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Islamification of Toronto?


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On 7/27/2011 at 9:29 AM, kimmy said:

The idea of homogenous Muslim neighborhoods isn't quite the "mosaic" we multicultural-loving Canadians were sold on, is it?

I don't think homogenous ethnic enclaves in our cities is a good idea. People become Canadianized by mixing amongst Canadians.

-k

I live in a part of Scarborough that's majority Chinese. When I lived in Ottawa, it was majority English. When I lived in Gatineau, it was majority French. In Ontario alone, we have  English secular, French secular, English Catholic, and French Catholic school boards and one English Protestant school board. Quebec has French and English school boards. Why do Anglo-Canadians criticize others for forming their own neighbourhoods when English Canadians do the exact same thing. We sometimes hear of white flight, which even raises the question of whether English self-segregation in fact creates these neighbourhoods and Anglo-Canadians leave to create their own homogeneous neighbourhoods.

By the way, I'm a white French Canadian living in Scarborough. If I adopted the mentality of the average Ango, I'd be moving out of there so I could live with 'my own kind' and then I'd complain about Scarborough being too Chinese when it's probably so because too many Anglos didn't like living with Chinese and so moved out. Don't criticize others for doing exactly what you yourself do.

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8 hours ago, Machjo said:

I live in a part of Scarborough that's majority Chinese. When I lived in Ottawa, it was majority English. When I lived in Gatineau, it was majority French. In Ontario alone, we have  English secular, French secular, English Catholic, and French Catholic school boards and one English Protestant school board. Quebec has French and English school boards. Why do Anglo-Canadians criticize others for forming their own neighbourhoods when English Canadians do the exact same thing. We sometimes hear of white flight, which even raises the question of whether English self-segregation in fact creates these neighbourhoods and Anglo-Canadians leave to create their own homogeneous neighbourhoods.

By the way, I'm a white French Canadian living in Scarborough. If I adopted the mentality of the average Ango, I'd be moving out of there so I could live with 'my own kind' and then I'd complain about Scarborough being too Chinese when it's probably so because too many Anglos didn't like living with Chinese and so moved out. Don't criticize others for doing exactly what you yourself do.

Most Anglo white people do not like living in East Indian neighborhoods. They leave those areas when they are starting to be taken over by other ethnic people. Personally, I could not live in an area where I was just about to find out that I soon will be one of the last of the Mohicans. I tend to want to be with my own white Anglo people. I guess that makes me a racist, eh?  Aw well. 

Edited by taxme
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9 hours ago, taxme said:

Most Anglo white people do not like living in East Indian neighborhoods. They leave those areas when they are starting to be taken over by other ethnic people. Personally, I could not live in an area where I was just about to find out that I soon will be one of the last of the Mohicans. I tend to want to be with my own white Anglo people. I guess that makes me a racist, eh?  Aw well. 

It's interesting that Machjo has no concerns about living in an ethnoburb. I suspect that most multi-generational Canadians wouldn't be overly concerned either. But I wonder whether his neighbours are so welcoming of him? I only ask this because, as I noted in a post earlier in this string, several years ago when my parents still resided in the Toronto area they spent a year living in a rented home in a newly constructed middle-class ethnoburb. At first they felt comfortable although my mother noted that nobody spoke to them. And then one night they had their car, which they'd left in the driveway, vandalized. When the police arrived to take the report, as was necessary for my parents to file an insurance claim, one officer told my parents that the police were seldom called to the neighbourhood and noted that there had been no similar incidents reported in the area despite the fact that many residences routinely had cars parked in driveways throughout the day and night. As the ethno-racial background of my parents obviously wasn't consistent with that of the neighbourhood, one officer speculated that it was possible the vandalism represented a (not very subtle) message being sent. My parents stayed in the house until the lease expired and then not much later moved out of the GTA, buying a home in another city in a mainly Caucasian but considerably more diverse and welcoming neighbourhood.

I thought of this incident a few years later when a developer's plan to building housing in another GTA ethnoburb was challenged by local residents on grounds that the target demographic market for the proposed medium density housing development was not, apparently, their own ethno-racial community. There was at the time a lot of local media coverage of the situation.. I believe those who worry about the reaction of multi-generational (i.e. European) Canadians to demographic change should pay equal attention to the troubling desire within some newcomer communities to foster ethno-racial and cultural exclusivity.

