game of thrones

[-1=e^ipi]

Is it just me, or is Daenerys about to start screwing up? She seems to have taken on the idea of justice being 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth' when she decided to crucify those 163 civilians. What if some of those civilians had useful information? What if some of those civilians did nothing wrong? Won't crucifying the civilians upset family members and cause future revolts? To quote Ghandi, 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'.

[Boges]

Is it just me, or is Daenerys about to start screwing up? She seems to have taken on the idea of justice being 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth' when she decided to crucify those 163 civilians. What if some of those civilians had useful information? What if some of those civilians did nothing wrong? Won't crucifying the civilians upset family members and cause future revolts? To quote Ghandi, 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'.

She's bought into her own hype. She didn't listen to Ser Barriston who thought kindness would go a lot further in ruling than vengeance.

I think the irony is that she owes her success to freeing slaves (and dragons of course) where in Westeros, where it would appear everyone is pretty much free, she'll have to win over hearts and mind not just break chains.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Boges

[kimmy]

That was some powerful acting, especially by Ms. Christie. The progression of Jamie's character into an honourable "oath keeper" adds proof that the rape scene was really just a directorial mistake.

I dunno, it could be seen as marking his their break. For him maybe it was something that caused him to realize he'd become sick, reached a low point which causes him to realize he needs to change.

Last week it made it seem like he basically "hate-****ed" her, pardon the language... this week he shows up and calls her "your grace" and she calls him "lord commander" and there is palpable coldness between them. I actually find that her coldness toward him makes far more sense if last week's hookup wasn't consensual.

I regard to Jaime, I don't think that it actually changes things much whether it was consensual. Almost everyone on this show has both their good qualities and bad, except for Joffrey (who had no redeeming qualities at all) and for a handful of characters (Ser Davos, Brienne, Sam Tarley...) whose warts we haven't seen (yet...)

Jaime's great flaw is obviously his obsession with Cersei... everything he's done wrong on the show, from defenestrating Bran in the pilot episode,right up through forcing himself on her last week, branches from that. He hucked a young boy out a window to protect his sexual relationship with her, the idea that he could force himself on her sexually doesn't seem that far fetched.

The need to hide the crystalline form of the strangler poison in jewelry (necklace in the show, hairnet in the books) was never explained. It's not like the royal guests were being searched.

Handy, inconspicuous, easy to deliver, no chance of getting caught holding a vial... you certainly wouldn't want to be seen palming a vial a few minutes before somebody dies from poison.

However, having Sansa wear deadly poison around her neck for a week or however long it was... that seems pretty risky. What if she's one of those people who sucks on her jewelry, or what if the poison dissolves in her sweat on a warm day, or ...

He's old enough to be doing back flips over the prospect of their next secret meeting. Still I think he is supposed to be only 8 or 9 at this point, which is young enough for the scene to be a little creepy.

The young characters on the TV show were all made older than they are in the book-- I think Robb was 15 when he became King of the North, Sansa is 11, and so on. In a historical medieval setting, it's not a stretch that teenagers have adult roles and responsibilities. But I think they (wisely) decided that TV audiences would be uncomfortable with seeing characters who are essentially children involved in these adult stories. It seems likely that Tommen was also likewise boosted in age from what he's said to be in the book.

-k

[-1=e^ipi]

for a handful of characters (Ser Davos, Brienne, Sam Tarley...) whose warts we haven't seen (yet...)

Davos was a smuggler.

Sam is fat, lazy and a wimp.

Brienne overvalues oaths and vows.

However, having Sansa wear deadly poison around her neck for a week or however long it was... that seems pretty risky. What if she's one of those people who sucks on her jewelry, or what if the poison dissolves in her sweat on a warm day, or ...

Wasn't the poison inside the glass beads?

[Boges]

Was watching the episode again last night. I'm convinced Maergery has a necklace of death too. Lady Ollenna adjusts her necklace as she's admitting to offing Joffery.

Who's next to die in King's Landing?

[Mighty AC]

Wasn't the poison inside the glass beads?

