The Bible

[cybercoma]

A visual guide to contradictions in the Bible

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662676/infographic-of-the-day-what-the-bible-got-wrong

What was that you were saying about "facts"?

[betsy]

A visual guide to contradictions in the Bible

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662676/infographic-of-the-day-what-the-bible-got-wrong

What was that you were saying about "facts"?

Phooooey!

What was dat? I was expecting some arguments or evidences negating the Bible facts - supported by science - that are listed here.

Those are just some grays and a whole bunch of red arcs! Somebody must've been playing with the new hi-tech equipment. Just like when a teener gets a new-generation Playstation or XBox. Ooooooh, check out the graphics! See what it can do. That's just eye-candy...no substance!

[cybercoma]

All that red shows you where the Bible, your supposed source of facts, contradicts itself. Pretty tough to find facts in something so contradictory.

[betsy]

Most atheists were raised in religious families. I'm sure they have absolutely no problem grasping the concept of God.

Well I do hope Dre didn't see that as an insult because I didn't mean it as an insult. It just struck me since another poster (Moonlight Graham?) asked a similar question. They are - at least that's what it seems to me - responding as atheists.

Anyway, being raised in a religious family doesn't necessarily mean fully embracing and/or understanding the faith...or what is faith. Some can just go through the motion (consciously or unconsciously), and some have doubts even when they are neck-deep in religion.

It's people like you that are evidently incapable of grasping the concept that most people don't make decisions and live their lives based on a whim of faith.

But then, it wasn't me who was asking "who created the Creator," was it? I was just responding to the question(s).

And what are you on about that statement, "incapable of grasping the concept that most people don't make decisions and live their lives based on a whim of faith?"

You're inside a thread that's titled, "The Bible" with the description stating, "Sciences, Prophecies, studies/interpretations."

What's that got to do with this discussion?

Edited May 15, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

All that red shows you where the Bible, your supposed source of facts, contradicts itself. Pretty tough to find facts in something so contradictory.

Bring me something that contradicts the Biblical facts that are listed here which are supported by science! In details. Not some arcs or arrows or rainbow colors...or any digitalized gimmickry!

Edited May 15, 2011 by betsy

[cybercoma]

LOTS of contradictions, betsy.

[cybercoma]

What's the point in showing you scientific evidence? You don't need it. You have faith.

You can lead a horse to water, as they say...

[betsy]

LOTS of contradictions, betsy.

Then spell them out...in details! Words. Written words. English words!

I expect you to confront the details that are given here...not some typical sweeping attacks on the Bible...or the source. Face the materials given, and de-bunk them!

Edited May 15, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

What's the point in showing you scientific evidence? You don't need it. You have faith.

You can lead a horse to water, as they say...

Happy reading. Bye-bye.

[betsy]

FACT: Hydrological Cycle or Water Cycle

Before science, people mustve seen the rain fall and rivers flowing into the sea and yet did not understand the rains origin and why the sea level never rose.

Modern science now understands the hydrological cycle which consists of evaporation, atmospheric transportation, distillation, and precipitation.

Please take note that Ecclesiastes 1:4-7 is dealing with the descriptions of cycles.

Ecclesiastes 1:7

4 Generations come and generations go,

but the earth remains forever.

5 The sun rises and the sun sets,

and hurries back to where it rises.

6 The wind blows to the south

and turns to the north;

round and round it goes,

ever returning on its course.

7 All streams flow into the sea,

yet the sea is never full.

To the place the streams come from,

there they return again.

Jeremiah 10: 13

13 When he thunders, the waters in the heavens roar;

he makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth.

He sends lightning with the rain

and brings out the wind from his storehouses.

Amos 9:6

6 he builds his lofty palace[a] in the heavens

and sets its foundation on the earth;

he calls for the waters of the sea

and pours them out over the face of the land

the LORD is his name.

Job 36:27-28

27 He draws up the drops of water,

which distill as rain to the streams[c];

28 the clouds pour down their moisture

and abundant showers fall on mankind.

Edited May 16, 2011 by betsy

[cybercoma]

Then spell them out...in details! Words. Written words. English words!

I expect you to confront the details that are given here...not some typical sweeping attacks on the Bible...or the source. Face the materials given, and de-bunk them!

