Does this look like Canada to you?

[Evening Star]

I saw no point at all to the protests, actually. However, the violation of peoples' civil rights - regardless of how empty their protests may have seemed to me - is easily amongst the most distressing things I've seen in my own country in my lifetime.

[mikedavid00]

It was myself who proclaimed that we are already living in socialism (socialist fascism) and that people THINK they are not because it doesn't 'look like it'.

I professed that in the next 10 years, you will begin to see the new 'police state'. Everyone will be regulated into a paper criminal or law breaker, and there will be huge amounts of police and security waging wars against citizens. The gov't will try to legislate how we cook dinner at home even.

The 'enforcement' (police state) is coming slowly. It's just beginning right now. The 'anti-citizen' mindset from the police and politicians are here and now.

At this point in our history you are on 1 of either 2 sides:

1 - Your are a civilian (you get your money taken from you to pay for the gov't)

2 - You are part of the gov't (your living is achieved through the involuntary 'taking' of money from the civilian)

Which side are you on? Well.. we know this website is part of #2 category. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

#1 will be the ones who will suffer. In any communist or fascist country, #2 is the main goal of any civilian. Everyone just reaches to climb the ladder of an 'elite gov't civil servant'.

So as the police state starts to take shape in the next 10 years, you will see #2 become increasingly tyrannical on #1. A lot of this will be from provinces and local city gov't. You'll witness small business get shut out by taxes and regulations. Everyone will be working with or directly for gov't protected industries or corporations, which now adays, is almost all of them. A socialist, fascist state. A police state where you must obey.

[Scotty]

I saw no point at all to the protests, actually. However, the violation of peoples' civil rights - regardless of how empty their protests may have seemed to me - is easily amongst the most distressing things I've seen in my own country in my lifetime.

I pretty much agree with this. I saw no point at all in the protests, and didn't even agree with much of what they were saying. But the violence and utter disregard for law shown by the police really pissed me off. It really brought to light for me how poorly trained, poorly disciplined, and poorly led the police are, and how casually willing they are to commit acts of brutality, and to break the law, as long as they think they can get away with it.

And again, we're not talking about police beating up pimps or gang members like in the old days, when the police were notorious for 'having a talk' with troublemakers (cherry beach express) back in the old days. We're talking about perfectly law-abiding citizens being beaten and abused by police here, for no particular reason.

[CPCFTW]

It was myself who proclaimed that we are already living in socialism (socialist fascism) and that people THINK they are not because it doesn't 'look like it'.

I professed that in the next 10 years, you will begin to see the new 'police state'. Everyone will be regulated into a paper criminal or law breaker, and there will be huge amounts of police and security waging wars against citizens. The gov't will try to legislate how we cook dinner at home even.

The 'enforcement' (police state) is coming slowly. It's just beginning right now. The 'anti-citizen' mindset from the police and politicians are here and now.

At this point in our history you are on 1 of either 2 sides:

1 - Your are a civilian (you get your money taken from you to pay for the gov't)

2 - You are part of the gov't (your living is achieved through the involuntary 'taking' of money from the civilian)

Which side are you on? Well.. we know this website is part of #2 category. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

#1 will be the ones who will suffer. In any communist or fascist country, #2 is the main goal of any civilian. Everyone just reaches to climb the ladder of an 'elite gov't civil servant'.

So as the police state starts to take shape in the next 10 years, you will see #2 become increasingly tyrannical on #1. A lot of this will be from provinces and local city gov't. You'll witness small business get shut out by taxes and regulations. Everyone will be working with or directly for gov't protected industries or corporations, which now adays, is almost all of them. A socialist, fascist state. A police state where you must obey.

I would say I disagree because the Canadian people wouldn't stand for the private sector being too oppressed. We are already witnessing a backlash against the unions. However, when I read people like Bloodyminded vehemently claiming that the median income in Canada is close to 70k, I start to have my doubts. Maybe the bleeding heart lefties will be blinded to the plight of the private sector until it is too late. Here's to hoping the Harper government continues to gouge the socialist state we've created.

[bloodyminded]

However, when I read people like Bloodyminded vehemently claiming that the median income in Canada is close to 70k, I start to have my doubts. Maybe the bleeding heart lefties will be blinded to the plight of the private sector until it is too late.

Or it might be that bloodyminded said nothing of the sort, ever, and you have him confused with another poster. You see, we bleeding heart lefties, unlike yourself, don't have such literacy issues.

Edited June 26, 2011 by bloodyminded

[CPCFTW]

Or it might be that bloodyminded said nothing of the sort, ever, and you have him confused with another poster. You see, we bleeding heart lefties, unlike yourself, don't have such literacy issues.

Oh it was Battletoads... I'm sorry I got you mixed up. I hope you don't think you're just an irrelevant, anonymous internet poster to me.

