VIA Rail Sucks

[Smallc]

So, I write this as I sit on a Voyageur bus bound for Montreal. Right now, I'm supposed to be on the 11:39 train from Ottawa to Montreal. Why am I here? Because VIA Rail sucks.

You see, it turns out that on Sunday, July 3rd, there is no 11:39 VIA Rail train to Montreal. I booked two separate tickets, at two separate times, ande even specified that they be together, and no one informed me that there was even a chance that there wouldn't be a train. Apparently, their automated ticket system sent me notification of the cancellation. I didn't see it, and i'm not sure why, since I'm quite thorough with my trip planning and verification.

Now that would all be fine...if they hadn't sold my tickets to someone else. So, I either had to wait for 6:00 to roll around and be seated apart, or, find another way to Montreal. I got a refund for my tickets, took a taxi to the bus station, and got on the 12:01 bus. I hate the bus (their service is just as terrible) but I really dislike VIA right now.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Smallc

[Sir Bandelot]

I had a similar misfortune on a recent business trip. As I was returning from Toronto to Kingston by train, on Sunday evening my work completed early. I made an inquiry to see if I could get an earlier train, rather than the one I was booked on which was around 9pm. I went up to the ticket counter and spoke to a person, showed them my ticket and asked if I could leave on the 5pm train. Yes certainly, I was told, there was a spot. Ticket printed out, old ticket taken away.

Now if you know about their crappy rules for round-trips, you cannot book the coach class going in both drections. One direction has to be executive class. You HAVE TO pay the extra amount. And as it happened, my return ticket was in the executive class.

So I get on the train, take my seat in the executive class. Around Cobourg someone comes up to my seat, claiming tey have a ticket for it. One of the VIA staff asks to see my ticket, and declares it was for Monday, not Sunday! I was rather surprised. I explained to them what happened at the ticket counter. THey try to make some phone calls, asking me to stand in the area between cars. Because all other seats are taken in executive. They can't get through to anyone to resolve the problem. After 30 minutes I start making jokes like, "maybe you can just get me a chair here, so I can at least sit down?" And the person says, "This is not funny, sir." After another ten minutes or so I say to them, "Look, I don't need executive, I just want a seat somewhere so can I possibly go to the coach area (where dozens of seats were empty) and sit down there, while you try to resolve this problem?" I'm standing in the baggage area with my briefcase and luggage, for almost an hour,for crying out loud. They agree and I go find a seat.

When I arrived at my station I went to the ticket counter. They knew what happened by then. THey gave my a $20 discount on my ticket, since I didn't sit in executive class. How nice

[Molly]

So, I write this as I sit on a Voyageur bus bound for Montreal. Right now, I'm supposed to be on the 11:39 train from Ottawa to Montreal. Why am I here? Because VIA Rail sucks.

I could tell you a story.... it starts with a group of 60-some rural municipal politicians from all over Saskatchewan travelling to Churchill as a group ... VIA didn't look good at any point (except the dining car. The food was fine, when there was any, but no one had mentioned to the kitchen folks that there would be an extra 60 some-odd hungry guests for breakfast, lunch and dinner.) but the final strike was when the conductor locked the washrooms as the train pulled out of Thompson with an anticipated 5 hours to the next potty break.

There was an abrupt revolt.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Molly

[Smallc]

I was already for privatizing VIA. This certainly hasn't changed my mind.

[WWWTT]

Heres a contrasting story.

I spent the last 18 days in China.

I flew economy on Cathay Pacific from Pearson to Hong Kong direct(15hrs).Attended my wifes immigration interview at the Canadian consulate and spent a total of two days there.

Took a one hour ferry boat ride to Macau and stayed on the island of Taipa at the Grandview hotel.From there my wife and I regularly visited the historic areas of Macau by city bus(fare was two Patacas or .30CDN)Stayed there for another 2 days(and no we did not gamble).

Took another ferry to Shenzhen city(mainland China)Visited my brother in law and stayed at his appartment one night.

Next day my wife and I travelled on an overnight sleep on train to ShangCha(12hrs),capital city of Hunan province and where chairman Mao started his political life.2011 is also the 90th anniversary of the communist party in China.We stayed there a couple days and visited a nearby city to see the memorial home of Mao.