The title of the thread says 'The Bible'. I have shown you over 400 contradictions within The Bible itself, without resorting to anything outside of your own faith-system. Since you ignore any evidence that doesn't fit within your narrow sphere of faith-based reasoning, I have done you the honour of keeping within that restricted band of knowledge. Meanwhile, you're sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "I can't hear you," yet again.

You're entirely hopeless. No one can reason with you using evidence from outside your faith and no one can show you the contradictions, inconsistencies, and blatantly false "facts" that exist within your faith. In other words, you are closed-minded and pig-headed. New information cannot change your mind, regardless of whether it fits into your narrow world-view or not. My dear betsy, there is absolutely no point in trying to "prove" anything to you, since you don't listen to anything other than the voices in your head anyway.

[betsy]

The title of the thread says 'The Bible'. I have shown you over 400 contradictions within The Bible itself, without resorting to anything outside of your own faith-system.

400? Where are they???

Are you sure you didn't post them elsewhere in other forums?

Since you ignore any evidence that doesn't fit within your narrow sphere of faith-based reasoning, I have done you the honour of keeping within that restricted band of knowledge.

Well I guess you're confusing me with somebody else. A far as I know, ther's no so-called evidence to ignore, since you've not given any evidence at all. What you've presented is a graph of some sort that shows arcs and colors! If you're saying they are contradictions within the Bible, then why don't you explain specifically what they are so we can discuss them!

Anybody can pick out a statement from the Bible and say..."here! This one contradicts that one!" And guess what, usually they are taking the passage out of context just so they can say it's a contradiction. Bible detractors are prolific quote-miners!

One favorite quote-mined passage is about sanitation! They say Jesus promotes the practice of not washing your hands - of course they just took that one line and disregarded the whole paragraph and thus, taken His words out of context!

What do you think will happen if I go marching in TalkOrigin and present them with a graph showing nothing but arrows, arcs and rainbows, saying...."Here! Here is my evidence that you're all full of c**p!" I'll be laughed at and marched right back out of that site and they'll hang a note that sez "stay out!"

We're supposed to be in a forum. Not in an "art" gallery.

Meanwhile, you're sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "I can't hear you," yet again.

Whose fingers are stuck in whose ears and shouting "I can't hear you?"

You're entirely hopeless. No one can reason with you using evidence from outside your faith and no one can show you the contradictions, inconsistencies, and blatantly false "facts" that exist within your faith. In other words, you are closed-minded and pig-headed. New information cannot change your mind, regardless of whether it fits into your narrow world-view or not. My dear betsy, there is absolutely no point in trying to "prove" anything to you, since you don't listen to anything other than the voices in your head anyway.

So I'm hopeless. Entirely hopeless. Close-minded. Pig-headed. Narrow-minded.

No new information can change my mind. My ears are plugged. That's a very definitive assessment you've got on me. You're so conclusive about that. You're saying I am a waste of your time.....

...then so long already. Good-bye. Adieu. What's with all this long and tearful farewell....

Edited May 16, 2011 by betsy

[GostHacked]

So I'm hopeless. Entirely hopeless. Close-minded. Pig-headed. Narrow-minded.

No new information can change my mind. My ears are plugged. That's a very definitive assessment you've got on me. You're so conclusive about that. You're saying I am a waste of your time.....

...then so long already. Good-bye. Adieu. What's with all this long and tearful farewell....

Eventually anyone with logic or reasoning will be ignored by you. I know you've put me on ignore long ago because you could not handle it. This really shows that your 'willingness' to debate anything is not one tiny bit sincere at all.

[Saipan]

This really shows that your 'willingness' to debate anything is not one tiny bit sincere at all.

Are YOU willing to debate?

How does Mother Nature work?

Where did she came from?

[scouterjim]

Can you cite one ancient book like the Bible containing some "silly" beliefs that's now being proven by science to be true?

I can point out many silly stories in the Bible. Creation in 7 days is one. Adam and Eve is another. Cain going out and finding a wife when there was only supposedly him, his parents and the brother he killed. Where did she come from?

[GostHacked]

Are YOU willing to debate?

I have been willing, she end up ignoring me, so not much else I can do there.

How does Mother Nature work?

There are thousands of scientists that can answer that. Most of them can do it without the bible. However, I am not a scientist so your question can't very well be explained by me.

Where did she came from?

