Occupy Wall Street Sept 17 2011

[jacee]

I think both Quebec city and Vancouver are handling the “99%ers” properly……..Ask them politely to remove all their inherent hazards at their campsites……..If they do remove their “comforts” certainly some protestors resolve will weaken and their numbers will drop further…..If they don’t comply with the cities request to comply with safety and civic by-laws, they further demonize themselves in the court of public opinion………..To be quite honest, I’m surprised Vancouver mayor Robertson is relenting on his position to remove the campers………Now why would that be? He’s in an election cycle and ~75% of the public want the “99%ers” gone.

Both cities “tactics” will prove to be effective, since whatever the response from the campers is, it’s both damaging……….If I was the “99%ers” I’d pack up the tents, and organize “rotating demonstrations” around the city instead of the their ineffective campsite.

Well if that's what you think then you should do it!

I think you have to admit that they've got your attention.

[Guest Derek L]

Well if that's what you think then you should do it!

I think you have to admit that they've got your attention.

Slow news week?……Joking aside, in the coming weeks, I hope they just leave peacefully and we don’t see the downtown core destroyed again like the Stanley Cup riots…….When they are cleared out, I honestly don’t want to see members of the police and the 99%ers hurt……..For lessons learned, I hope the Occupiers learn the only way to achieve change is from within………patience is key……..think long game……..I supported the Reform party since the early 90s…..We started grassroots and now look at us……If this portion of the public wants to implement “change”, copy our playbook………

[Shady]

The problem has been identified as a rapidly increasing accumulation of wealth by the richEST 1% of Canadians while the middle class is decimated by joblessness and debt.

You're connecting the two which aren't connected. People accumulate wealth by working and producing revenue. As long as they pay their taxes and obey the law, it isn't your business. And you're not enitled to somebody else's private property.

GET A JOB!!!!!

[CPCFTW]

I just don't understand what the protesters want

And for a better understanding of why those companies pay such low taxes, please refer to page 11 of the ctj report:

http://www.ctj.org/corporatetaxdodgers/CorporateTaxDodgersReport.pdf

Accelerated depreciation, and stock options compensation.

Most big corporations give their executives (and sometimes other employees) options to buy the company’s stock at a favorable price in the future. When those options are exercised, companies can take a tax deduction for the difference between what the employees pay for the stock and what it’s worth (while employees report this difference as taxable wages).

Stock options are taxed in the hands of the executives. Other than the optics to hippies, what's the difference if I pay $0 in taxes, but my CEOs pay $200 million taxes on stock option income, or if I pay $200 million in taxes and my CEOS pay $0 stock option income taxes?

The tax laws generally allow companies to write off their capital investments considerably faster than the assets actually wear out. This “accelerated depreciation” is technically a tax deferral, but so long as a company continues to invest, the tax deferral tends to be indefinite.

"So long as the company continues to invest"... Heaven forbid we encourage companies to continue to invest in capital to increase productivity.

Edited November 4, 2011 by CPCFTW

[jacee]

Slow news week?……Joking aside, in the coming weeks, I hope they just leave peacefully and we don’t see the downtown core destroyed again like the Stanley Cup riots…….When they are cleared out, I honestly don’t want to see members of the police and the 99%ers hurt……..For lessons learned, I hope the Occupiers learn the only way to achieve change is from within………patience is key……..think long game……..I supported the Reform party since the early 90s…..We started grassroots and now look at us……If this portion of the public wants to implement “change”, copy our playbook………

If you think Harper cares about grassroots Reform values, you haven't been paying attention: He's corporate bought and sold all the way. He only cares about power and he gets that only by kowtowing to them.

It looks like the Vancouver Occupy camp is dug in and the mayor is waffling between removal by force and his political future.

