance at winning the contest.

It has become clear over the past three weeks on the campaign trail that the Ontario NDP head, like most rookie leaders, is unknown to many voters, leaving her fighting to raise her profile.

But once voters get to know her — as a recent poll suggests — they like her. A lot.

As a result, Horwath, 48, has the most to gain heading into Tuesday night’s televised leaders’ debate, said Peter Woolstencroft, professor emeritus of political science at the University of Waterloo.

“It’s her big moment,” he added. “This is Andrea Horwath’s chance to shine.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/26/horwath-potential-debate-winner

[Topaz]

If voters are going to hold the NDP to Bob Rae, then they have to hold Hudak to Harris and of course McGuinty to himself. Rae has said in the past, he did things that weren't right, but he was in a recession and that made things harder to deal with and with the Rae days he didn't want to throw anyone out of work. Now Harris, I don't think he apologized for any thing he did and he ended up quitting before his time was up.

[Wild Bill]

If voters are going to hold the NDP to Bob Rae, then they have to hold Hudak to Harris and of course McGuinty to himself. Rae has said in the past, he did things that weren't right, but he was in a recession and that made things harder to deal with and with the Rae days he didn't want to throw anyone out of work. Now Harris, I don't think he apologized for any thing he did and he ended up quitting before his time was up.

For once we agree, Topaz! I'll judge McGuinty by his own merits any day of the week! :angry:

[Oleg Bach]

The debate showed one clear thing - that there are no leaders to be elected - so in eccence after the election is over we will not really have a government - it will be a free for all - which is good...no party will rule Ontario - and just watch it prosper...cos as I see it - we are headed to a natural non-governed province - thank God for making the candidates totally stupid.

[mentalfloss]

Ontarian Debate Viewers Say McGuinty Narrowly Wins Debate (33%), Horwath (29%) Bests Hudak (25%)

While McGuinty Continues to be Person Who Sounds and Acts Most Like a Premier, Impressions of Horwath Skyrocket, Seen as Leader with Best Policies, Most Likeable

http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5350#.ToL00tGga3V.twitter

New EKOS poll also puts McGuinty ahead of Hudak now:

Lib: 34.9%

PC: 31.4%

NDP: 24.7%

Green: 7.6%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2011

[Moonlight Graham]

While McGuinty Continues to be Person Who Sounds and Acts Most Like a Premier...

Premiers usually act and talk like lying scumbags, so i'd most definitely agree.

[Shady]

Premiers usually act and talk like lying scumbags, so i'd most definitely agree.

Zing!

[mentalfloss]

Premiers usually act and talk like lying scumbags, so i'd most definitely agree.

[capricorn]

I'll judge McGuinty by his own merits any day of the week! :angry:

Well then WB, if you watched the debate last night, you must have appreciated Hudak's comment to Dalton "with all due respect sir, nobody believes you anymore".

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/09/27/ontario-leaders-debate/

Another notable line came from Horwath. When Hudak criticized McGuinty's flip flop on the Missisauga power plant, she interjected "it's because an election is coming".

[mentalfloss]

Well then WB, if you watched the debate last night, you must have appreciated Hudak's comment to Dalton "with all due respect sir, nobody believes you anymore".

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/09/27/ontario-leaders-debate/

Another notable line came from Horwath. When Hudak criticized McGuinty's flip flop on the Missisauga power plant, she interjected "it's because an election is coming".

That's the kind of ad hominem rhetoric that turns voters off.

It's not working out that well for the PCs right now.

Edited September 28, 2011 by mentalfloss

[thepatrickblack]

I heard that in polls where people were asked if Ontario is going in the right direction, most people thought it was. But when asked about MCGuinty, they hated the guy. I'm no big McGuinty supporter, he's got flaws, but I'm wondering if there's too large of a disconnect for Ontarians. Are they so upset about one or two things that they are can't remember what they do like about how Ontario works?

[capricorn]

That's the kind of ad hominem rhetoric that turns voters off.

It doesn't seem to be turning off the media or the blogosphere. In post debate reporting and commenting, you'll find the "rhetoric" you deplore is widespread.

It's not working out that well for the PCs right now.

What. Is the election over?

[Oleg Bach]

I heard that in polls where people were asked if Ontario is going in the right direction, most people thought it was. But when asked about MCGuinty, they hated the guy. I'm no big McGuinty supporter, he's got flaws, but I'm wondering if there's too large of a disconnect for Ontarians. Are they so upset about one or two things that they are can't remember what they do like about how Ontario works?