Edited June 26, 2011 by CPCFTW

[bloodyminded]

Oh it was Battletoads... I'm sorry I got you mixed up. I hope you don't think you're just an irrelevant, anonymous internet poster to me.

No, I think you're careless with your pronouncements, hostile to accuracy, and see all opponents as a single, interchangeable entity.

[Michael Hardner]

I've no idea of what you spoke about: a secret law passed in illegal fashion and which denies people free speech and outlaws protests near public works. As far as I know, you did indeed imagine it. You want to prosecute McGuinty (and the rest of the Cabinet? The Lieutenant Governor? The Queen?) for something that never happened.

This could be it - from the Globe and Mail.

Premier Dalton McGuinty says public hearings into police actions during the G20 in Toronto will help government understand what to do going forward. But Mr. McGuinty won't apologize for the secret law the Liberal government passed governing police powers to detain and arrest people during the international summit.

[Keepitsimple]

That would be tough, except of late, I see little evidence of this 'self-control'. What I see is if you backtalk a cop you're going to wind up getting a beating, then taken down to a cell for strip searching.

Seems to me that the Vancouver Police were pretty restarined in handling the Stanley Cup hooliganism. The citizens of Vancouver seem to appreciate their efforts.

[CPCFTW]

No, I think you're careless with your pronouncements, hostile to accuracy, and see all opponents as a single, interchangeable entity.

Ok good so we're still friends?

Edited June 26, 2011 by CPCFTW

[bloodyminded]

Ok good so we're still friends?

Sure, why not? Having enemies is a waste of my time.

[Wilber]

Seems to me that the Vancouver Police were pretty restarined in handling the Stanley Cup hooliganism. The citizens of Vancouver seem to appreciate their efforts.

In 94 they were criticized for coming down too hard on rioters, this time some are criticizing them for not being hard enough. The idea that 500 cops could somehow control 100,000 plus rioters and drunk spectators is mission impossible anyway. Riots are no win situation for police not matter what they do.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Wilber

[Shwa]

This could be it - from the Globe and Mail.

Premier Dalton McGuinty says public hearings into police actions during the G20 in Toronto will help government understand what to do going forward. But Mr. McGuinty won't apologize for the secret law the Liberal government passed governing police powers to detain and arrest people during the international summit.

How about this one from the Star in June 2010?

Dalton McGuinty, Bill Blair defend quiet boost in arrest powers

Boosting the arrest powers by using the Public Works Protection Act and making perfectly legal specifics using ONTARIO REGULATION 233/10 which was revoked as a standing regulation on June 28th, 2010.

So now read the story from the Star, above, and then the Globe story you linked. Once you have finished reading the stories answer me this: what "secret" law??

[Wilber]

The salary for a 1st class police constable in Toronto was just raised to $91,000. And virtually all police get scads of overtime. Prior to the raise, 1300 police officers in Toronto made more than $100,000 last year.

Police require 12-24 weeks of training in Canada.

Hairdressers require 45 weeks in community college.

Do haidressers require at least two years of college and do they take the equivalent of first year law in that six months along with everything else BC municipal police are required to learn during that six months of training?

[August1991]

Nonsense suit? Apparently, based on zero evidence, August, you've already decided that there's no substance to his complaints.

This sort of attitude helps explain why the police in Quebec are so out of control, and do whatever the hell they want.

I wonder if you'd be so casual if you were jerked out of a car, arrested, stripped and paraded around naked in front of all and sundry, female or male, then thrown into a cell naked. All to be released after a dozen hours with no charge.

If Salvati is successful in his suit, and wins $1.2 million damages (let's say), what will change?

Nothing.

Canadian taxpayers will pay the $1.2 million settlement, legal fees for both sides and the various court costs. That's exactly what happened in the Mahar Arar case and is now happening across Canada in various tribunals. Canadian taxpayers are paying for a growing lottery/litigation industry. And the problem is that the decisions will have no more effect than a lottery winning.

At least in the US, such a crazy litigation system means that some people change their behaviour.

August and KIS, regardless of this one case, there is plenty of video evidence of police beating or shooting totally peaceful protesters or even bystanders. It is completely indefensible. What is the defence for the sheer number of arrests? For the treatment of people with medical conditions?

The Black Bloc was the provocation?? No one has estimated their number to be anything close to significant. Besides, when there actually was vandalism, the police were thoroughly ineffective at doing anything about it.

If you go near an idiot burning a police car, then I think the police are fully justified in arresting you.

Link.

Edited June 26, 2011 by August1991

[Remiel]

I have heard once before from an officer I knew years ago that it was not, in their opinion, the job of police officers to worry about who did right and who did wrong; that it was a judges job to sort that out. When I think about it, that officer might have well have said, "As far as we are concerned they are all guilty," for that is the sort of effect that attitude creates.