The thing is, since science cannot or may not be able to answer that (and many other things at the moment), the debate goes to, 'well god did it' ... and that hardly leads to more debate.

[WIP]

FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE

According to science, the universe is expanding, or "stretching out." There are at least 11 passages in the Bible written by five different authors that talked about God "stretching out the heavens," and all were made in the context of creation. These are all taken from the New International Version.

FACT: using bible verses to fit a posteriori conclusions based on science

Once again...for the umpteenth time, your sources..which profess their hatred for godless science, are depending on that same science to justify their faith.

I have a challenge on this one: find me one early example, prior to the development of the Big Bang Theory, where theologians, priests or ministers, were teaching that the Universe was expanding! In light of present scientific understanding, fundamentalist preachers use a flimsy argument that "God stretching out the heavens" was describing the Big Bang. This is nothing more than a joke, that anyone else can never take seriously, and it feeds my thinking that fundamentalists' desperation for outside proof for their beliefs means that they are hanging by a thread, and they fear they have nothing to back them up with!

[WIP]

The title of the thread says 'The Bible'. I have shown you over 400 contradictions within The Bible itself, without resorting to anything outside of your own faith-system. Since you ignore any evidence that doesn't fit within your narrow sphere of faith-based reasoning, I have done you the honour of keeping within that restricted band of knowledge. Meanwhile, you're sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "I can't hear you," yet again.

You're entirely hopeless. No one can reason with you using evidence from outside your faith and no one can show you the contradictions, inconsistencies, and blatantly false "facts" that exist within your faith. In other words, you are closed-minded and pig-headed. New information cannot change your mind, regardless of whether it fits into your narrow world-view or not. My dear betsy, there is absolutely no point in trying to "prove" anything to you, since you don't listen to anything other than the voices in your head anyway.

My feelings are that fundamentalists have loaded the dice and gone for broke! The cost of being wrong to too great to contemplate. I'm thinking that next week, when once again, another sect of fundamentalist end-time believers, certain that they know the exact day when Jesus is coming back for them...are proven wrong, when May 21 dawns and passes into night without the rapture, are not going to say 'wow, I really blew that one...I better re-examine everything I thought I believed in.' That conversation is not going to happen! Instead it's going to be:'I was right, but my calculations are slightly off, the rapture really begins on ______', or 'I was right, the rapture happened and Jesus is here, but we just can't see him yet till the Tribulation is concluded' -- ref. Jehovah's Witnesses on that one.

Many of us who have left fundamentalist religions first started having doubts in our teens that the church dogma and teachings...especially the ones that were contrary to the stuff we were learning about science at schools, kept quiet, and started slowly searching for alternatives on our own. The price for denying church doctrine meant being banished from the little community, so I waited until I was old enough to be out on my own anyway, and they had no power over me. I've heard similar stories from other youth who've fled fundamentalist cults and religions.

In the end, I think it comes down to matter of our basic personality. Some people just totally lack any degree of curiosity, and are perfect fodder for fundamentalists to fill their minds. Others, want to do their thinking for themselves. The more authoritarian someone is in their thinking, the more likely they are going to be a fundamentalist also; while freethinkers avoid religious fundamentalism and authoritarian political movements as well.

[Saipan]

There are thousands of scientists that can answer that.

What makes you so sure?

The thing is, since science cannot or may not be able to answer that (and many other things at the moment), the debate goes to, 'well god did it' ... and that hardly leads to more debate.

Or The Itself did it, and He was always here

[betsy]

I can point out many silly stories in the Bible. Creation in 7 days is one. Adam and Eve is another. Cain going out and finding a wife when there was only supposedly him, his parents and the brother he killed. Where did she come from?

Wait....one at a time. Let's settle this one before jumping on to the next.

The one thing we definitely know for sure, the Bible is very much still around today as we speak - the continuity and fluidity of its message hardly changed, if it ever did at all.

On top of that, we've got modern science continuously proving it true.

A great many superstitions and silly beliefs are still around today, so that proves nothing.

Can you cite one ancient book like the Bible containing some "silly" beliefs that's now being proven by science to be true?

You dismissed my assertion above as to why the Bible is unique:

All through the ages, its message hardly changed, if it ever did at all - maintaining its fluidity and continuity from the time of Abraham to the last Apostle who wrote his entry.

We're talking so many centuries and generations between the Old Testament and the New Testament alone!