In the books the plant the 'strangler' poison comes from is found near one of the free cities. It is processed into a crystal form that resembles jewels.

[Boges]

Warged Hodor freakin' pwns!!!

Other than the finals scenes at Craster's Keep (which I'm lead to believe isn't even in the books) everything else last night was looking back at season's past.

- Dany finds all the town's she's "liberated" have lapsed back into slavery.

- Arya waxes prophetic about Syrio

- We go back to the Eyrie. Also find out the Lysa killed John Arryan. Meaning Littlefinger caused the genesis of all the King's Landing's events in the show as Ned was sent to replace John.

- We're reminded again that Cersei's daughter was sent to Dorne (I had totally forgotten about that)

Oh and everything thinks Tommen will be a swell king, so I guess it's a good idea Dany didn't choose now to invade.

[Boges]

Something interesting to ponder:

Bran killed the guy who crippled the guy who crippled him. Weird Karma eh?

[kimmy]

Other than the finals scenes at Craster's Keep (which I'm lead to believe isn't even in the books) everything else last night was looking back at season's past.

- Dany finds all the town's she's "liberated" have lapsed back into slavery.

- Arya waxes prophetic about Syrio

- We go back to the Eyrie. Also find out the Lysa killed John Arryan. Meaning Littlefinger caused the genesis of all the King's Landing's events in the show as Ned was sent to replace John.

- We're reminded again that Cersei's daughter was sent to Dorne (I had totally forgotten about that)

That's an interesting point. We also got Ghost back. I wonder if Arya will get her wolf back one of these days. (Sansa's wolf is gone forever, but lives on in our hearts... and in Sophie Turner's back yard. )

Arya's death list was also kind of a trip down memory lane. I was surprised the Hound was on her list, and had to think about their history. I recall now that way back early in season 1 in the episode where Sansa's wolf was killed, he killed her friend (or at least brought his corpse back to camp). I was also surprised that he was so hard on her.

The scenes at the Aerie were creepy. Sansa seems doomed to be trapped at the whim of crazy-people.

Once again we get a rare glimpse of Cersei's human side. Her scenes with Margaery and with Oberyn showed the softer, vulnerable side that she keeps hidden. I assume that her suddenly conciliatory tone with Margaery is because she knows that despite what she thinks of Margaery, the Lannisters need the Tyrells as an ally. Despite her grief she seems almost relieved that Joffrey's psychotic antics are at an end.

Hodor!

Tywin's admission that the Lannister gold mines have run dry puts even more importance on the growing issue involving the Iron Bank. "A Lannister always pays his debts" may end up being their epitaph.

Road-trips involving unlikely pals seems like an ongoing thing. Earlier we had Tyrion and Bronn, then Jaime and Brienne, then Arya and the Hound and now Brienne and Podrick.

I was relieved by the resolution to the Craster's Keep mess. I had a growing sense of dread that Bran would end up captured by Bolton's henchman.

-k

[Mighty AC]

Arya's death list was also kind of a trip down memory lane. I was surprised the Hound was on her list, and had to think about their history. I recall now that way back early in season 1 in the episode where Sansa's wolf was killed, he killed her friend (or at least brought his corpse back to camp). I was also surprised that he was so hard on her.

I like their scenes together, Maisie and Rory really nail the dynamic between the two characters.

The scenes at the Aerie were creepy. Sansa seems doomed to be trapped at the whim of crazy-people.

Depending on how they choose to show this line, it gets a little creepier and much better.

Once again we get a rare glimpse of Cersei's human side. Her scenes with Margaery and with Oberyn showed the softer, vulnerable side that she keeps hidden. I assume that her suddenly conciliatory tone with Margaery is because she knows that despite what she thinks of Margaery, the Lannisters need the Tyrells as an ally. Despite her grief she seems almost relieved that Joffrey's psychotic antics are at an end.

Well said. It's nice to be reminded that under the icy, ambitious, bitch of an exterior is a mother.

Hodor!

Indeed! I can't imagine how hard it would be for an actor to convey emotion using only one word. I suspect he was mentored by the Polkaroo.

