Occupy Wall Street Sept 17 2011

[jacee]

Canada's Valuable Water Is Not for Dumping Toxic Wastes

It is illegal under the Fisheries Act to dump toxic material into fish- bearing waters. However, in 2002 the government amended the Act’s Metal Mining Effluent Regulation(MMER) to allow lakes and other freshwater bodies to be re-classified as “tailings impoundment areas,” thereby allowing mining companies to get around the genera prohibition

[dre]

Or what about the fact that it pays most of the salaries that are earned in the world?

And how many of these "oppressed" minority groups treat women, animals or the environment well?

Wages and salaries are funded by the demand for goods and services. This demand was generating commerce a long time before the emergence of government lobbying mega corporations. Linking the modern day corporation with wages is dubious at best because you have to assume that in the absense of mega corporations all this demand for goods and services wouldnt exist. If there were a thousand small proprietorships on the supply side of a market instead of two or three mega corporations theres no reason to believe there would be less jobs or lower wages.

[jacee]

Ivanhoe Philippines, Inc. has asked the Philippine Mines and Geosciences Bureau for a "withdrawal of the company's exploration permit applications (...) in Tablas Island."

In a letter dated September 30, 2011, Ivanhoe cited"strong opposition of the local politicians" to its copper- gold prospects.

According to Pearl Harder, member of a broad coalition that formed to oppose Ivanhoe's operations, "the politicians are only doing what we the people have asked them to do. We are opposed to metallic mining in the Province of Romblon because we know it will harm our environment and our livelihood from agriculture and tourism."  Ivanhoe acknowledges strong local opposition saying the company will relocate its efforts to "communities responsive to exploration and mining."

Arriving in Tablas the day after Ivanhoe's decision was made public on October 13, Catherine Coumans of MiningWatch Canada says, "I found a celebratory mood ..."

[jacee]

(Ottawa) Effective September 19th, Goldcorp has been removed from the Dow Jones North America Sustainability Index.

The announcement comes in the context of ongoing allegations of human rights violations and evidence of environmental contamination in communities affected by Goldcorp’s mining activities

"Goldcorp’s removal from the Dow Jones Sustainability Index will not make a difference in the daily lives of communities in Guatemala, Honduras and elsewhere who are living with long-term impacts from this company’s operations,” says Jennifer Moore, Latin America Program Coordinator for MiningWatch Canada, “but this is another indication that the company can’t just paper over the damage that it’s doing.”

Last year, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights ordered the Guatemalan government to suspend Goldcorp’s Marlin mine due to serious concerns for the security and health of eighteen local indigenous communities. Despite Guatemala’s failure to suspend the mine, the order remains in place. International scientific studies indicate that surface water depletion in the area of the mine may be drawing arsenic-rich groundwater to the surface, and preliminary research shows that people living closest to the mine have elevated levels of lead in their blood and arsenic in their urine.

“Goldcorp’s deletion from this index less than nine months after it was added should tel Wall Street something the communities have known for years – Goldcorp’s operations in Guatemala and Honduras are not sustainable for communities, the environment, nor ultimately for responsible investors,” says Amanda Kistler, mining campaigner for the Center for International Environmental Law.

A recent study of reclamation issues for Goldcorp’s Marlin mine in Guatemala found that the existing surety bond of $1 million USD would not even cover the cost to remove Goldcorp’s equipment and infrastructure at the mine. It further warned that Goldcorp’s non- public reclamation plan casts serious doubt on the intentions of the company to undertake this work. The study calculated that an estimated $49 million USD would be a more appropriate surety bond to ensure the mine site is properly cleaned up and maintained once the company leaves

“Goldcorp ‘invests’ millions in advertising, painting itself as a marvelous, responsible, and ethica company,” says Magalí Rey Rosa director of ‘Savia’, the School of Ecologist Thought in Guatemala“But the Guatemalans who live in the area near the mine have learned the hard way that company propaganda doesn’t equate with reality, and now, thanks to the Marlin mine, they live in fear, with less water and more health problems."

Edited October 25, 2011 by jacee

[Shady]

Do the occupy protesters realize that many of them are in the world's top 1%?

[GostHacked]

Do the occupy protesters realize that many of them are in the world's top 1%?

Did you also know that some of the 1% is trying to hijack the whole movement? Kind of like how the Tea Party was hijacked which like OWS started out as real grassroots movements?

[GostHacked]

Some analysis by one of my faves.

http://tarpley.net/2011/10/28/last-tuesday-occupy-wall-street-endorsed-the-1-wall-street-sales-tax-and-became-a-real-threat-to-financier-power/

[jacee]

Some analysis by one of my faves.

http://tarpley.net/2011/10/28/last-tuesday-occupy-wall-street-endorsed-the-1-wall-street-sales-tax-and-became-a-real-threat-to-financier-power/

Very interesting.