The Bible is not only very much around right now - it's also consistently the best-selling book!

Furthermore, we're seeing that science is supporting what the Bible said.....or should I say, the Bible is showing us that science has just discovered what the Bible has been saying all along!

You dismissed that by saying,

A great many superstitions and silly beliefs are still around today, so that proves nothing.

So to back up your claim, I want you to cite ONE - only ONE - ancient book similar to the Bible which contains "silly" beliefs and/or statements that's been proven by science.

Edited May 16, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

FACT: using bible verses to fit a posteriori conclusions based on science

Once again...for the umpteenth time, your sources..which profess their hatred for godless science, are depending on that same science to justify their faith.

First of all let's get this clear. The Bible is not proving that science is right....it is science that's proving the Bible is right!

You're always hitting on my sources! Never mind my sources! Tackle the issue(s) directly - and as you can see they are many.

I have a challenge on this one: find me one early example, prior to the development of the Big Bang Theory, where theologians, priests or ministers, were teaching that the Universe was expanding!

WIP, you're forgetting one very crucial fact:

FACT:

The word "expanding" got coined by the scientists only in 1929 (?)! It describes what they discovered. The factual phrase of God "stretches/stretched the heavens" is a whole lot older than science "expanding" term!

The question you should ask is:

Of all words available for use....how come science used that word, "EXPANDING?"

You'd think that evolutionist scientists would avoid using that word at all cost! But of course they didn't avoid using that term "expanding." You know why? They can't!

Did it ever occur to you that God had something to do with that?

In light of present scientific understanding, fundamentalist preachers use a flimsy argument that "God stretching out the heavens" was describing the Big Bang.

This is not about the theory of the Big Bang! The theory of the Big Bang is nothing.

It could just as easily been another theory....with eventually - and inevitably - the same result!

It will support what the Bible said.

This is nothing more than a joke, that anyone else can never take seriously, and it feeds my thinking that fundamentalists' desperation for outside proof for their beliefs means that they are hanging by a thread, and they fear they have nothing to back them up with!

Whoa! It's not us ordinary folks who discovered that the universe is expanding. It is not us ordinary folks who decided to use that word "expanding." That the word "expanding" accurately supports the Bible phrase - within the right context of creation - God "stretches the heaven," at least 11 times, is not our fault.

The discovery of the expanding universe also means that the universe has a beginning!

I just posted this below, but I think it fits the argument here.

ISAIAH 46:9-11

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say, ‘My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.’

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;

from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.

What I have said, that I will bring about;

what I have planned, that I will do.

God had it all planned. God has His own timetable. He'll follow His own schedule...according to His pleasure. He can use anyone, or anything - including science - to fulfill His purpose.

Edited May 17, 2011 by betsy

[cybercoma]

Or The Itself did it, and He was always here

I've got one question for you:

What makes you so sure?

[betsy]

FACT: Science remains baffled - Part 2: .. Knowledge and understanding of our beginning trickles down ever so slowly.

This is partly inspired by the expanding universe.

With all the high technology and advanced science, all the other discoveries in various areas that affect us – health and well-being, environment, etc.. - practically zoom by. There's hardly any day that goes without someone discovering something somewhere. Yet the answer to our beginning seem as elusive as ever. Knowledge trickles down. Appetites for more are whetted when scientists come up with theories of various sort that shows some promise that this could be it, only to hit a brickwall or get stumped.

The footnotes/reference I posted previously was so fascinating. You could feel the electricity of expectations that didn't pan out, the confusions, bafflement and even awe.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=30

You must wonder as I do why with all the advancement in other areas, how come we don't understand how it all began. I read this passage this morning:

ISAIAH 46:9-11

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say, ‘My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.’

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;

from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.

What I have said, that I will bring about;

what I have planned, that I will do.

God had it all planned. God has His own timetable. He'll follow His own schedule...according to His pleasure. He can use anyone, or anything - including science - to fulfill His purpose.

Edited May 17, 2011 by betsy

[Saipan]

I've got one question for you:

I'm not. Are you?

[Moonlight Graham]

Let me ask you this: How do you think the universe came to be?

Even if i knew i wouldn't tell you. I'd write a best-selling book about it and you'd have to pay to find out. I'd make a fortune, just like God. (yes, God is getting royalty cheques from Bible sales, he's the master capitalist).