There are no powerful dynamics at work as far as character and basic intellectual composition of person. They are all light weights. What ever happened to the people that held office or attempt to run for office that were larger than life - charismatic individuals with depth? All we have this time around are nerdish twits with out one original thought between them. Ontario used to be the engine of Canada - Under McGinty it is just a little animal farm with early childhood educators...creepy homosexuals - asexuals - common deviates....and watered down feminists who all struggle to be the top puppy. Have only seen a picture of the NDP candidate and she looks okay - and sounds all right - might as well vote for her because she looks like she might be good in bed...and that is not much of a reason to put someone in office - it's really distressing that we have created a society of compliant and politically correct weasils - we are doomed.

[Wild Bill]

Well then WB, if you watched the debate last night, you must have appreciated Hudak's comment to Dalton "with all due respect sir, nobody believes you anymore".

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/09/27/ontario-leaders-debate/

Another notable line came from Horwath. When Hudak criticized McGuinty's flip flop on the Missisauga power plant, she interjected "it's because an election is coming".

Capricorn, you know me better than that! When I said I'd judge him on his own merits, who says I'd judge him kindly?

You may recall that more than once here on this board I have stated that after he denied the town of Caledonia the protection of Law and applied it racially and unequally against protesters of either side, I would sooner vote for a pedophile than McGuinty! I believe a pedophile would likely have a better sense of ethics and responsibility. McGuinty makes Machiavelli look like Bob Rae!

[PIK]

One thing that I have not heard anyone mention, was the story horwath told about pouring beer in a bar for her friends and she said a lady at the end of the bar was telling her how she is having trouble paying the bills with kids in school. Question, What was the lady doing in a bar,if she can't pay the bills. I can barely afford beer store beer ,let alone bar beer. Now I thought she did well, but to many stories. Hudak put on a better show then I expected and McGuinty, just lied thru his teeth all night, and would not look anybody in the eye.

[charter.rights]

Capricorn, you know me better than that! When I said I'd judge him on his own merits, who says I'd judge him kindly?

You may recall that more than once here on this board I have stated that after he denied the town of Caledonia the protection of Law and applied it racially and unequally against protesters of either side, I would sooner vote for a pedophile than McGuinty! I believe a pedophile would likely have a better sense of ethics and responsibility. McGuinty makes Machiavelli look like Bob Rae!

He had nothing to do with directing the police in Caledonia. The OPP were in charge of policing operations.

You have no ethics or responsibility! If you did the truth would not be so elusive.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

It doesn't seem to be turning off the media or the blogosphere. In post debate reporting and commenting, you'll find the "rhetoric" you deplore is widespread.

What. Is the election over?

I watched the debate on multiple sources.

All had the same poll of who won the debate in the interactive chat.

All had Dalton more than 10 points above Hudak.

Yet all I see today is commentary against that theory. Interesting.

[capricorn]

Capricorn, you know me better than that! When I said I'd judge him on his own merits, who says I'd judge him kindly?

That's exactly why I thought you'd share Hudak's assessment that nobody believes McGuinty anymore.

[capricorn]

I watched the debate on multiple sources.

All had the same poll of who won the debate in the interactive chat.

All had Dalton more than 10 points above Hudak.

Why are you talking about winning or losing the debate? I never raised the matter. You're just upset because Hudak and Horwath scored some points. Your "ad hominem rhetoric" theory sounds like sour grapes.

Yet all I see today is commentary against that theory. Interesting.

Where.

[Bob]

Watching the debate was a depressing experience, it was like watching tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum, along with teedle-fem. It was three leftists "debating" each other with talking points and partial speeches. The fact that Tim Hudak is labeling himself as a "conservative" is utterly nauseating. No serious chiding of the e-health scandal (as if transcribing documents to electronic format and harmonizing communications between various healthcare providers is either an expensive or long-term project). No serious criticism of the disgusting identity politics being played by McGuinty with his ten-thousand dollar bribe in order to prioritize new arrivals to Canada. When McGuinty started using his code language in order to portray Hudak as some sort of anti-immigrant or racist man, I wanted to jump through the screen and rip the premier's head off. It's the same disgusting rhetoric we always see in these forums, where such accusations are the norm. Don't remember the name of the NDP woman, but she stayed true to NDP form when she started playing games about "freezing tuition" (in other words, more spending as costs for the delivery of education continually rise like everything else the government controls) as if students in Ontario are being destroyed with debt. She then showed her ideological commitment to socialism by refusing to cede any possibility of introduction of market solutions to address our healthcare shortage problems. She actually used the term "profit" in some sort of derogatory manner, pandering to her idiot base of socialists and communists.