Edited by turningrite
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29 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I believe those who worry about the reaction of multi-generational (i.e. European) Canadians to demographic change should pay equal attention to the troubling desire within some newcomer communities to foster ethno-racial and cultural exclusivity.

I think this needs to be reiterated.  Canada ranks consistently as one of the most tolerant populations on the planet, while Muslim lands consistently rank as the least tolerant.  And yet some are trying to convince us that Canadians are the least tolerant and Muslim nations are the most tolerant.

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59 minutes ago, turningrite said:

It's interesting that Machjo has no concerns about living in an ethnoburb. I suspect that most multi-generational Canadians wouldn't be overly concerned either. But I wonder whether his neighbours are so welcoming of him? I only ask this because, as I noted in a post earlier in this string, several years ago when my parents still resided in the Toronto area they spent a year living in a rented home in a newly constructed middle-class ethnoburb. At first they felt comfortable although my mother noted that nobody spoke to them. And then one night they had their car, which they'd left in the driveway, vandalized. When the police arrived to take the report, as was necessary for my parents to file an insurance claim, one officer told my parents that the police were seldom called to the neighbourhood and noted that there had been no similar incidents reported in the area despite the fact that many residences routinely had cars parked in driveways throughout the day and night. As the ethno-racial background of my parents obviously wasn't consistent with that of the neighbourhood, one officer speculated that it was possible the vandalism represented a (not very subtle) message being sent. My parents stayed in the house until the lease expired and then not much later moved out of the GTA, buying a home in another city in a mainly Caucasian but considerably more diverse and welcoming neighbourhood.

I thought of this incident a few years later when a developer's plan to building housing in another GTA ethnoburb was challenged by local residents on grounds that the target demographic market for the proposed medium density housing development was not, apparently, their own ethno-racial community. There was at the time a lot of local media coverage of the situation.. I believe those who worry about the reaction of multi-generational (i.e. European) Canadians to demographic change should pay equal attention to the troubling desire within some newcomer communities to foster ethno-racial and cultural exclusivity.

Prejudice exists in every community. So far though, I've been quite well received in my 'ethno-burb.'

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29 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I think this needs to be reiterated.  Canada ranks consistently as one of the most tolerant populations on the planet, while Muslim lands consistently rank as the least tolerant.  And yet some are trying to convince us that Canadians are the least tolerant and Muslim nations are the most tolerant.

Are we talking about states or individuals? Yes, Canada, like Singapore and a few other countries around the world, enjoys a reputation for being welcoming of foreigners whereas many 'Muslim' states tend to be much less tolerant. That does not necessarily reflect the individual level though. Welcoming and bigotted people come in every form.

It's worth noting too that the desire for ethnic exclusivity is not unique to immigrant communities. Just look at how English and French Canadians like to segregate themselves too.

Edited by Machjo
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9 hours ago, taxme said:

Most Anglo white people do not like living in East Indian neighborhoods. They leave those areas when they are starting to be taken over by other ethnic people. Personally, I could not live in an area where I was just about to find out that I soon will be one of the last of the Mohicans. I tend to want to be with my own white Anglo people. I guess that makes me a racist, eh?  Aw well. 

So who's responsible for that segregation: the non-Anglos who welcome you into their community or the Anglos who choose to leave?

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18 hours ago, Machjo said:

By the way, I'm a white French Canadian living in Scarborough. If I adopted the mentality of the average Ango, I'd be moving out of there so I could live with 'my own kind'

Why pick on white anglos? I recall reading a paper on tourism a few years back which pointed out that while Quebecers (French Quebecrs) loved to go south to Florida almost none had the slightest interest in going anywhere in Canada west of Ottawa. In addition, of course, if your area is Chinese it's because a lot of Chinese looked over the available places to live, and selected the place that was Chinese, just like Indians do, just like Somalis do, just like Italians and Portugese used to do.

 

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Why pick on white anglos? I recall reading a paper on tourism a few years back which pointed out that while Quebecers (French Quebecrs) loved to go south to Florida almost none had the slightest interest in going anywhere in Canada west of Ottawa. In addition, of course, if your area is Chinese it's because a lot of Chinese looked over the available places to live, and selected the place that was Chinese, just like Indians do, just like Somalis do, just like Italians and Portugese used to do.