[blueblood]

Check out this awesome picture of the encampment in Vancouver. The occupiers used skids to set up a 1900's style sidewalk system between the tents.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Fire+chief+orders+Occupy+Vancouver+tarps+removed/5653896/story.html

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Fire+chief+orders+Occupy+Vancouver+tarps+removed/5653896/story.html

Holy Clint Eastwood it's like the wild west all over again. We have lawlessness, drug tents, skid row, mud all over the place. All we're missing is horses and gun fights.

[jacee]

“The system is concentrating wealth in fewer and fewer hands. It’s not a sustainable trajectory,” she said.

In a study last December, Yalnizyan found that the richest one per cent of Canadians capture a whopping 32 per cent of all income growth That’s a far bigger slice than even in the 1920s when the wealthiest one per cent took in 17 per cent of income gains.

“Canada’s elite are breaking new frontiers in ncome inequality,” she wrote in the study“Nothing in the course of the previous century resembles what has occurred in the last generation.”

The excesses of the 1920s eventually resulted n the 1929-32 stock market crash, which ushered in two decades of depression and world war.

In response to the 1930s Depression, governments implemented new social programs and better union rights that buoyed ncomes of the middle class and lower-income people

They also raised taxes on the wealthy and tightened financial and securities regulations to curb market speculation Income inequality quickly fell to modest levels where it remained for the next 50 years. Between the 1930s and ’70s, the wealthiest one per cent of Canadians saw their share of total income gains remain flat at a tame five to 10 per cent. But this great postwar social pact started to unravel in the 1980s.

That’s when many Western governments began to cut social programs and deregulate industries such as the financial sector, allowing banks to effectively police themselves. They also cut tax rates dramatically for the well-to-do. In 1948, the top marginal tax rate n Canada was 80 per cent. Today, the top rate is 43 per cent. Meanwhile, wages for the average Canadian stagnated as many corporations moved manufacturing jobs to low-wage countries and unionization rates fell

All this was good news for the bank accounts of well-heeled Canadians. In the 1980s, the richest one per cent of Canadians captured 11 per cent of total income growth In the 1990s and 2000s, their portion shot into record territory, climbing to 32 per cent.

Some economists call it the “great u-turn.” Yalnizyan calls it the start of “Canada’s neo- gilded age” – a throwback to the “gilded age” of a century ago when robber barons and tycoons enjoyed opulence and wild excess

Today’s new gilded age saw “a flip from decades of steady declines in income nequality to its opposite: a steady increase in nequality, in good times and bad,” she said in her study

“Economic growth no longer paved the path to widespread prosperity. But for a select few, good times never seemed so good.”

I think it's very fortunate that the OCCUPY movement has provided an organized, democratically structured physical focus for the inevitable civil unrest that results from the current excesses of income inequality perpetrated by the 1% on the rest of us.

Cos it's not going to be pretty.

For the wealthy who are not the 1% but ride on the coattails of them ... you have the most to lose when the real financial implosion happens, and keeping your head down and hoping the protesters will go away and the problems with them ... just isn't going to be enough.

We need your voices NOW, before it's too late.

Edited November 5, 2011 by jacee

[Shady]

In a study last December, Yalnizyan found that the richest one per cent of Canadians capture a whopping 32 per cent of all income growth

Nobody "captures" wealth. Wealth is earned through various types of labour. And you're not entitled to anyone else's private property in which they earn through legal means.

GET A JOB!!!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

....For the wealthy who are not the 1% but ride on the coattails of them ... you have the most to lose when the real financial implosion happens, and keeping your head down and hoping the protesters will go away and the problems with them ... just isn't going to be enough.

Uh-oh....this is a different tune than before. What happened to the solidarity of the entire 99%, and pretending to speak for same? I would rather have it all implode than cave in to the demands of the socialist rag-tag mob demanding my money anyway.

[dre]

Nobody "captures" wealth. Wealth is earned through various types of labour. And you're not entitled to anyone else's private property in which they earn through legal means.

GET A JOB!!!!!

Nobody has a problem with any of that. But theres more than one way to make money. THeres productive labor, then theres investment. Both are obviously extremely important to the function of our society.

