Will Harper keep his word

[Harry]

Several times during the election campaign Harper said that the party that wins the most number of seats gets to form the government.

As it now appears that the NDP will end up winning the most number of seats on Monday, will Harper be true to his word, resign as as Prime Minister, join the coalition of losers, and allow Jack Layton to become Prime Minister?

[Posc Student]

Layton doesn't seem like he's on his way to winning the most seats, however Harper isn't known for keeping his word. The Governor General will decide Harper's job.

[Harry]

Layton doesn't seem like he's on his way to winning the most seats, however Harper isn't known for keeping his word. The Governor General will decide Harper's job.

You are incorrect about the NDP, and about the GG's role initially. It's the Harper's word thing that concerns me the most.

[Wild Bill]

Several times during the election campaign Harper said that the party that wins the most number of seats gets to form the government.

As it now appears that the NDP will end up winning the most number of seats on Monday, will Harper be true to his word, resign as as Prime Minister, join the coalition of losers, and allow Jack Layton to become Prime Minister?

What if? What if?

Well, as long as we're in the realm of the hypothetical, I've met Harper and I believe that he WOULD respect the party who won the most seats!

He would not join any coalition and he most emphatically would NOT pull an Ignatieff and constantly vote to prop up the coalition ruling party!

I believe that he would simply play the role of a proper opposition party until such time as a confidence vote would bring them down. At that point he would have ammunition to tell the voters they need to give HIM a majority!.

Of course, that's just my opinion!

[wyly]

Several times during the election campaign Harper said that the party that wins the most number of seats gets to form the government.

As it now appears that the NDP will end up winning the most number of seats on Monday, will Harper be true to his word, resign as as Prime Minister, join the coalition of losers, and allow Jack Layton to become Prime Minister?

counting your chickens too soon harry, FPTP can fuck everything up...

[Harry]

Obviously this is a "what if" situation but I have been correct all along so far.

[ToadBrother]

Layton doesn't seem like he's on his way to winning the most seats, however Harper isn't known for keeping his word. The Governor General will decide Harper's job.

The incumbent Prime Minister always gets the first chance to form a government in the situation where no one wins a majority. He may decide he cannot, but the ball lands on his lap first, even if his party didn't win the most seats.

[Moonbox]

counting your chickens too soon harry, FPTP can fuck everything up...

FPTP is the best system of government for a federal democracy. Most of the country doesn't want to be governed by Toronto alone. You're voting for who your community/region sends to Parliament. The less energy you spend crying about it the more energy you can spend trying to affect the outcome.

[KeyStone]

FPTP is the best system of government for a federal democracy. Most of the country doesn't want to be governed by Toronto alone. You're voting for who your community/region sends to Parliament. The less energy you spend crying about it the more energy you can spend trying to affect the outcome.

You obviously aren't aware of all of the options.

Proportional representation isn't the only alternative to FPTP.

[KeyStone]

I don't think he would try to form a coalition with the Liberals.

It just doesn't make sense.

Besides which, we're still going to see a Conservative minority - the NDP are picking up percentanges where it doesn't matter. In many ridings, they're going to finish second instead of third, or finish 5,000 votes behind instead of 10,000. The Liberals and Conservatives know which ridings to focus on that are close, and have their resources invested there. In many cases, the NDP have little to no campaign team in the riding.

What I'm curious about, is whether or not the Conservatives would keep their pledge to abolish the Senate, now that they are abusing it as much, if not more than the Liberals did. Harper has already stacked the Senate with cronies, made it apparent that biased reporting and journalism could land you a Senate seat, and used the Senate to defeat motions that he didn't like.

So, it would have been interesting to see the Senate abolished if Harper had a majority. I don't remember them launching a motion on it. They started one on gay marriage, because they had promised it, but somehow Senate reform was forgotten about. Perhaps one of the other parties can start a motion on it.

[ToadBrother]

So, it would have been interesting to see the Senate abolished if Harper had a majority. I don't remember them launching a motion on it. They started one on gay marriage, because they had promised it, but somehow Senate reform was forgotten about. Perhaps one of the other parties can start a motion on it.

Why do people keep thinking that the House of Commons alone can abolish the Senate?

[g_bambino]

Why do people keep thinking that the House of Commons alone can abolish the Senate?

If they squint their eyes and believe hard enough, it will come true!

[ToadBrother]

If they squint their eyes and believe hard enough, it will come true!

The amount of ignorance of our system of government, and even of recent history, just boggles my mind. Statements like "We'll have a referendum to abolish the Senate" or "Will Stephen Harper/Jack Layton/Jesus Christ abolish the Senate like they promised?" indicate a level of ignorance of the constitution that just blows me away.

Worst I'm seeing what appear to be left-of-centre voters, who just a month ago were smashing their fists down decrying Stephen Harper's flagrant attempt to ignore Parliament's constitutional rights now suggesting that Jack Layton could just have this whiz-bang referendum that would somehow do an end-run around the very same damned constitution.

[eyeball]

Why do people keep thinking that the House of Commons alone can abolish the Senate?

It probably has something to do with politicians implying that it can and they will.

Why people keep believing politicians is the real question.

[Battletoads]

I can't see Harper just stepping away from power, he seems like a man obsessed with the spotlight.

[ToadBrother]

It probably has something to do with politicians implying that it can and they will.

Why people keep believing politicians is the real question.

Isn't the whole damned point of our education system to teach people critical thinking and hard facts so that when someone comes along and says "I can deliver you rainbows and unicorns" people can reply "Sod off you stupid bastard."