 

Indeed they do. But if you got to know them better, it usually had more to do with a preference for a particular language than for a particular race, ethnicity, or nationality, interestingly enough.

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5 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Indeed they do. But if you got to know them better, it usually had more to do with a preference for a particular language than for a particular race, ethnicity, or nationality, interestingly enough.

Every social psychologist will tell you that regardless of where in the world you take your examples from, the majority of people prefer to live among those who are pretty much like them. This is a known fact of human psychology and not even disputed by anyone in that field. I like to remember decades ago when I was taking an intercity bus home from Toronto. A black guy got on, and as he came up the aisle I felt a sense of "ugh, he's going to sit next to me" and he did. Oh well, but then he started talking. And guess what? He had no accent (almost all Black people then were immigrants/refugees). He was raised in Canada. He was, in other words, pretty much like me. My feelings about him completely changed in a minute.

It's not skin colour. It's a desire to be around people we can relate to, communicate with, and who we feel a sense of kinship for. The less people are like us, in terms of how they dress, how they talk, how they think, their religious beliefs and values, the less comfortable the majority of people are in living among them.

Edited by Argus
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9 minutes ago, Argus said:

Every social psychologist will tell you that regardless of where in the world you take your examples from, the majority of people prefer to live among those who are pretty much like them. This is a known fact of human psychology and not even disputed by anyone in that field. I like to remember decades ago when I was taking an intercity bus home from Toronto. A black guy got on, and as he came up the aisle I felt a sense of "ugh, he's going to sit next to me" and he did. Oh well, but then he started talking. And guess what? He had no accent (almost all Black people then were immigrants/refugees). He was raised in Canada. He was, in other words, pretty much like me. My feelings about him completely changed in a minute.

It's not skin colour. It's a desire to be around people we can relate to, communicate with, and who we feel a sense of kinship for. The less people are like us, in terms of how they dress, how they talk, how they think, their religious beliefs and values, the less comfortable the majority of people are in living among them.

Interesting. I react the same way but more related to language and religion than to anything else. I prefer people with whom I share a common language and who hold to a higher character. For example, the smell of alcohol or tobacco or marijuana on a person will certainly repel me far more than his skin colour ever would.

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2 hours ago, Machjo said:

So who's responsible for that segregation: the non-Anglos who welcome you into their community or the Anglos who choose to leave?

One of the troubling aspects of the ethnoburb phenomenon is that many of these communities are being established as new-build projects. Nobody is moving out but those moving in are often overwhelmingly of singular ethno-racial and/or religious backgrounds, which is the genesis of the "ethnoburb" designation. Some apologists for modern immigration and open-ended multicultural policies compare these ethnic suburbs to the so-called "receiving" neighbourhoods established by immigrant groups in previous generations. But there is actually a big difference. The receiving neighbourhoods were located in or near inner-city neighbourhoods, where new waves of immigrants in succession generally displaced older waves of immigrants. They were, in essence, transitory neighbourhoods that weren't intended to be permanent ethnic or racial enclaves. As newcomers adapted and integrated they moved into the broader community. The new ethnoburbs, however, appear intended to be more-or-less permanently segregated enclaves. The implications may be far more problematic than many want to be believe to be the case. Ghettos, whatever their socio-economic characteristics, tend to undermine social cohesion, integration and tolerance.

Edited by turningrite
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5 hours ago, turningrite said:

It's interesting that Machjo has no concerns about living in an ethnoburb. I suspect that most multi-generational Canadians wouldn't be overly concerned either. But I wonder whether his neighbours are so welcoming of him? I only ask this because, as I noted in a post earlier in this string, several years ago when my parents still resided in the Toronto area they spent a year living in a rented home in a newly constructed middle-class ethnoburb. At first they felt comfortable although my mother noted that nobody spoke to them. And then one night they had their car, which they'd left in the driveway, vandalized. When the police arrived to take the report, as was necessary for my parents to file an insurance claim, one officer told my parents that the police were seldom called to the neighbourhood and noted that there had been no similar incidents reported in the area despite the fact that many residences routinely had cars parked in driveways throughout the day and night. As the ethno-racial background of my parents obviously wasn't consistent with that of the neighbourhood, one officer speculated that it was possible the vandalism represented a (not very subtle) message being sent. My parents stayed in the house until the lease expired and then not much later moved out of the GTA, buying a home in another city in a mainly Caucasian but considerably more diverse and welcoming neighbourhood.