The interviewee seems certain that the demand from Adbusters fuelled police crackdowns last Tues.

I'd like to know how that works.

Who controls the police?

He didn't even question it.

It suggests to me that if some people can tell the police what to do, we'd all better start lobbying police.

As for the 'demand' by Adbusters for a 1% tax on every stock trade ... it may make sense and may be championed by some politicians, but it didn't come from the Occupiers.

I think these are examples of people trying to co-opt the movement and control it from within current political structures. The occupiers are avoiding making demands for that reason. They're raising awareness and no doubt hoping for such conversations about strategy to occur within current political structures, but they are intentionally not limiting themselves to specific strategies or demands: That's for politicians to fight about and win or lose.

Edited November 1, 2011 by jacee

[GostHacked]

Very interesting.

The interviewee seems certain that the demand from Adbusters fuelled police crackdowns last Tues.

I'd like to know how that works.

Who controls the police?

He didn't even question it.

It suggests to me that if some people can tell the police what to do, we'd all better start lobbying police.

As for the 'demand' by Adbusters for a 1% tax on every stock trade ... it may make sense and may be championed by some politicians, but it didn't come from the Occupiers.

I think these are examples of people trying to co-opt the movement and control it from within current political structures. The occupiers are avoiding making demands for that reason. They're raising awareness and no doubt hoping for such conversations about strategy to occur within current political structures, but they are intentionally not limiting themselves to specific strategies or demands: That's for politicians to fight about and win or lose.

The one thing I do agree with Tarpley is that the Occupy movement needs to make some demands. If there really is no direction for the movement, it won't last.

[cybercoma]

The one thing I do agree with Tarpley is that the Occupy movement needs to make some demands. If there really is no direction for the movement, it won't last.

There is a direction for the movement. "Demands" are not what's important here. What's important is identifying the problem and opening up a dialogue about it. Once they collapse the movement down into "demands" it's too easy for politicians to throw out the demands without addressing the problems. They can disagree with the demands or throw them out, but the problems will still remain unless they continue working on solutions for them. The protests will go away when the problems go away and the problems won't go away until politicians begin working on them and making meaningful progress towards correcting them.

[jacee]

The one thing I do agree with Tarpley is that the Occupy movement needs to make some demands. If there really is no direction for the movement, it won't last.

I agree with cybercoma on this: Making demands will be the end of the movement because those demands will enter the usual political process where they'll get watered down to serve the 1% while some sop will be 'negotiated' to 'satisfy' the protesters and get them to go home.

They need to be right where they are, doing what they're doing to be a constant reminder to the 1% and politicians.

[dre]

I agree with cybercoma on this: Making demands will be the end of the movement because those demands will enter the usual political process where they'll get watered down to serve the 1% while some sop will be 'negotiated' to 'satisfy' the protesters and get them to go home.

They need to be right where they are, doing what they're doing to be a constant reminder to the 1% and politicians.

I dont think the movement will go away. THe subprime crisis was just the first tremor, in what is going to be a large series of quakes. Dont worry... there will be plenty more events in the financial system to keep them angry. After all... nothing got fixed. All they did was throw a massive mountain of borrowed money at the problem to smooth over some of the symptoms.

If you think people are pissed of now, just wait until unemployment hits 15% and the purchasing power of the dollar drops a whole bunch more.

I also dont think this will EVER be a movement with a real cohesive vision of what they want, or any real topdown leadership, or well defined objectives. Even top macro-economists cant agree on what the problems are never mind what the solutions might be. It will just be angry confused people protesting a failed political and economic system.

Edited November 2, 2011 by dre

[jacee]

I dont think the movement will go away. THe subprime crisis was just the first tremor, in what is going to be a large series of quakes. Dont worry... there will be plenty more events in the financial system to keep them angry. After all... nothing got fixed. All they did was throw a massive mountain of borrowed money at the problem to smooth over some of the symptoms.

If you think people are pissed of now, just wait until unemployment hits 15% and the purchasing power of the dollar drops a whole bunch more.

I also dont think this will EVER be a movement with a real cohesive vision of what they want, or any real topdown leadership, or well defined objectives. Even top macro-economists cant agree on what the problems are never mind what the solutions might be. It will just be angry confused people protesting a failed political and economic system.

Ahhhh ... so the riots begin.

OCCUPY isn't smashing and grabbing with rapid expansion of the underground economy, but those elements of Vancouver and especially London riots, would be more likely under the scenario you describe.

[jacee]

Evidence has shown that cities that roust Occupy protesters out invariably fail because protesters simply return stronger than before, (Vancouver) City Manager Penny Ballem said..