The probably is that the capital allocated to each of those activities has swung away from productive labor towards investment labor. Its the easiest period in history to put money to work for you, but inflation adjusted wages have been stagnant for decades now.

That math is pretty simple. If capital allocation between these two sectors is not rebalanced then we will end with a country where theres a small, monied aristocracy and 30 million peasants.

Wealthy people are not the problem, the problem is that the system is out of wack. Theres been haves and have-nots for a hundred years, and nobody took to the streets. The anger by some of these protesters towards large productive corporations is natural but its misplaced. They SHOULD be angry at the government and the financial sector. Not the corporations that have made a lot of money providing us the things we want, under the existing rules of the game.

[dre]

Uh-oh....this is a different tune than before. What happened to the solidarity of the entire 99%, and pretending to speak for same? I would rather have it all implode than cave in to the demands of the socialist rag-tag mob demanding my money anyway.

What happened to the solidarity of the entire 99%

Its a metaphor... can you really not see that? And it depends what you mean by solidarity. Clearly the protesters themselves are a tiny percentage of the population. But if you look at polling data a large majority shares their concerns even if they arent out on the streets.

Only 23% of Americans trust the financial system that these people are protesting. The lowest number in history. Theres fairly broad consensus that the system is broken.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/only-23-trust-us-financial-system-poll-2011-10-23

[bush_cheney2004]

Its a metaphor... can you really not see that? And it depends what you mean by solidarity. Clearly the protesters themselves are a tiny percentage of the population. But if you look at polling data a large majority shares their concerns even if they arent out on the streets.

No it's not...clearly the "wealthy" segment of the so called 99% are being extolled (actually threatened) with the loss of such "privilege" if they do not support the disgruntled rabble far below on the income/wealth curve. This undermines the entire concept of solidarity against the "1%".

Only 23% of Americans trust the financial system that these people are protesting. The lowest number in history. Theres fairly broad consensus that the system is broken.

So what...I can dig up polls for any number of issues at any point in time. Nothing magic about today's bitchfests about money. Recall the 1987 film Wall Street...this is not a new prevalent attitude or opinion. Hell, when would one ever expect the rich or financial system to poll in high numbers amongst the general public?

Edited November 5, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[jacee]

Nobody "captures" wealth.

... except the wealthiEST 1%

Wealth is earned through various types of labour. And you're not entitled to anyone else's private property in which they earn through legal means.

GET A JOB!!!!!

Had one for 35 years. Done now.

Edited November 5, 2011 by jacee

[cybercoma]

Nobody "captures" wealth. Wealth is earned through various types of labour. And you're not entitled to anyone else's private property in which they earn through legal means.

GET A JOB!!!!!

So only 1% of the population are doing any type of labour? The rest of the top 20% saw no increase, while the majority of people saw decreases. Does that mean they're doing negative labour?

[cybercoma]

Nobody has a problem with any of that. But theres more than one way to make money. THeres productive labor, then theres investment. Both are obviously extremely important to the function of our society.

The probably is that the capital allocated to each of those activities has swung away from productive labor towards investment labor. Its the easiest period in history to put money to work for you, but inflation adjusted wages have been stagnant for decades now.

That math is pretty simple. If capital allocation between these two sectors is not rebalanced then we will end with a country where theres a small, monied aristocracy and 30 million peasants.

Wealthy people are not the problem, the problem is that the system is out of wack. Theres been haves and have-nots for a hundred years, and nobody took to the streets. The anger by some of these protesters towards large productive corporations is natural but its misplaced. They SHOULD be angry at the government and the financial sector. Not the corporations that have made a lot of money providing us the things we want, under the existing rules of the game.

It's easier for Shady to just think that everyone is lazy and doesn't have a job, even though unemployment is only 7.3%.

[jacee]

It' BANK TRANSFER DAY !!