I thought of this incident a few years later when a developer's plan to building housing in another GTA ethnoburb was challenged by local residents on grounds that the target demographic market for the proposed medium density housing development was not, apparently, their own ethno-racial community. There was at the time a lot of local media coverage of the situation.. I believe those who worry about the reaction of multi-generational (i.e. European) Canadians to demographic change should pay equal attention to the troubling desire within some newcomer communities to foster ethno-racial and cultural exclusivity.

As I have said many times before, a country will not survive if it keeps bringing in more people that are culturally imcompatible to the host people of those countries or in other words, forcing multicultural programs and agendas on the host citizen's of any  country without their permission. The more a country allows in more new immigrants from the dozens of different non British/European countries with the many different languages, cultures, traditions, and religions is asking for trouble. And our governments at all levels are trying to help and support and promote those new cultures at the British/Europeans expense. More problems will develop from all that mixing up of the races. Many new immigrants coming to Canada hate many other new immigrants from other countries. As an example Chinese and Koreans despise one another. Not good for diversity and trying to get along. Multiculturalism will destroy Canada if it not soon nipped in the bud.  

There was a mall in Delta, BC a few years ago that was taken over by South Koreans. They bought the mall and when the leases came up for renewal for everyone who had a business in that mall that were not Korean their contracts were not renewed. They only wanted Korean stores in that mall. That was racism pure and simple. They did not want white people in that mall. White people in a pretty much owned Chinese mall in Richmond, BC one day many years ago were told to go shop in another white mall somewhere. They were white. Another example of racism against white people at it's best. This is only just the start of what white people in this country will face in another decade or so if they do not soon wake the hell up. The British/European founders of this country are slowly been replaced by a foreign non British/European one who clearly have shown that many do not have any love for our way of life and doing things or for white people period. Your mother was a prime example of this racism. Toronto is starting to become a hell hole for the British/European people of that city. We all should know by now that Muslims will never try and assimilate into Canadian culture. 

The warning signals are there for all to see but is anyone reading that writing on the wall?  I don't think so. My son and grandchildren are being taught in school that their British culture is not welcome or dominant in Canada anymore. They are now becoming second class citizen's in their own country. That will not be good or great for them in the future. It will be a disaster for them. My opinion of course. 

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11 minutes ago, taxme said:

As I have said many times before, a country will not survive if it keeps bringing in more people that are culturally imcompatible to the host people of those countries or in other words, forcing multicultural programs and agendas on the host citizen's of any  country without their permission. The more a country allows in more new immigrants from the dozens of different non British/European countries with the many different languages, cultures, traditions, and religions is asking for trouble. And our governments at all levels are trying to help and support and promote those new cultures at the British/Europeans expense. More problems will develop from all that mixing up of the races. Many new immigrants coming to Canada hate many other new immigrants from other countries. As an example Chinese and Koreans despise one another. Not good for diversity and trying to get along. Multiculturalism will destroy Canada if it not soon nipped in the bud.  

There was a mall in Delta, BC a few years ago that was taken over by South Koreans. They bought the mall and when the leases came up for renewal for everyone who had a business in that mall that were not Korean their contracts were not renewed. They only wanted Korean stores in that mall. That was racism pure and simple. They did not want white people in that mall. White people in a pretty much owned Chinese mall in Richmond, BC one day many years ago were told to go shop in another white mall somewhere. They were white. Another example of racism against white people at it's best. This is only just the start of what white people in this country will face in another decade or so if they do not soon wake the hell up. The British/European founders of this country are slowly been replaced by a foreign non British/European one who clearly have shown that many do not have any love for our way of life and doing things or for white people period. Your mother was a prime example of this racism. Toronto is starting to become a hell hole for the British/European people of that city. We all should know by now that Muslims will never try and assimilate into Canadian culture. 

The warning signals are there for all to see but is anyone reading that writing on the wall?  I don't think so. My son and grandchildren are being taught in school that their British culture is not welcome or dominant in Canada anymore. They are now becoming second class citizen's in their own country. That will not be good or great for them in the future. It will be a disaster for them. My opinion of course. 