Come on people, the Constitution is clear. To alter or abolish the Senate requires the House of Commons, the Senate, the Governor General and 2/3s of provinces representing at least 50% of the population. The most the Government can do is negotiate it with the provinces and assure the Senate will back it. If a referendum is to be held, one has to make sure that the provinces will back the results of the referendum, even if the electorate within their own province votes to keep the Senate. I'm not saying it can't be done, but this isn't a flick of the pen situation, this is a situation requiring negotiations, and also the understanding that you may not be able to accomplish it at all.

[Topaz]

What if? What if?

Well, as long as we're in the realm of the hypothetical, I've met Harper and I believe that he WOULD respect the party who won the most seats!

He would not join any coalition and he most emphatically would NOT pull an Ignatieff and constantly vote to prop up the coalition ruling party!

I believe that he would simply play the role of a proper opposition party until such time as a confidence vote would bring them down. At that point he would have ammunition to tell the voters they need to give HIM a majority!.

Of course, that's just my opinion!

I agree with you 100%, Harper wants a majority and he will use his time in opposition to build a case for it, unless the Tory party ask him the resign as leader.

[ToadBrother]

I agree with you 100%, Harper wants a majority and he will use his time in opposition to build a case for it, unless the Tory party ask him the resign as leader.

So what you both are saying is that if the Tories come in with a smaller minority (as seems distinctly possible now), Harper will lead them like lambs to the slaughter over the Throne Speech?

[Wild Bill]

What I'm curious about, is whether or not the Conservatives would keep their pledge to abolish the Senate, now that they are abusing it as much, if not more than the Liberals did. Harper has already stacked the Senate with cronies, made it apparent that biased reporting and journalism could land you a Senate seat, and used the Senate to defeat motions that he didn't like.

When did they ever promise to ABOLISH the Senate? I've never heard that once from the CPC! Many times Harper has talked about reforming it, usually as a bone to his Reform base for something equal, elected and effective. Of course, as long as he's in a minority situation he knows he never would be expected to deliver. Our constitutional amending formula has such impossible to achieve rules to follow that even with a majority it will probably never happen.

It seems strange that every other country with a Constitution put in amending formulae that were reasonably possible to achieve, in order to modify their document to suit changing times or correct overlooked factors in the original version. Canada it seems decided to set down a formula that would be almost impossible to ever achieve in practice!

It sure looks as if the politicians involved wanted to make sure we NEVER changed our Constitution! One can't help but wonder why...

[ToadBrother]

When did they ever promise to ABOLISH the Senate? I've never heard that once from the CPC! Many times Harper has talked about reforming it, usually as a bone to his Reform base for something equal, elected and effective. Of course, as long as he's in a minority situation he knows he never would be expected to deliver. Our constitutional amending formula has such impossible to achieve rules to follow that even with a majority it will probably never happen.

It seems strange that every other country with a Constitution put in amending formulae that were reasonably possible to achieve, in order to modify their document to suit changing times or correct overlooked factors in the original version. Canada it seems decided to set down a formula that would be almost impossible to ever achieve in practice!

It sure looks as if the politicians involved wanted to make sure we NEVER changed our Constitution! One can't help but wonder why...

There's nothing in the amending formula that is all that difficult to achieve. The problems, as I've said repeatedly, are not constitutional, but demographic. Constitutions are supposed to be difficult to amend, particularly in a federated state where you have multiple tiers of semi-sovereign government.

And the constitution has been changed since 1982, but what has failed have been big reform packages (Meech Lake and Charlottetown). That's why I personally advocate (for whatever its worth) not bothering with constitutional packages. Identify something that you can reasonably expect the stakeholders to accept, like, say, allowing the provinces more of a voice in choosing senators, rather than bold and clearly impossible plans like the Triple-E Senate or abolition of the Senate.

But then, that would require politicians to put aside ideological interests in favor of pragmatic ones, and maybe that's a bridge too far.

[Moonlight Graham]

As it now appears that the NDP will end up winning the most number of seats on Monday...

May I suggest not snacking on magic mushrooms on Monday, as the recreational narcotics you were clearly enjoying at the time of writing the above may cause you to *GASP* vote for the villainous Harper himself. This one vote could cost the NDP their certain majority!

[Tilter]

Several times during the election campaign Harper said that the party that wins the most number of seats gets to form the government.

As it now appears that the NDP will end up winning the most number of seats on Monday, will Harper be true to his word, resign as as Prime Minister, join the coalition of losers, and allow Jack Layton to become Prime Minister?

Get serious.

All the NDPeeRS are peeing their pants in gleeful anticipation of the new savior of mankind--- smiling Jack. they have stars in their eyes & hope in their hearts that once again they will have a chance to commit the same financial suicide for the whole country as they did in Ontario. Tough Shit--- Canadians aren't going to let that happen.

[ToadBrother]

Get serious.

All the NDPeeRS are peeing their pants in gleeful anticipation of the new savior of mankind--- smiling Jack. they have stars in their eyes & hope in their hearts that once again they will have a chance to commit the same financial suicide for the whole country as they did in Ontario. Tough Shit--- Canadians aren't going to let that happen.

Or maybe they are...

[Tilter]

Or maybe they are...

& maybe Joe Bzcxk%7& will bring his black cloud to jack's tent & squash any hopes he had of being King.

(Ya hafta be old and have seen a lot of elections to know who Joe Bzcxk%7 is) Remember the state of Flatbush & Papa Yokum?

[Mr.Canada]

As it now appears that the NDP will end up winning the most number of seats on Monday

How does it appear this way? All polls show them in second place nationally.