I was relieved by the resolution to the Craster's Keep mess. I had a growing sense of dread that Bran would end up captured by Bolton's henchman.

This thread had a chance to dramatically deviate from the books, but now unfortunately it will return more or less to the script. I was hoping for something a little different.

[Boges]

HOLY STOCKHOLM SYNDROME THEON!!!!

You telling me Yara and her battle axe couldn't handle those dogs? I think it's a narrative stretch to expect us to believe Theon/Reek to act like Theon, of old, to infiltrate that Mote that the Ironborn occupy.

Dany needs to stop being a deadbeat and feed her own flipping dragons.

For such a cool family the paternal Tyrell is a doofus. "I WANT TO BE LORD OF SHIPS!!!"

And the Emmy goes to Peter Dinklage for cursing out King's Landing gawkers.

I hope Shae gets killed now. What an ungrateful piece of crap. She can't get it through her thick skull that Tyrion and Varys were trying to do her a favour?

Unless it comes out that Tywin forced her to lie. . . then I take it all back.

Bronn doesn't come in to bail Tyrion again does he?

Edited May 12, 2014 by Boges

[kimmy]

I wonder who will act as Tyrion's champion, and I wonder who he'll have to fight. I can't help wondering if poor Jaime will volunteer himself to fight on Tyrion's behalf.

I can't believe that Shae would willingly lie like that... even if she was bitter at Tyrion, I can't imagine why she would betray Sansa like that. She must have been coerced. Early in the first season (first episode, I think) we saw Cersei's aid spying on Tyrion and Shae and report back to Cersei with "something important". I would guess that scene is behind Shae's testimony, but I can't imagine what they would be using to coerce her.

Clearly Dany's dragons have entered their rebellious teenage years. Soon they'll be staying out late, smoking, and running with a bad crowd.

Lady Tyrell is obviously the brains in that family. Mace doesn't seem very swift.

Ser Davos' speech at the Iron Bank was pretty awesome too. I always watch the opening sequence closely to see which locations are featured on the map, and this is the first time Bravos has been shown. So apparently Stannis is back in the game.

-k

[Boges]

Braavos is pretty cool. I think Martin kinda stole the giant statue at the gate from LotR.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Argonath

I know it's not the gates to the city but the Trope is the same.

I wonder if Braavos is an allegory of China in this story. An eastern realm that's basically financing all the goings on in Westeros.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Braavos

BTW Lord of Castamere was the closing credit song AGAIN!!! That song is Pharell's Happy of Westeros.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Boges

[kimmy]

I was thinking Colossus of Rhodes.

-k

[Boges]

Had to Google that. More apt comparison I suppose.

[Argus]

I wonder who will act as Tyrion's champion, and I wonder who he'll have to fight. I can't help wondering if poor Jaime will volunteer himself to fight on Tyrion's behalf.

My guess is that as captain of the royal guards he'll be expected to fight Tyrion -- or he'll have to fight Bron.

Nice speech by Tyrion, but what he hasn't bothered to point out is that there isn't any real evidence against him at all. Sure, he had motive, but so did everyone in the hall, everyone in the country. He might also point out that as the smartest of Tywin's kids if he was going to conspire to murder the king he wouldn't do it in broad daylight in front of half the court.

[Boges]

My guess is that as captain of the royal guards he'll be expected to fight Tyrion -- or he'll have to fight Bron.

Nice speech by Tyrion, but what he hasn't bothered to point out is that there isn't any real evidence against him at all. Sure, he had motive, but so did everyone in the hall, everyone in the country. He might also point out that as the smartest of Tywin's kids if he was going to conspire to murder the king he wouldn't do it in broad daylight in front of half the court.

I think the concept of a Show Trial is lost on you.

[Argus]

I think the concept of a Show Trial is lost on you.

Oh I understand, but what is the reason for the show trial? Tyrian might not be beloved, but he was no threat nor enemy to any of those holding the trial. His crazy sister might hate him, but that's about it.

[Boges]

Oh I understand, but what is the reason for the show trial? Tyrian might not be beloved, but he was no threat nor enemy to any of those holding the trial. His crazy sister might hate him, but that's about it.