Do you have a link to back up your claims of the Korean community systematically excluding whites and of Koreans and Chinese hating one another? I've seen Korean restaurants in the heart of the Chinese community and Chinese friends and I have visited Korean restaurants run by Koreans.

Don't assume that what's going on in your local community is happening across Canada. If that's happening in your local community, speak up against at local city council meetings.

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2 hours ago, turningrite said:

One of the troubling aspects of the ethnoburb phenomenon is that many of these communities are being established as new-build projects. Nobody is moving out but those moving in are often overwhelmingly of singular ethno-racial and/or religious backgrounds, which is the genesis of the "ethnoburb" designation. Some apologists for modern immigration and open-ended multicultural policies compare these ethnic suburbs to the so-called "receiving" neighbourhoods established by immigrant groups in previous generations. But there is actually a big difference. The receiving neighbourhoods were located in or near inner-city neighbourhoods, where new waves of immigrants in succession generally displaced older waves of immigrants. They were, in essence, transitory neighbourhoods that weren't intended to be permanent ethnic or racial enclaves. As newcomers adapted and integrated they moved into the broader community. The new ethnoburbs, however, appear intended to be more-or-less permanently segregated enclaves. The implications may be far more problematic than many want to be believe to be the case. Ghettos, whatever their socio-economic characteristics, tend to undermine social cohesion, integration and tolerance.

Now I do agree with cities putting a stop to suburban sprawl. We should focus instead on cities growing up, not out. But beyond that though, I see nothing wrong with people moving close to their language community. That's quite normal in fact.

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4 hours ago, Machjo said:

Are we talking about states or individuals? Yes, Canada, like Singapore and a few other countries around the world, enjoys a reputation for being welcoming of foreigners whereas many 'Muslim' states tend to be much less tolerant. That does not necessarily reflect the individual level though. Welcoming and bigotted people come in every form.

It's worth noting too that the desire for ethnic exclusivity is not unique to immigrant communities. Just look at how English and French Canadians like to segregate themselves too.

I am getting sick and tried of welcoming all those other foreign non British/European cultures. We have enough already. Canada is taking in too many foreign cultures, religions and languages for my liking. Why is it that Canada takes in 80 -85% of it's new immigrants from non British/European countries which I might add has been going on for decades now. Why? Can you explain that one for me? 

It's more like it is the french that want to segregate themselves from English Canada. They always want to threaten separatism when they can't get their way. They are the bigots and intolerant ones here in Canada. They treat the English language like crap and get away with it. :o 

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10 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Do you have a link to back up your claims of the Korean community systematically excluding whites and of Koreans and Chinese hating one another? I've seen Korean restaurants in the heart of the Chinese community and Chinese friends and I have visited Korean restaurants run by Koreans.

Don't assume that what's going on in your local community is happening across Canada. If that's happening in your local community, speak up against at local city council meetings.

What? Are you serious? I would have to go back over a decade ago to try and find that information out for you. I know for a fact that Koreans do not like Chinese. My son had a Korean friend and he got insulted when I thought that he was Chinese. Trust me they do not have love for each other. Sure there are no doubt Chines and Korean restaurants snuggled together somewhere but that does not have to mean that they love each other. They are actually competing with each other for business and probably do not like it one bit. 

Try and go to a city council meeting and start talking race and immigration? The council will just sit there and will probably ignore you. All levels of government all try to avoid race and immigration discussions and debates. Those two topics are all too hot to handle for any politician to want to deal with. It just must remain a taboo and sacred cow subjects that should never be talked about in politically correct polite circles. I know all about that because of the many websites that I like to visit where the operators of those websites have gone to meetings and were pretty much ignored when the topic of race or immigration came up. FYI. 

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19 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Now I do agree with cities putting a stop to suburban sprawl. We should focus instead on cities growing up, not out. But beyond that though, I see nothing wrong with people moving close to their language community. That's quite normal in fact.