From there we travelled on another over night sleep on train to Nanning(14hrs).Capital city of Guangxi province near Vietnam.This is my wifes home town and we stayed at her families home for the rest of my stay.We travelled around the city by cab and city bus(.25CDN fair)

Two days before I departed we took an overnight sleep-on bus back to Shenzhen,bus back to Hong Kong and you get the idea.

Public transportation there is extremely affordable,accesible and popular there.And the food was great!

WWWTT

[William Ashley]

I've always had good experiences with VIA. Even if there is the odd delay if delays are substantial they are more than willing to give 50% or 100% refunds, which can be huge if you are travelling a long distance. It is good if you have some wiggle room and want to see a bit of the country.

I think highspeed rail would be useful however for the windsor montreal corridor and perhaps beyond though as a lot I think of casual traffic is done by train out there. A few other high speed routes would make sense also.

Just plan for delays to double your travel time, that is how I see it. My way down was quite late my way up was early. Both worked to my advantage. (other times travelling by via have been fine) Cancelations suck but they happen with every type of travel.

Train traffic is in part delayed because CN has priority over via on rail usage. If you don't want the scenic element fly, the prices are about the same, on long routes. You'll be paying perhaps $50 more (flight taxes) for the difference between flying and rail. That is why i think high speed rail is good for that corridor (any highly urban regions), and eventual phase out of high speed on a larger network. people usually need to change trains in toronto and montreal anyway.

Via equipment is quaint but also quite ancient apparently, from the old cp ect.. very comfortable though even in coach, more leg room than coach flights and you need a private jet or charter to get a bed on a flight.

Edited July 3, 2011 by William Ashley

[August1991]

Next day my wife and I travelled on an overnight sleep on train to ShangCha(12hrs),capital city of Hunan province and where chairman Mao started his political life.2011 is also the 90th anniversary of the communist party in China.We stayed there a couple days and visited a nearby city to see the memorial home of Mao.

From there we travelled on another over night sleep on train to Nanning(14hrs).Capital city of Guangxi province near Vietnam.This is my wifes home town and we stayed at her families home for the rest of my stay.We travelled around the city by cab and city bus(.25CDN fair)...

You were travelling in possibly the most densely populated part of the planet where people generally cannot afford to travel by plane or private car.

I think highspeed rail would be useful however for the windsor montreal corridor and perhaps beyond though as a lot I think of casual traffic is done by train out there. A few other high speed routes would make sense also.

There have been numerous studies and they all show that high speed rail makes no sense in Canada. It doesn't even make sense in France.

----

Canada is a large country with a small population. Trains make no sense, even in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor. I reckon that through VIA rail, we in effect subsidize people who are afraid to fly and don't have cars.

[Smallc]

That's a nice theory August, but that isn't why I was taking the train.

[M.Dancer]

I am travelling to Quebec city for a conference in august.

I the past, I would take the overnight train to montreal, pay the extra $25 for a roomette, arrive in montreal around 7AM and then tranfer to the quebec bound and arrive just after 12....

They cancelled the overnight trains to montreal. They no longer run...so the earliest I could arrive in Quebec city is 9PM...which meant leaving a day early and spending an extra night in Quebec...

So I went with Porter...the cost difference of flying porter over the train and staying an extra night was $150.00 saved....

[fellowtraveller]

Via Rail is another Classic Canadian Clusterf**k.

It exists to serve the Windsor-Quebec corridor with 30 trains per day while the rest of Canada gets 3 per week.

The only purpose of Via outside The Corridor is to maintain the pretence that it a national service. By maintaining this fiction, successive govts can pour billions in subsidies into vote rich areas of Canada while the rest of us pay. Bad business, good politics.

[Oleg Bach]

If you are on the bus I suggest you move up a seat from that wierd Asian guy who's out on a day pass.

[August1991]

Experts say that virtually no HSR lines anywhere in the world have earned enough revenue to cover both their construction and operating costs, even where population density is far greater than anywhere in the United States. Typically, governments have paid the construction costs, and in many cases have subsidized the operating costs as well.

US Congressional Research Paper

HSR = High Speed Rail

[sharkman]

Huh? People still travel by train in Canada? I wouldn't do that if I were you. Trains are for leisure or holidays except for the obvious commuter designs.

[William Ashley]

There have been numerous studies and they all show that high speed rail makes no sense in Canada. It doesn't even make sense in France.

