Ontario employees sent memo about "sensitivity" to Muslims.

[Scotty]

It's funny how people can bitch about Canada a country which, by any standard, has done a good job if integrating its Muslim population (as has the U.S.) and claim that harsher measures are needed when those countries that have taken such measures have far greater problems with assimilation and immigration than we do.

But that isn't the case here. Europe, and France and England in particular, have actually gone far further towards accommodations and compromises for Muslims and minorities than Canada has. There laws against discrimination or offensive behavior based on race or religion are FAR more stringent than ours, as are their efforts at adjusting their institutions and behaviour so as to not offend. The results speak for themselves. Complete failure.

So when I see people moving in that direction, however well-intentioned, I look at Europe and wonder why, given those methods failed there, people think they will have a better effect here. No one ever really answers that.

[Scotty]

Exactly. You take the bad with the good.

Incidentally, nobody ever seems to take note of the positive differences that many of these immigrants bring: work ethic, strong family ties and so on. Instead we get these quibbles about notes suggesting that we be sensitive

What personal traits immigrants bring depends on the immigrants. For every good trait there's probably two or three I don't like.

Seriously, is that enough to get upset over ? If you don't like immigration then please go back to your Conservative Party meetings with your beefs and tell them - maybe they'll pay attention to you.

Neat. First you diminish the concerns of everyone as unimportant, then you tell them to shut up and go complain to 'your Conservative Party' about it. And here I thought this was a discussion forum.

[Scotty]

I think it's called being polite. We had a Jehovah's Witness in our company once, so we stopped holding birthday parties for the whole office too, and instead had a more discreet celebration. Individuals could say 'happy birthday' to the person. Everyone was ok with it, and we could include this person in group celebrations.

How do you feel about that ? Does that compel you to stand and scream and to throw your chair across the room ?

We had a Jehovah's Witness in our group once. We continued to have birthday celebrations. We just didn't invite her, or pass the birthday card to her to sign. If her goofy religion says it's a sin to celebrate a birthday or whatever, well, no one suggested she go against it. But we sure weren't going to all stop celebrating birthdays, one of the things which produced a great family type atmosphere among the group, because of her. We also continued to have Christmas lunches, etc. Was she excluded? Sure, but it was a self-exclusion.

Sensitivity is nice, but stopping a whole group from taking part in a pleasant and enjoyable activity because of one religious nut is idiotic. And I don't care what the religion is.

[Michael Hardner]

I guess you didn't read the details of my post.

[Scotty]

Good idea. Since they CLEARLY DO outperform then it should be easy for them to make up their minds.

Well, I can't say I'm all that impressed by their work performance as taxi drivers or cleaners - the only two groups of Muslim workers I'm personally familiar with.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Scotty

[Scotty]

Thanks for offering to deport me.

What about refusing people to take off religious holidays ? This has caused me hardship at times in the past, but since I value team members I absolutely provide for it. Would you be 'offended' if I refused you a religious holiday off ?

So do these employees also get statutory holidays off? In other words, do they get more holidays than other employees?

[Scotty]

The point was a counter that all poor areas of TO are Muslims filled according to Harvey.

They clearly are not. bob s dumb agenda aside

Ask about Ottawa's slums, why don'tcha...

[Michael Hardner]

So do these employees also get statutory holidays off? In other words, do they get more holidays than other employees?

No. But you have to schedule around such holidays too.

[Scotty]

No. But you have to schedule around such holidays too.

I don't understand how that works. If they work on, say, Christmas instead of their own holiday, you still have to, by law, pay them double time don't you?

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think it works that way. Christmas is a holiday for everyone.

[Peter F]

Our perspective is simple. Every should be treated equally. Of course the leftists use terms like "equality" as buzzwords, because what they really want is to give special treatment to particular groups that they are enamored with as they view them as "disadvantaged" groups that need their hugs and kisses in order to integrate into society. The leftist is like the girlfriend that goes from abusive relationship to abusive relationship, constantly looking for another ethnic group or minority to "assist". Apparently Muslims need some "sensitivity" to be extended from the rest of us at the workplace in order to make it through their month-long fast. Better go eat your lunch in the bathroom in order nor to make Muhammad salivate in the lunchroom while he reads Al-Jazeera headlines on his iPhone.

Remember folks, if you want everyone to be held to the same standards an be treated equally, you're either bigoted, racist, intolerant, or Islamphobic. Only the enlightened, considerate, compassionate and well-mannered leftist have enough acuity to hide their foods from hungry fasting Muslims who don't want to see food during Ramadan, to hide their disgust with the body odour of hijab and burka draped Muslim women on hot summer days, and be comfortable with extra time off being given for breaks to Muslims who "need" to go pray in the boardroom without paying any sort of rental fee.

