TimG Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 That's part of the redistributive race to the bottom the free marketeers wantWhy is that any worse where you look to use government power to protect your high wages while those people who don't benefit from such government largess are faced with higher bills and a lower standard of living? It is all about greed. Whether it is union greed or corporate greed it is all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Walk a mile in my shoes before you start with that crap... Been there, done that. Don't play the martyr with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 That 8.1B for 11.7% of GM gives GM a 69B valuation. They are now trading at a valuation of 45B (ie. 11.7% is worth 5.2B). It will be a long time before Canada recoups losses from the bailout, and even when they do, the annualized real rate of return will be laughable. Not to mention Canada has effectively borrowed money for the bailout so we purchased this equity stake on margin (that 8B could have went towards debt repayment for a greater ROI). And why is that? Why did they bail out GM and make such a terrible, horrifying deal to do so? Basically we borrowed at our cost of debt (I'm not exactly sure how government debt repayment works.. I assume they just don't roll over short term bonds, but it would be around 1.5-2% if debt repayment is at current yield levels) to finance an investment in an asset that has realized a -36% ROI. -36% when - today? The government bailed out the CAW, plain and simple. Deal with reality instead of trying to spin the truth. The government bailed out General Motors "plain and simple" and saved a huge contributor - via their products & workforce - to the economy. Furthermore the "bailout" was paid back by the funds used to purchase majority equity in the company - just like any other company would. Deal with reality instead of ignoring the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Today, with the Canada Post locking out the workers, I say that's really unfair in bargaining. How can they reach an agreement when oneside has more power than the other. I think the government wants to privatized Canada Post and wants to get the public angry at the workers that the public will be agreeing with the government. I guess selling it will help pay on the Tories deficeit, won't have CEOs with large wages and bonuses. Downside of it it won't be a Federal offense to destroy to mail or any part of it and all the other legal laws will be gone. Time will only tell what the Tories want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Today, with the Canada Post locking out the workers, I say that's really unfair in bargaining. How can they reach an agreement when oneside has more power than the other. I think the government wants to privatized Canada Post and wants to get the public angry at the workers that the public will be agreeing with the government. I guess selling it will help pay on the Tories deficeit, won't have CEOs with large wages and bonuses. Downside of it it won't be a Federal offense to destroy to mail or any part of it and all the other legal laws will be gone. Time will only tell what the Tories want to do. Locking striking employees out is a bargaining strategy, not some thin edge of the wedge towards privatization. Striking unions get locked out all the time since it brings pressure to bear on the union membership as a whole. It is a sound strategy and very fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Locking striking employees out is a bargaining strategy, not some thin edge of the wedge towards privatization. Striking unions get locked out all the time since it brings pressure to bear on the union membership as a whole. It is a sound strategy and very fair. Good attitude. Negotiate any good treaty concessions lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think it would be great for the union to buy a majority share in Air Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Today, with the Canada Post locking out the workers, I say that's really unfair in bargaining. How can they reach an agreement when oneside has more power than the other. I think the government wants to privatized Canada Post and wants to get the public angry at the workers that the public will be agreeing with the government. I guess selling it will help pay on the Tories deficeit, won't have CEOs with large wages and bonuses. Downside of it it won't be a Federal offense to destroy to mail or any part of it and all the other legal laws will be gone. Time will only tell what the Tories want to do. The public have been angry with the workers for years. They are the most spoiled of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think it would be great for the union to buy a majority share in Air Canada. Are you suggesting all companies with unions should be union owned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Are you suggesting all companies with unions should be union owned? I find it interesting that in Germany for sure, and I think some other countries, the union is represented on the board of directors of companies. This seems to lessen conflict when the union actually understands the situations that companies face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I find it interesting that in Germany for sure, and I think some other countries, the union is represented on the board of directors of companies. This seems to lessen conflict when the union actually understands the situations that companies face. It happens here occasionally, usually as some kind of compensation for big cuts taken by employees. AC employees got one seat on the BOD for their last round of concessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 It would be nice if the unions bought a piece of the action. It would give them a vested interest in the financial well being of their employer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 It would be nice if the unions bought a piece of the action. It would give them a vested interest in the financial well being of their employer. As if having a job there is not a vested interest? If the employer doesn't do well financially, your job, benefits, etc, could all be in peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 As if having a job there is not a vested interest? If the employer doesn't do well financially, your job, benefits, etc, could all be in peril. And yet two of my in-laws (thank god they weren't blood relatives or I'd kill myself) were strong union members and would not look at amortization costs or any other expenses. They looked at total revenue and wages paid out and that was the basis of their bitches. Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 It would be nice if the unions bought a piece of the action. It would give them a vested interest in the financial well being of their employer. Every employee has a vested interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Every employee has a vested interest. And they are typically too freaking dumb to know what that would be. Edited June 21, 2011 by RNG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 And they are typically too freaking dumb to know what that would be. Yup, scum of the earth they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Been there, done that. Don't play the martyr with me. You have'nt done sweet jack shite as far as I'm concened...Your "self made man" oil pumper tough guy/crybaby act does'nt wash with me either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 You have'nt done sweet jack shite as far as I'm concened...Your "self made man" oil pumper tough guy/crybaby act does'nt wash with me either... Damn you're really tough, internet bullyboy. So go and suck on something I think you really want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Damn you're really tough, internet bullyboy. So go and suck on something I think you really want. Just as tough as a pissant who calls someone a liar or a thief (and a dogf%$#er to boot) on the same internet.. You're clueless yes man clown who probably has a well worn set of company embroidered knee pads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Just as tough as a pissant who calls someone a liar or a thief (and a dogf%$#er to boot) on the same internet.. You're clueless yes man clown who probably has a well worn set of company embroidered knee pads... Very eloquent. Thank you. Asshat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Yes, yes it would appear he is going after the Unions. Especially if they can legislate a settlement. It's actually pretty LOL that the government's settlement is lower than CP's last offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) It's also pretty convenient that the Conservative government said it would not introduce back to work legislation as long as mail is still moving, then Canada Post locks out its workers the very next day, only to have the government legislate a better deal for them. It's an affront to the workers' right to bargain collectively and the entire bargaining process. Edited June 23, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 They are way to far a part to bargain. The pension is unsustainable and that appears to be the #1 issue. A 11% pay raise for an industry that's slowly going extinct is unreasonable. Oh BTW when I returned home from work yesterday I found a fistful of flyers underneath my mailbox. Clearly the makers of these things have found a way around the Postal strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 It's an affront to the workers' right to bargain collectively and the entire bargaining process. Is that the same right that allows uneducated, unskilled employees of essential public services and crown corporations to shake tax payers down for salaries and benefits they'd never get in the private sector? I for one, am totally outraged..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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