Jack Weber Posted March 26, 2011 Report Posted March 26, 2011 Potential thread drift ahead... Trudeau's patriation of the Constitution had one significantly absent partner. Quebec's National Assembly unanimously opposed the patriation. When Mulroney managed to correct this fundamental fault line left by Trudeau, the master himself stepped in to destroy the Meech Lake Accord. The end result was the division of the Progressive Conservative Party into the Reform Party and the Bloc Québécois. Harper has managed to patch the party back together. With time, he may be able to correct this glaring void in Canada's constitutional situation. What a shocker... Mr.Trudeau left Quebec out of the Constitution wrnglings because Mr.Levesque was trying the tried and true Secessionist trojan horse of "Distinct Society" constitutional veto power... Mr.Trudeau realized a deal with a secessionist leader of a secessionist party that dominated youe blessed Assemble Nationale was impossible because he knew what "Distinct Society" constitutional veto power meant...And so do you! All Mr. Mulroney did was the usual Conservative method of dealing with Quebec...That is namely appeasement and acquiesence to the demands of the secessionists.Mr.Trudeay rightly saved the day for this country during Meech.The rest of the country gave you folks a definative verdict on "Distinct Society" during the Charlottetown referendum.One in which I can proudly say I voted an emphatic "No!" on.Absent of Trudeau showing up for his speech on Meech,all of that was Mr.Mulroney's doing... It was his cozying up to small c secessionists that helped him win a majority in '84. It was his cozying up with secessionists that brought about the potentially disatrous Meech Lake Accord (Rightfully and correctly skewered by Pierre Elliot Trudeau!). It was Mr.Mulroney who then found his cozying up to small c secessionists unpalatable and disgusting to the vast majority of Canadians with the result of the Charlottetown Accord Referendum. All of that gave us the Bloc Quebecois,Mr.Duceppe,and,a near disatrous and ruinous secession referendum in '95. And in typical Mulroney acquiescent fashion,Mr.Harper threw you folks another incremental secession bone in calling Quebec,"A nation within a nation"... Standard Operating Procedure for Conservatives in this fashion...His "patchwork" is remeniscent of Mulroney's,albeit,from a more economic prospective.. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 You obsess about this contempt thing too much. The only reason it even came up was because Harper had a minority. When Chretien was in charge he would tell opposition leaders fishing for dirt to buzz off and there was nothing they could do about. It is pretty rediculous to claim that Harper was acting any differently from any other PM we have had in the last 50 years. Yes... It's better we have these things done clandestinely so no one sees them... So much for "Accountability" and "Standing up for Canada!".. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
August1991 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately Harper kept acting like he had a majority, but all he has ever had are minorities, and you have to be able to work with others in that kind of situation. Harper choose not to, and that is why we are having this 4th Canadian election in 7 years, several of which have been caused by Harper.Sorry Harry, but Harper's minority governments have been the longest lasting in our entire history. Despite the MSM spin, Harper is not an autocrat dictator; instead, he has been typically Canadian - he has compromised. The survival of his minority governments is one piece of evidence. His ability to get and keep 10 or so French Quebec MPs in his caucus is another. Lastly, this defeated budget of Flaherty was extremely reasonable. But please do me a favour and lose the words hatred and hate from your posts. It's getting tiresome - ok?Well, if you'll allow me to pretend to be an Oprah psychologist for a moment, what verb would you use to express your feelings for Stephen Harper?What a shocker... If you want, let's take this to another thread. Edited March 27, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Sorry Harry, but Harper's minority governments have been the longest lasting in our entire history. Despite the MSM spin, Harper is not an autocrat dictator; instead, he has been typically Canadian - he has compromised. The survival of his minority governments is one piece of evidence. His ability to get and keep 10 or so French Quebec MPs in his caucus is another. Lastly, this defeated budget of Flaherty was extremely reasonable. Well, if you'll allow me to pretend to be an Oprah psychologist for a moment, what verb would you use to express your feelings for Stephen Harper? Partisan hackery!!! Comprimise?? The only comprimising that has come has been because the opposition has backed Harper into a corner of his own making.... The dreaded crisis of December 2008 was of his own partisan making.And his "budget" 6 weeks later (post Perogie #1) was the result of him realizng this and saving his own political hide! Whatever he got between that and Perogie #2 was because of opposition weakness,not any initiative of Mr. Harper and his merry band of Harrisite and Reformers... Then there's Perogie #2 to "recalibrate"...