[eyeball]

The more of this stuff I'm seeing, from Toronto, from Ottawa, from BC, and Alberta, about police misbehavior, about police attacking and assaulting perfectly innocent people with impunity, the more I feel we really need to reign in police. And I'm coming tot his conclusion from a perspective which has always been "Support your local police".

Notice how more of "this stuff" has been attended by the growth of a get-tough crack-down attitude that politicians have successfully cultivated in our society. Now we're poised to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on new prisons and create new laws with which to fill them. No doubt we'll be needing more police too.

I recall when the phrases crack-down and get-tough in the context of the police were usually reserved for states with little if any respect for human and civil right's. How they became a call to arms not to mention the prevailing attitude in Canada is anyone's guess (god-damn leftists probably). I think we need to check this attitude before it gets any farther out of control but considering the high expectations if not fervent hopes for a far less lenient justice system and a far harsher incarceration regime in Canada these days I suspect that ship may have already sailed.

[Tilter]

After reading about 1/4 of the posts on this subject I have decided that the answer is NO.

I don't know where the whiners were raised or the lenience they were shown by their parents, peers & teachers but whatever idiocy was preached by the former has shown up big time in the actions & thots of the posters who have nothing better to do than kiss the asses of anarchists and I suspect that some of them were at the G20 & the Vancouver riots.

What kind of a warped system would foster the rights of civil terrorists over the rights of the police? To condemn the police for making arrests of people who were told first, not to be there or get arrested, don't commit riotous acts or you will be arrested, don't cross certain places or be arrested and don't do certain acts or you'll be arrested. What part of "be arrested" didn't they (and you scofflaws) understand? Was it the Be--- No, some of them were supposed to have graduated kindergarten & I'm pretty sure that "BE" is covered in Sesame Street and all those arrested were likely familiar with the word "arrested" as, being professional shit disturbers, they had undergone the very act a few times.

A good thot for you complainers is--- when you need a cop ---- call a rioter.

[Michael Hardner]

So now read the story from the Star, above, and then the Globe story you linked. Once you have finished reading the stories answer me this: what "secret" law??

I don't get this ... sarcasm ?

[Scotty]

Seems to me that the Vancouver Police were pretty restarined in handling the Stanley Cup hooliganism. The citizens of Vancouver seem to appreciate their efforts.

They were incompetent, much like the Toronto police, who stood back and let rioters burn things, then hammered innocent, peaceful protesters the next day.

[Scotty]

After reading about 1/4 of the posts on this subject I have decided that the answer is NO.

I don't know where the whiners were raised or the lenience they were shown by their parents, peers & teachers but whatever idiocy was preached by the former has shown up big time in the actions & thots of the posters who have nothing better to do than kiss the asses of anarchists and I suspect that some of them were at the G20 & the Vancouver riots.

What kind of a warped system would foster the rights of civil terrorists over the rights of the police? To condemn the police for making arrests of people who were told first, not to be there or

Blah, blah blah said the man who knows nothing whatsoever about what happened, is too lazy to investigate, and is reflexively defending the police no matter what they do and no matter who they do it to.

Thanks for adding so much insight to the discussion.

[RNG]

Blah, blah blah said the man who knows nothing whatsoever about what happened, is too lazy to investigate, and is reflexively defending the police no matter what they do and no matter who they do it to.

Thanks for adding so much insight to the discussion.

So you condone criminal activity. Under what circumstances? And when isn't it? They broke the law. Let them rot in jail.

Edited June 26, 2011 by RNG

[Scotty]

If Salvati is successful in his suit, and wins $1.2 million damages (let's say), what will change?

Nothing.

Toronto doesn't have a great deal of money, nor do the police have all they need. Every lawsuit which costs them millions of dollars gives them reason to start cracking down on violent police and their lazy-ass, thoughtless supervisors, and maybe improve training requirements. Hell, give Salvatori a hundred million. That'll make the idiots start looking at better training and control of cops.

If you go near an idiot burning a police car, then I think the police are fully justified in arresting you.

And I suppose if separatist terrorists are blowing things up the police are perfectly right to start arresting all separatist sympathizers, hmm?

[Scotty]

So you condone criminal activity. Under what circumstances? And when isn't it? They broke the law. Let them rot in jail.

How can you possibly have read anything in this topic and not be aware that the vast, vast majority of people arrested and beaten did NOT in fact, break any law, had no intentions of breaking any law, and were simply going about their business in a peaceful, law abiding way?

[RNG]

How can you possibly have read anything in this topic and not be aware that the vast, vast majority of people arrested and beaten did NOT in fact, break any law, had no intentions of breaking any law, and were simply going about their business in a peaceful, law abiding way?

Rightly or wrongly, a law we have is that an order of a police officer is to be obeyed. We have ample opportunity to challenge that order in a peacefull way through the courts. The "protesters" are just there to make trouble.

The biggest question I have always had is what the G-8/G-20 protesters are against, and what do they think they can accomplish? Losers.