Jeebus, what a lying piece of dung you are. You want everyone treated equally? My ass. You want each and every muslim shipped out of the country based on what? Oh yes, thier religious beliefs. And you're not an islamophobe?

Your a fuckin joke.

[eyeball]

Jeebus, what a lying piece of dung you are. You want everyone treated equally? My ass. You want each and every muslim shipped out of the country based on what? Oh yes, thier religious beliefs. And you're not an islamophobe?

Your a fuckin joke.

I'd like to report Peter F's post to the moderators.

He deserves an extra star on his ratings.

[charter.rights]

That's the way Peter. You go girl and try to fix that intolerance by slapping it with more intolerance!

[Jack Weber]

Jeebus, what a lying piece of dung you are. You want everyone treated equally? My ass. You want each and every muslim shipped out of the country based on what? Oh yes, thier religious beliefs. And you're not an islamophobe?

Your a fuckin joke.

He's not an Islamohobe...

He's Bobby Beginite...Jewish Supremacist!!!

[Shwa]

Ask about Ottawa's slums, why don'tcha...

There are more white people in Ottawa's slums than Muslims, don't be a doofus about it.

[Black Dog]

So, according to Bob, immigrants shouldn't be allowed unless they are willing to work and coexist with their racial and cultural betters. And if they are willing to work, they should not wear religious garb or expect their co-workers to tolerate any signs of religiosity or make any concessions whatsoever to same.

In Bob's pluralistic, freedom-loving society, everyone is free to be exactly the same.

Also interesting that, for all Bob's whinging about social-service sucking immigrants with backwards religious beliefs and goofy outfits tearing apart the fabric of our society, he's positively sanguine about immigrants that meet the same criteria when they are immigrants to his other home country.

[Shady]

So, according to Bob, immigrants shouldn't be allowed unless they are willing to work and coexist with their racial and cultural betters. And if they are willing to work, they should not wear religious garb or expect their co-workers to tolerate any signs of religiosity or make any concessions whatsoever to same.

In Bob's pluralistic, freedom-loving society, everyone is free to be exactly the same.

Also interesting that, for all Bob's whinging about social-service sucking immigrants with backwards religious beliefs and goofy outfits tearing apart the fabric of our society, he's positively sanguine about immigrants that meet the same criteria when they are immigrants to his other home country.

Look, believe whatever you want to believe in terms of religion. Just don't push your religion on me, and ask me to conform to it. It's called seperation of church and state.

[Shwa]

Look, believe whatever you want to believe in terms of religion. Just don't push your religion on me, and ask me to conform to it. It's called seperation of church and state.

Not in Canada it isn't. So pony up your tax dollars for the separate school board.

[Shady]

Not in Canada it isn't. So pony up your tax dollars for the separate school board.

One chooses to do that. But if you don't like current law, change it. There is no law mandating I submit to the beliefs and practices of Muslims. Once again, they can believe and practice what they want to. Just don't ask me to conform to it. Stop pushing your religion on me.

[Black Dog]

Look, believe whatever you want to believe in terms of religion. Just don't push your religion on me, and ask me to conform to it.

You keep saying this, but no one is actually having religion pushed on them here. You're not being asked to give anything up or take anything on. There's no evidence the suggestions contained within the memo are anything but just that: suggestions.

It's called seperation of church and state.

Would that be the same seperation of church and state you don't think exists?

[Guest American Woman]

Context. Prevalence of the issue. That kind of thing.

Seems to me if not everyone does it, it would be even more important to remind people to be sensitive to those who do.

I'm just providing personal reasons for why I think this is happening. I have no proof that there are more people fasting for Ramadan in the public service than there are people fasting all day for Lent, but it seems quite likely to me. Do you disagree ?

I never said a thing about people fasting all day for Lent, so figure it out for yourself.

What feud ? I'm just having a discussion with Bob - I have no personal feelings with him either way. I just wanted to point out that both discussions crossed paths. I would actually defer to Bob on this topic, as he seems to know more than me on this, yes.

Since I haven't read your entire discussion with Bob, I had no idea what you were referring to - and still don't. That's my point. I did see you threatening to report him - with and a few back and forth posts about that - so that feud. Seemed beyond "just having a discussion with Bob" to me.

I don't have a big disagreement with your post, but the Lent example is off-base from my experience. This argument will likely end soon as I doubt either of us can provide evidence either way - assuming that you doubt my assertion that more people are fasting for Ramadan in the Ontario civil service than are fasting for Lent.