(see: to take the heat off) This budget was extremely reasonable... How can anyone produce a budget when the committee looking into the financials of said budget does'nt have the correct financials because the government creating said budget is witholding those numbers...AND...Said government has been found in Contempt of Parliament because it has disregarded the demands of that parliament??? Furthermore...How could that government expect anyone to vote for that budget under those circumstances?? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 If you want, let's take this to another thread. That's entirely up to you,but keep in mind... On this particular file,I've found Mr.Trudeau's approach to be the correct one... You simply do not give in to secessionists at any time... That applies for 1970 and it applies now.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Harry Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) There has been Trudeau envy in Canada for a long, long time now. Sad to say the political comparisons are woefully unimpressive. And I'm not talking about Justin, whose political career is about to come to a screeching halt on May 2nd, I'm afriad. Anyway here's the latest leadership polling: Ipsos leadership poll boosts Harper and Layton, devastating for Ignatieffhttp://www.torontosun.com/blogs/thehill/2011/03/26/17763081.html Edited March 27, 2011 by Harry Quote
Oleg Bach Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Pollsters are professional promotional people...If you tell the people that EVERYONE is doing it and it is all the craze...The herd mentality kicks in and they gather together not wanting to be left out..much like atheism is gaining popularity because weae told that MOST people do not believe in anything...Polls are controlled by people who are controlled by other people...we used to have a name for the profession...I believe it was PROPOGANDIST>>>> Look at what they used to propogate and deseminate amoungst new immigrants..."if you do not vote liberal we might deport you or worse...make sure that none of your extended family is allowed entry" - That was propoganda that garnered a million votes for liberals in the past...Polls that say Harper is popular are bull shit - Harper is so non-descript that most people do not even notice the guy. Quote
Battletoads Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Then they're pretty bloody stupid. Or Harper is bloody terrible. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
punked Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) The biggest problem for the Liberals, and it is shown in this poll, is they prayed when an election was called a number of undecideds were soft Liberals not paying attention. So when the election was called they would hold their noise and vote for any with an L beside their name. It doesn't look that way. Forty-nine per cent of those who responded to an online poll say the Conservative leader is the best fit as the country's prime minister. They rank him well above the other federal party leaders in several categories, including trust and efficiency, according to the Ipsos Reid poll conducted for Postmedia News and Global National. NDP leader Jack Layton trailed with 34 per cent, while only 17 per cent of those polled said they thought Liberal leader Ignatieff would be the best prime minister. http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/canada/Canadians+trust+Harper+best+leader+poll/4511417/story.html I don't know if Jesus walking on water could make up 30 points in 5 weeks. That would be the task just to tie the Conservatives not even win. Edited March 27, 2011 by punked Quote
no1ninja Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Pollsters are professional promotional people...If you tell the people that EVERYONE is doing it and it is all the craze...The herd mentality kicks in and they gather together not wanting to be left out..much like atheism is gaining popularity because weae told that MOST people do not believe in anything...Polls are controlled by people who are controlled by other people...we used to have a name for the profession...I believe it was PROPOGANDIST>>>> Look at what they used to propogate and deseminate amoungst new immigrants..."if you do not vote liberal we might deport you or worse...make sure that none of your extended family is allowed entry" - That was propoganda that garnered a million votes for liberals in the past...Polls that say Harper is popular are bull shit - Harper is so non-descript that most people do not even notice the guy. LOL, can you link that for me... that sounds so stupid. Who said that? Some lady in some office? I really would like to read more about this claim of yours and determine how much truth there is to it. Quote