If I was a massively ignorant moron who knew nothing about reality, I'd probably prefer McGuinty as he's the most telegenic, charismatic, and has plenty of "facts" and "statistics" to add the illusion of credibility. Since I am not an ignorant moron who lives in the world of fantasy, I saw right through his lies that he muttered with every breath he took.

Basically, that "debate" was a perfect example of why Ontario will continue its descent into self-destruction. Keep spending more than you raise. Keep interfering with the economy and crippling growth. Keep pandering to ethnic, racial, and religious minorities (two from a handful of questions were from "Muhammad" and "Bilal"). Spend us into oblivion and keep importing third-world trash while blaming healthcare problems on "six-figure salaries" or hospital executives, and not unions. Real conservatism is dead in Ontario.

Oh, and who selected McGuinty's glasses? They were terrible. And Hudak's tie? These are the morons vying for the premiership...

Edited September 28, 2011 by Bob

[Wild Bill]

That's exactly why I thought you'd share Hudak's assessment that nobody believes McGuinty anymore.

Sadly Capricorn, many folks do! They lead with their hearts and not their heads, running on faith and not evidence or reason.

They'll re-elect McGuinty and when the lights go out they still won't blame him! It will either be simple bad luck or all the fault of Mike Harris.

[capricorn]

Sadly Capricorn, many folks do! They lead with their hearts and not their heads, running on faith and not evidence or reason.

WB, I know what you're saying. Here's my two cents about why things may be different this time. Look at the increase of viewership of the debates over the last election. It is astounding.

Last night, a combined audience of 1.45 million viewers watched the Ontario provincial election debate on all networks (CTV, CTV News Channel, CP24, CBC, CBC News Network, Global, CHCH, Sun News Network and TVO). In Ontario alone, it was the most-watched program of the night with 1.39 million viewers. Once again, viewers made CTV the news outlet of choice for ongoing coverage of the Oct. 6 Ontario General Election, with 611,000 total viewers, more than double the audience of both CBC (248,000) and Global (225,000).

The 90-minute debate had more than twice as many viewers as the 2007 debate on CTV (263,000). More than 1.7 million unique viewers watched some or all of the debate, an increase of 142% compared to 2007 (724,000).

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2011/28/c7541.html

If Ontarians in general were happy with the status quo, why did so many more tune in than last time? The answer may be that Ontario voters crave change and the debate offered a chance to size up the leaders. I sense voter turn out will also increase. IMO the Liberals will be the losers as a result. My optimism that the PC's will win the election went up a few notches. We'll see.

[Shwa]

Sadly Capricorn, many folks do! They lead with their hearts and not their heads, running on faith and not evidence or reason.

They'll re-elect McGuinty and when the lights go out they still won't blame him! It will either be simple bad luck or all the fault of Mike Harris.

LOFL! Bug Bunny supplies the

to this post.

"...when the lights go out..."

LOFL!

[scribblet]

Sadly Capricorn, many folks do! They lead with their hearts and not their heads, running on faith and not evidence or reason.

They'll re-elect McGuinty and when the lights go out they still won't blame him! It will either be simple bad luck or all the fault of Mike Harris.

Now that is so true... no matter what McGuinty does or did, it's all Harris's fault

Sadly, Ontario seems to be accepting that lying and scams are okay, so if McGuinty is reelected he will take it as a mandate to continue lying, raising taxes, destroying lives with windmills and might even elevate David Suzuki to cabinet

[capricorn]

no matter what McGuinty does or did, it's all Harris's fault

McGuinty seeks doctor pay freeze in bid to rein in Ontario spending

Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty is calling on the province’s doctors to accept a two-year pay freeze when their contract expires next March, even though nurses and other health-care workers who bargain collectively have won wage increases.

Ontario’s approximately 24,000 doctors are among the last public sector workers to have a contract expire since the McGuinty government made wage restraints the centrepiece of its 2010 budget. But arbitrators have all but ignored Mr. McGuinty’s calls for a voluntary, two-year wage freeze for public-sector workers who bargain collectively.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ontario-election/mcguinty-seeks-doctor-pay-freeze-in-bid-to-rein-in-ontario-spending/article2184908/

“I am convinced that they understand where we find ourselves at this point in time,” Mr. McGuinty told The Globe and Mail editorial board on Thursday. The doctors’ current agreement, he said, provides “fairly significant” fee increases and is “a little bit out of whack with where we are.”

Ya think Dalton? Or will you give them a secret pay raise?

If this comes to pass, Dalton won't be able to blame Harris for chasing doctors out of Ontario.

Edited September 29, 2011 by capricorn