Ballem and Deputy City Manager Sadhu Johnston said Occupy Vancouver has taken on a similar shape of the protests that have emerged in 1,700 cities around the world. Most of the cities are taking a “watch and wait” approach and are respecting peoples’ right to protest, Johnston said.

Those cities that have tried to forcibly end the occupations, including Chicago, Melbourne and Oakland have all failed.

“It appears that even going in and forcing a shutdown doesn’t end it. It is very grassroots and people come back in their own ways and keep doing it,” he said.

_________________________

Edited November 2, 2011 by jacee

[cybercoma]

I also dont think this will EVER be a movement with a real cohesive vision of what they want, or any real topdown leadership, or well defined objectives. Even top macro-economists cant agree on what the problems are never mind what the solutions might be. It will just be angry confused people protesting a failed political and economic system.

The misunderstandings people have about this movement are because they're used to a certain system with a particular structure that is to the advantage of the top of the pyramid. Our society is built on a ponzi scheme. So, top-down leadership is exactly what the movement is fighting. They're trying to turn the pyramid on its head. If a free and democratic society is supposed to be for the people and by the people, as the motto of The Great Republic goes, then top-down leadership is antithetical to that ideal. Well-defined solutions will come, but true democracy takes time. The corporate puppets in government have force-fed solutions to the electorate for so long that we expect these answers to come down from high somehow and lead us in the right direction. This movement is about smashing that system, which has been detrimental to democracy and to the majority of people, who have seen their real wages and financial wealth eroded and funneled to the ruling class over the last 40 years. It's about consensus building and working together to solve problems and that takes time. They've really only been together for 6 weeks and people are expecting them to solve all of the world's problems in a month. That's just a way of passing them off as ineffectual and not worth listening to, which as I've said is just another way to ignore the problem by "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."

[bush_cheney2004]

....If a free and democratic society is supposed to be for the people and by the people, as the motto of The Great Republic goes, then top-down leadership is antithetical to that ideal.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, The Great Republic did get rid of the monarchy and directly elects its leaders. The motto doesn't mean mob rule by some rag tag people in a park.

[cybercoma]

Instead of being ruled by the monarchy, America is now ruled by the cronies chosen by the corporations and for the corporations. You get to go to the voting booth and choose between corporate puppet D or corporate puppet R. But, I guess that's because corporations are people according to US law though. So it's still by some of the people, for some of the people.

[cybercoma]

And it would be really great if it had no effect on the rest of the world, but then your corporate lackeys in the White House use their foreign policy and military to allow your completely inhumane and unethical corporations to march all over the world destroying the environment, killing people that get in the way of their pipelines and otherwise subjecting humanity to unconscionable abuses.

[bush_cheney2004]

... You get to go to the voting booth and choose between corporate puppet D or corporate puppet R. But, I guess that's because corporations are people according to US law though. So it's still by some of the people, for some of the people.

Correct...and some of the people don't even bother to vote, so your whole premise is quite faulty, historically and in the present. The funny part is that Americans have more direct democracy than Canadians, but you would rather spend your time ragging on the oldest existing democracy in the world.

[Guest Manny]

America needs reform and this is exactly the kind of activity that created America long ago. People standing up for effective representation. But she can't because the same disease has hold of her now as back then.

[bush_cheney2004]

And it would be really great if it had no effect on the rest of the world, but then your corporate lackeys in the White House use their foreign policy and military to allow your completely inhumane and unethical corporations to march all over the world destroying the environment, killing people that get in the way of their pipelines and otherwise subjecting humanity to unconscionable abuses.

But of course...we will just ignore the existence of Paul Martin in Libya, or Canadian mining companies tearing up the planet and "killing people" and their way of life, or the dirtiest, filthiest oil extraction process on earth (tarsands), or the worst polluting coal fired power plant in North America (Nanticoke).

We'll ignore all the Canadian uranium ore that fostered Cold War nuclear weapons that still exist today, not to mention fun spin-offs like depleted uranium munitions. Thanks Canada...you make the world a better place!

[bush_cheney2004]

America needs reform and this is exactly the kind of activity that created America long ago. People standing up for effective representation. But she can't because the same disease has hold of her now as back then.

Don't worry...we got rid of the disease before...it fled to Canada!

[Shady]

I think these protesters are finally realizing that lighting up doobies doesn't advance your cause much.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think these protesters are finally realizing that lighting up doobies doesn't advance your cause much.

Yea...even doobies cost money in the spirit of capitalism.

[GostHacked]

Correct...and some of the people don't even bother to vote, so your whole premise is quite faulty, historically and in the present. The funny part is that Americans have more direct democracy than Canadians, but you would rather spend your time ragging on the oldest existing democracy in the world.

There is a real problem with using electronic voting machines that are easily hacked. So your vote might not even be counted.

How do you propose to fix that problem?