Twyin was more than ready to rid himself of him too. Someone's gotta be the fall guy right? Tyrion had the best motive of anyone (Sans Sansa )

Can't have Regicide going unsolved in the realm.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Boges

[Argus]

Twyin was more than ready to rid himself of him too. Someone's gotta be the fall guy right? Tyrion had the best motive of anyone (Sans Sansa )

Can't have Regicide going unsolved in the realm.

Tywin is a fairly shrewd guy who is probably relieved Joffrie died when he did. In fact, HE had the best motive for eliminating Joffrie, who certainly would have eventually seen to the death of anyone trying to tell him what to do, including Tywin. He tried to have Tyrion assassinated and threatened to have his mother imprisoned, remember.

I agree that wanting to find a fall guy to make it go away is certainly something he'd expect to want. But he's also got to want to know who did it, because it was a strike at the Lannisters' control of the kingdom by ... someone (or does he already know, somehow?). Whoever killed Joffrie might presumably decide to do the same with his brother. Yet Tywin is showing little to no interest in finding out who actually did it. He has to know, because he's a smart guy, that it wasn't Tyrion. But there are lots of fall guys he could implicate who aren't his son, and Tyrion has proved useful in the past. Much better to implicate some dangerous or potentially dangerous political enemy.

[Boges]

Well since it was ultimately Lady Tyrell who did it, perhaps he doesn't care. He's said without the Tyrell's the Crown is toast.

Tyrell's say they can't do business with Joffery and have a plan to take him out. Tywin says aight, if that's what it takes. We'll make my Tyrion and/or Sansa the fall guy. He could have also benefit from the idea that Jamie might leave the King's Guard (giving the family proper heirs) in order to save Tyrion's life.

This is all conjecture of course. I suspect this Trial by Combat thing is going to shake-up everyone's plans. I can't see them killing off Tyrion, He's the only thing that keeps the Lannister's tolerable.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Boges

[overthere]

Tywin is a fairly shrewd guy who is probably relieved Joffrie died when he did. In fact, HE had the best motive for eliminating Joffrie, who certainly would have eventually seen to the death of anyone trying to tell him what to do, including Tywin. He tried to have Tyrion assassinated and threatened to have his mother imprisoned, remember.

I agree that wanting to find a fall guy to make it go away is certainly something he'd expect to want. But he's also got to want to know who did it, because it was a strike at the Lannisters' control of the kingdom by ... someone (or does he already know, somehow?). Whoever killed Joffrie might presumably decide to do the same with his brother. Yet Tywin is showing little to no interest in finding out who actually did it. He has to know, because he's a smart guy, that it wasn't Tyrion. But there are lots of fall guys he could implicate who aren't his son, and Tyrion has proved useful in the past. Much better to implicate some dangerous or potentially dangerous political enemy.

It goes a little deeper...

The Trial serves Tywin in that it demonstrates to everybody who is in control, true control- somehting which needs clarification in these circumstances. Cersei is at the side, Tymion has publicly stepped aside, Jaime has little influence.

Who does that leave as a threat to the throne as represented by Tywin? Could it be the smartest and smallest guy left in the room?

Tyrion has demonstrated that he is much more than a drunken lover of whores, he saved Kings Landing and in the process saved the Lannister Empire. Tywin has no desire to be obligated, Tyrion is a future threat to Tywin. A show trial accomplishes a couple of Tywins goals.

Of course, now Tyrion has refused to play along and won't take relegation to the Wall lying down after all.

That is a gamechanger

[Mighty AC]

A game changer indeed...and what is to come is so big that I thought it might be left until the end of this season. I can't see them dragging this line for 3 or 4 more shows though.

[Melanie_]

The best line of the episode was Grand Maester Pycelle calling Joffrey the "sweetest boy the gods ever put on this good earth." The looks on everyone's faces were priceless.

[Black Dog]

My guess is that as captain of the royal guards he'll be expected to fight Tyrion -- or he'll have to fight Bron.

Pretty sure HBO spoiled the choice of champions in the trailer for this season. I'll say no more.