----

Canada is a large country with a small population. Trains make no sense, even in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor. I reckon that through VIA rail, we in effect subsidize people who are afraid to fly and don't have cars.

There have been studies that state radiation is too dense to travel to the moon also. The point is that there have been studies that have shown there are about 3 highly useful regions that would be well served by high speed rail.

Generally government doesn't want people especially masses of people moving quickly though, that is part of the issue.

401 etc.. has major traffic congestion. It takes as long to drive as to take the train. If you cut the train time in half or more then it becomes more attractive, and would cut down on congestion problems in toronto-especially if it connects directly to the TTC rail lines. I'm not familiar with Montreal's subway.

I've seen feasability studies and they are feasible.

I don't understand the "doesn't make sense". You obviously havn't driven on the 401 during rush hour (or rolled on the 401 during rush hour).

Heck another option is to get car carriers on the thing too. Like rail ferry.

It is economically feasible, socially beneficial, and technologically progressive. I don't know what doesn't make sense to you about the stuff. Also post up links to your studies.

I don't get the ''''''people out here that are grumble talking about how the most densely populated area of canada gets services. People just don't understand that there are more cars lined up on the highways down here than are probably in your entire area. There are major pollution and health issues caused from this and massive amounts of inefficiency due to the crawl. It's a daily routine down here, and get it that this area pays the most taxes and has the most people, clue in already. Its not favoritism it is reality of the need in being economically efficient. Mass transit is a MUST when you have population levels this dense. This whole area is urban, not single city republic and surounding country, it is city after city after city.

http://media-3.web.britannica.com/eb-media/10/70010-004-BBFE93FB.gif

One of those three however may not be in the best interest of the cities involved.

Also the idea of direct return doesn't directly corelate when you include environmental health concerns into the mix. All that gas isn't good for us. You gas guzzlers imagine sitting on a road for an hour with gas fumes around you day in and day out 5 days a week. Its gonna cause health issues. Turn that into 30 minutes in a neutral air vehicle every day. Thing is that the thing saves money, it costs less to operate and people already pay the cost.

Here is the most popular google return from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Canada just google the windsor - quebec corridor, or windsor montreal for more info on this.

From my own planning I think I could implement a cost efficient plan for the route - there is no reason why experts couldn't if non performance clauses were put into contracts.

--- The other catch though is that I beleive in PUBLIC/Private corporations. Meaning that funds are solicited from the public, and they become part shareholders. This insures that the company which the government operates, but the public that invests has direct input into acts in the interest of both the public and any partners in the project.

You can't expect to pay all funds but any subsidy should be representative of any cost savings from the project. This is one that has social savings, meaning that total government costs go down, even spending on the project.

Here is a generalized article on this

http://www.torontolife.com/features/monster-jam/

The bottom line is that if you neglect "subsidized indulgence" in key areas, you pay the cost or more in others... and if you cut everything you give the people nothing you are just paying for the debt you racked up buying their votes over the last 100 years. That isn't in the public interest. You have to be efficient in what you choose to cut and avoid cutting the strings on things that hold up the sword, because some payments cost you less, some don't. Public transit run efficiently is not one of the strings you want to cut to save money, it is one you want to protect like your ACL.

Also looking at things regionally is an ultimate loss because people migrate especially in retirement.

Stress levels in part caused by biogenetic breakdown ( http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/06/22/city-stress-brain.html http://www.icta.org/doc/In-car%20pollution%20report.pdf (turn to page 12)

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5886437_harmful-effects-car-exhaust.html http://www.camh.net/News_events/News_releases_and_media_advisories_and_backgrounders/cost_study_ontario.html http://www.nutramed.com/environment/carschemicals.htm BUT I DON'T DRIVE.. DOESN'T MATTER http://www.rense.com/ufo6/benz.htm

Take for instance

"However, an April 1991 New York Attorney General consumer alert regarding carpets warns that "many of the chemicals emitted are toxic and some are known or suspected to cause cancer and birth defects."

) caused by environmental irritants run over into other costs. It is more provincially corelative but transport is a federal profolio also, and transport shouldn't be looked at simply from a moving goods basis, it should be looked at holistically, and that means seeing how it floods over into the economic, health, culture, and a handful of other areas, you really need to look at the big picture, and attacking Canada's aged public transit system is only doing a diservice. Making the system more effiective to the needs of the public is where you need to go to, not, its not good enough lets get rid of it. Fact is countries have trail traffic for a reason, Europe has the Eurotrain,US has companies like Amtrak, the point is rail is used, why because not only is it useful, but it is very useful. The catch though is keeping things "current" and keeping technologically innovative. Fact is rail has been neglected for decades but it is still a major transport system. I know because I live very close to rail road tracks and hear the long freights that head by here multiple times a day.