Move your business to a Credit Union!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hate-your-bank-bank-transfer-day-is-saturday-2011-11-04

Meanwhile, an estimated 650,000 consumers have joined credit unions nationwide since Sept. 29, according to a statement on Thursday from the Credit Union National Association or CUNA, a credit-union advocacy group. That’s the day Bank of America announced its debit-card fee.

Credit unions saw savings-account deposits grow by $4.5 billion in that time, “likely from the new members and existing members shifting their funds,” CUNA said.

Cool!

[Guest Derek L]

Uh-oh....this is a different tune than before. What happened to the solidarity of the entire 99%, and pretending to speak for same? I would rather have it all implode than cave in to the demands of the socialist rag-tag mob demanding my money anyway.

As would I………Not too worried though……I’ve got more guns in my basement, then the entire occupy movement in British Columbia

[bush_cheney2004]

As would I………Not too worried though……I’ve got more guns in my basement, then the entire occupy movement in British Columbia

Then this scene is just for you...enjoy Reba!

[Guest Derek L]

Then this scene is just for you...enjoy Reba!

Not much of a stretch........I like Reba’s shotgun…..looks like either a Remy 870 or a Mossberg 500.…..I got both…..I also saw my Mini-14 & Remington 742 on his wall……And think I saw an SKS……And the wheel guns, I’m sure he’s got .357 amongst his collection…..As I’m sure he has a 1911.……..Truth be told, I think giant sand worms pose a greater threat than the “99%ers”.......

[bush_cheney2004]

Not much of a stretch........I like Reba’s shotgun…..looks like either a Remy 870 or a Mossberg 500.…..I got both…..

Damn...then I guess you are ready for them. I like when she barks, "Magazine"!

[Guest Derek L]

Damn...then I guess you are ready for them. I like when she barks, "Magazine"!

No elephant gun……But I’m thinking of buying the brother in-laws Remington 700 Ultra Mag

[jacee]

As would I………Not too worried though……I’ve got more guns in my basement, then the entire occupy movement in British Columbia

Is that a threat?

Maybe a visit from police would be helpful to clarify ...

[Guest Derek L]

Is that a threat?

Maybe a visit from police would be helpful to clarify ...

Not a threat at all…..Remember, I’m not the one “threatening civil disobedience” and refusing to acknowledge law enforcement……..I haven’t called for revolution…….A simple illustration of how laughable those that are indeed calling for it are.

[Guest Derek L]

Not a threat at all…..Remember, I’m not the one “threatening civil disobedience” and refusing to acknowledge law enforcement……..I haven’t called for revolution…….A simple illustration of how laughable those that are indeed calling for it are.

And I'll add, as I've stated Numerous times, I hope they just leave………I don’t want to see a repeat of The Stanley Cup riots or G20 protests, where police officers were injured, personal property was destroyed and I even don’t want see the morons causing it to get their skulls cracked………..But, if they refuse to comply with the law, and continue to put the public at risk, I won’t have zero sympathy for them if force is required to remove them……..Do you think Canadians that hear their rhetoric about “overthrowing” the government/upper income earners, and has you suggest, those that support them (Myself?) don’t feel threatened?

It’s pretty lousy feeling for a parents to not allow their teenagers to go “hang-out” along the Granville Mall on sunny Saturday with their friends for fear of them getting caught in another Stanley Cup like riot!!!!!

[jacee]

Not a threat at all…..Remember, I’m not the one “threatening civil disobedience” and refusing to acknowledge law enforcement……..I haven’t called for revolution…….A simple illustration of how laughable those that are indeed calling for it are.

You are the one getting inordinately bent out of shape about the protest, and now rattling your gun collection.

One can't ignore such warning signs.

There are crazies out there and you could well be one.

I can assure you that any threats of violence against protesters will receive full attention of police.

That is one of the concerns of police, of course, that the protesters are unprotected from any looneytoons who think their 'god' is telling them the protesters are evil and deserve death.

Frankly, some of your posts come close to that line.

Edited November 6, 2011 by jacee