What happens when there are a dozen different communities with many different languages, ,cultures, traditions and religions that are not compatible with one another and do not want to have to deal with one another because of their biases and prejudices towards each another. No non black Canadian wants to live in a black community because of the reputation that black communities have to offer. Poverty and unemployment and crime. All you have done here is set up a bunch of tribal communities and ghettos which is exactly what is happening in Canada today. This is my territory and don't you dare come into it or else is what I see happening in Canada today. We are slowly all becoming a bit racist or there are now even actual racism going on now. This was not normal in Canada over sixty years ago. But thanks to multiculturalism tribal war has begun. You just refuse to want to see it happening in front of you. :(  

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26 minutes ago, Machjo said:

I'll let you know when things change, 'kay?

I imagine though that as long as I avoid buring crosses on neighbours' lawns, I should be okay. :)

Sure you will. You would probably be the last one to want to show me and prove me right, eh? Hey, if it gets bad in the purple colored community that I live in I will let you know. Okay? :D

There you go. Showing your racism already towards white people as if white people like to burn crosses on other peoples lawns. Those days are long gone or have you bothered not to notice that just yet that no one burns crosses on other peoples lawns anymore? This is what I have been talking about for years now. Blame old whitey for everything is pretty much what you are saying here as far as I am concerned. :rolleyes:

 

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22 minutes ago, taxme said:

What? Are you serious? I would have to go back over a decade ago to try and find that information out for you. I know for a fact that Koreans do not like Chinese. My son had a Korean friend and he got insulted when I thought that he was Chinese. Trust me they do not have love for each other. Sure there are no doubt Chines and Korean restaurants snuggled together somewhere but that does not have to mean that they love each other. They are actually competing with each other for business and probably do not like it one bit. 

Try and go to a city council meeting and start talking race and immigration? The council will just sit there and will probably ignore you. All levels of government all try to avoid race and immigration discussions and debates. Those two topics are all too hot to handle for any politician to want to deal with. It just must remain a taboo and sacred cow subjects that should never be talked about in politically correct polite circles. I know all about that because of the many websites that I like to visit where the operators of those websites have gone to meetings and were pretty much ignored when the topic of race or immigration came up. FYI. 

Some Chinese even choose to learn Korean. Go figure eh. And why do you care so much about race?

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15 minutes ago, taxme said:

What happens when there are a dozen different communities with many different languages, ,cultures, traditions and religions that are not compatible with one another and do not want to have to deal with one another because of their biases and prejudices towards each another. No non black Canadian wants to live in a black community because of the reputation that black communities have to offer. Poverty and unemployment and crime. All you have done here is set up a bunch of tribal communities and ghettos which is exactly what is happening in Canada today. This is my territory and don't you dare come into it or else is what I see happening in Canada today. We are slowly all becoming a bit racist or there are now even actual racism going on now. This was not normal in Canada over sixty years ago. But thanks to multiculturalism tribal war has begun. You just refuse to want to see it happening in front of you. :(  

Who cares about race?

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4 minutes ago, taxme said:

Sure you will. You would probably be the last one to want to show me and prove me right, eh? Hey, if it gets bad in the purple colored community that I live in I will let you know. Okay? :D

There you go. Showing your racism already towards white people as if white people like to burn crosses on other peoples lawns. Those days are long gone or have you bothered not to notice that just yet that no one burns crosses on other peoples lawns anymore? This is what I have been talking about for years now. Blame old whitey for everything is pretty much what you are saying here as far as I am concerned. :rolleyes:

 

I wasn't blaming 'whitey' for anything. I'm well aware that plenty of whites are quite welcoming of other races just as some non-whites can be quite prejudiced against whites. I wasn't thinking of whites at all. I was just thinking of you, thinking that maybe you walk around with a Nazi flag pin on your lapel that might explain some of the behaviour towards you? How do you explain that I as a minority white man in my local neighbourhood have generally been well received whereas you appear to have been chased out of every comunity you've ever moved into?

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53 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Some Chinese even choose to learn Korean. Go figure eh. And why do you care so much about race?

Some Anglophones learn french. Go figure, eh? So, what's your point anyway? :unsure:

Well, I am concerned about my Caucasian race because I see my Caucasian race as being in big time trouble, and not only in Canada but in all western countries of the world. Thanks to the implementation of multiculturalism and the massive third world immigration movement and invasion into all the western countries of the world they are all being pretty much forced to commit racial genocide being committed by the leftist liberal elites of the world. I think that it is time for western nations to start to care before it gets too late for us all. My opinion.   

So, tell me why I should not care?    

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