Again, I never said such a thing. Are you able to respond to what I actually say? I'm starting to doubt it. You either overlook what I say or change it into something it's not. But yeah, this "argument" is ending right now - as it's a complete waste of time responding to idiotic claims that I never made.

Edited September 28, 2011 by American Woman

[Michael Hardner]

Seems to me if not everyone does it, it would be even more important to remind people to be sensitive to those who do.

I would guess that it basically never happens, so it's not needed IMO.

Since I haven't read your entire discussion with Bob, I had no idea what you were referring to - and still don't. That's my point. I did see you threatening to report him - with and a few back and forth posts about that - so that feud. Seemed beyond "just having a discussion with Bob" to me.

I don't think I threatened to report him. Doesn't sound like me.

Your quote from above:

Again, I never said such a thing. Are you able to respond to what I actually say? I'm starting to doubt it. You either overlook what I say or change it into something it's not. But yeah, this "argument" is ending right now - as it's a complete waste of time responding to idiotic claims that I never made.

This was your post:

As has been pointed out, memos aren't circulated reminding workers that some Christians have given up this or that for Lent, so please keep said food items out of meeting luncheons

Again, my response to that point - whomever initially made it - is that there isn't a requirement there.

[Oleg Bach]

I don't want to be sensitized to anything against my will - Muslims if they are so faithful and good can take care of themselves just fine - Just like the idea of Allah the all mighty - does not need radical Islam to kill in the name of the NOT so powerful god..If Muslims are truely people of faith - let their faith and works protect them - to give protection to the Muslims is to insult them.

[Bob]

So, according to Bob, immigrants shouldn't be allowed unless they are willing to work and coexist with their racial and cultural betters. And if they are willing to work, they should not wear religious garb or expect their co-workers to tolerate any signs of religiosity or make any concessions whatsoever to same.

In Bob's pluralistic, freedom-loving society, everyone is free to be exactly the same.

Also interesting that, for all Bob's whinging about social-service sucking immigrants with backwards religious beliefs and goofy outfits tearing apart the fabric of our society, he's positively sanguine about immigrants that meet the same criteria when they are immigrants to his other home country.

I never mentioned racial superiority, I mentioned cultural superiority. And I will continue to repeat that and stand by it. If people who subscribe to inferior and incompatible cultural values continue to be imported, we'll continue to see the problems associated with such political correctness. As far as religious garb, well, I'm not dumb enough to think that someone dressed as a desert nomad has anything of value to offer our society. Your statement boils down to the assertion that everyone who isn't dressed like a desert nomad is essentially the same. As far as "tolerance" of religiosity, people can do whatever they want, as long as they adhere to all the same expectations and standards as everyone else. I don't care what religion someone identifies with, but don't send me some email on their behalf telling me to be "sensitive" to their month-long hunger due to their choice to fast during the day. Don't tell me to not vomit when I see people washing their feet in the sink before their extra breaks to pray to Allah. Don't tell me not to advise Fatima to wear better deodorant when she's wrapped up like some cavewoman on a hot July day just as I would Rick who bikes to work.

If you want to deflect to Israel, another subject you pretend to have familiarity with, let's do it. I am absolutely opposed to Israel's pandering to ultra-religious in Israel, as well. They're not nearly as bad as the Arabs/Muslims, of course, but the problem is there. I am never inconsistent.

[guyser]

And I will continue to repeat that and stand by it.

We'd expect no less from you.

If people who subscribe to inferior and incompatible cultural values continue to be imported, we'll continue to see the problems associated with such political correctness.

Extend that to the Hassidic's?

As far as "tolerance" of religiosity, people can do whatever they want, as long as they adhere to all the same expectations and standards as everyone else.

Well, yeah, thats not in question

I don't care what religion someone identifies with, but don't send me some email on their behalf telling me to be "sensitive" to their month-long hunger due to their choice to fast during the day.

They didnt, relax , you arent important.

Don't tell me not to advise Fatima to wear better deodorant when she's wrapped up like some cavewoman on a hot July day just as I would Rick who bikes to work.

Muslim women wear furs and loin cloths? Wow....gots to gets me some!

Its does seem weird when I rode the Bathurst bus on hot summer days and these guys with long black trench coats and dark suits (no tie) with hats and long black pants would get on.

Sorry, what was the point? Some religious dress seems silly, but hey , they manage and who really cares, except for someone who is blind to his own quirks because he is filled with rage of others quirks

Edited September 28, 2011 by guyser