Edited July 4, 2011 by William Ashley

[RNG]

There have been multiple studies of a high speed link between Calgary and Edmonton. And the conclusions have been all over the place, depending on the input assumptions such as usage levels, operating costs and initial railbed upgrading costs. I think it's a case of deciding which result you want and massaging the input parameters to deliver that result.

[fellowtraveller]

There have been multiple studies of a high speed link between Calgary and Edmonton. And the conclusions have been all over the place, depending on the input assumptions such as usage levels, operating costs and initial railbed upgrading costs. I think it's a case of deciding which result you want and massaging the input parameters to deliver that result.

The only studies that show it making any economic sense at all have been done by SNC-Lavalin, Bombardier Corporation and The Three Stooges Institute of Economics.

The only way I would support this ludicrous concept is if the taxpayers of Quebec/Ontario paid for all capital costs and operating losses- like we do for them now and forever.

The route cannot even support standard passenger rail, it makes absolutely zero sense to spend billions on fast rail.

[Smallc]

Huh? People still travel by train in Canada? I wouldn't do that if I were you. Trains are for leisure or holidays except for the obvious commuter designs.

Even with the current standard train service, it makes more sense to go from Ottawa to Montreal by train. Any further, and I have no interest.

[capricorn]

Even with the current standard train service, it makes more sense to go from Ottawa to Montreal by train.

True. As an Ottawan, I have done that trip often, for pleasure and on business.

Any further, and I have no interest.

Sorry about your trouble with Via, Smallc. In my case I have fond memories of train travel. In the spring of 1971, I traveled from Ottawa to BC on The Canadian for a one month holiday in Vancouver; that's 3 nights and 4 days of rail travel, with half a dozen stops to drop off and pick up passengers. During daytime, it was marvelous watching the country glide by from the glass dome. Here's a peak at what I mean.

Back then, the dining car still used silver utensils and fine dinnerware. No such luxuries today.

Flying back was my first flight ever, so, a very eventful trip for this Canadian.

[Smallc]

I'll probably use VIA again....I'm just a bit upset that I had to take the bus and pay for two taxis that I otherwise wouldn't have had to.

[William Ashley]

I'll probably use VIA again....I'm just a bit upset that I had to take the bus and pay for two taxis that I otherwise wouldn't have had to.

I'll probably be taking VIA again in a little over a month. Its the most convenient form of travel and the most economical for my starting point and destination.

[Tilter]

Heres a contrasting story.

I spent the last 18 days in China.

I flew economy on Cathay Pacific from Pearson to Hong Kong direct(15hrs).Attended my wifes immigration interview at the Canadian consulate and spent a total of two days there.

Took a one hour ferry boat ride to Macau and stayed on the island of Taipa at the Grandview hotel.From there my wife and I regularly visited the historic areas of Macau by city bus(fare was two Patacas or .30CDN)Stayed there for another 2 days(and no we did not gamble).

Took another ferry to Shenzhen city(mainland China)Visited my brother in law and stayed at his appartment one night.

Next day my wife and I travelled on an overnight sleep on train to ShangCha(12hrs),capital city of Hunan province and where chairman Mao started his political life.2011 is also the 90th anniversary of the communist party in China.We stayed there a couple days and visited a nearby city to see the memorial home of Mao.

From there we travelled on another over night sleep on train to Nanning(14hrs).Capital city of Guangxi province near Vietnam.This is my wifes home town and we stayed at her families home for the rest of my stay.We travelled around the city by cab and city bus(.25CDN fair)

Two days before I departed we took an overnight sleep-on bus back to Shenzhen,bus back to Hong Kong and you get the idea.

Public transportation there is extremely affordable,accesible and popular there.And the food was great!

WWWTT

There are about 2 billion people in China to support public transportation systems. There about 55 people in Canada to do the same--- guess which country will have the best & cheapest system.

[Tilter]

If you don't like Via Rail in eastern Canada imagine how much they like it on the prairies where it is not available.

[Smallc]

I live in the prairies.