Scotty Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 That's entirely up to you,but keep in mind... On this particular file,I've found Mr.Trudeau's approach to be the correct one... You simply do not give in to secessionists at any time... That applies for 1970 and it applies now.... I may be mistaken, but I believe you are speaking TO a secessionist. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) I may be mistaken, but I believe you are speaking TO a secessionist. I don't think August is a sovereigntist. He's more what they call a soft nationalist. Edited March 27, 2011 by Smallc Quote
Evening Star Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 The biggest problem for the Liberals, and it is shown in this poll, is they prayed when an election was called a number of undecideds were soft Liberals not paying attention. So when the election was called they would hold their noise and vote for any with an L beside their name. It doesn't look that way. http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/canada/Canadians+trust+Harper+best+leader+poll/4511417/story.html I don't know if Jesus walking on water could make up 30 points in 5 weeks. That would be the task just to tie the Conservatives not even win. That's what they would need for Ignatieff to tie Harper as most trusted leader, not for the Liberals to win the election. Ed Broadbent was the most popular leader in the 80s but that didn't mean the NDP ever won a federal election. Quote
Smallc Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 That's what they would need for Ignatieff to tie Harper as most trusted leader, not for the Liberals to win the election. Ed Broadbent was the most popular leader in the 80s but that didn't mean the NDP ever won a federal election. That's fair, but at current, the Liberals are behind in every possible way. Quote
Evening Star Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Sure. I'm just saying that they don't actually need to make up 30 points in 5 weeks. Quote
Smallc Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 Sure. I'm just saying that they don't actually need to make up 30 points in 5 weeks. That's very true. I think they might go up in the next few days with what the Conservatives have done to themselves by talking about coalitions. Quote
punked Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Posted March 27, 2011 That's what they would need for Ignatieff to tie Harper as most trusted leader, not for the Liberals to win the election. Ed Broadbent was the most popular leader in the 80s but that didn't mean the NDP ever won a federal election. Yah it also meant the Liberals had a hell of a time beating the Cons. Your point is what I am saying with Broadbent getting the same numbers in the 80 as Jack is now the Liberals won 40 seats in 84 and 83 in 88 it wasn't until he left the Liberals won another election. That is my point the Liberals AT LEAST need their leader beating the NDP leader to have shot. If you think the Liberals can with with their leader at 15% then you live in dream land. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 I don't think August is a sovereigntist. He's more what they call a soft nationalist. You mean a soft pedaller of Quebec Nationalism... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
tweetah Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 The poll being referred to is not only outdated but conducted by a small sample and a large margin of error conducted by a right wing leaning poling firm-Ipsos Reid. A more comprehensive/unbiased/recent Ekos poll puts Iggy and co. down only 7 points to the neo-cons (reuters). With a focus of resources in Eastern Canada, Montreal, Quebec city, Ontario and some parts of B.C.; Iggy and co. can easily overcome that deficit pointing out the lies/priorities of Harper and form a legitimate federal minority government. Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 27, 2011 Report Posted March 27, 2011 The poll being referred to is not only outdated but conducted by a small sample and a large margin of error conducted by a right wing leaning poling firm-Ipsos Reid. A more comprehensive/unbiased/recent Ekos poll puts Iggy and co. down only 7 points to the neo-cons (reuters). With a focus of resources in Eastern Canada, Montreal, Quebec city, Ontario and some parts of B.C.; Iggy and co. can easily overcome that deficit pointing out the lies/priorities of Harper and form a legitimate federal minority government. Be careful! There are a lot of folks on this board with great memories! After the election if your predictions looked like silly partisanship you will find your words echoed back to you, likely in LARGE fonts! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
punked Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) The poll being referred to is not only outdated but conducted by a small sample and a large margin of error conducted by a right wing leaning poling firm-Ipsos Reid. A more comprehensive/unbiased/recent Ekos poll puts Iggy and co. down only 7 points to the neo-cons (reuters). With a focus of resources in Eastern Canada, Montreal, Quebec city, Ontario and some parts of B.C.; Iggy and co. can easily overcome that deficit pointing out the lies/priorities of Harper and form a legitimate federal minority government. The IR poll was conducted on 1,000 over 2 days. That is not a small sample size. I should probably ask if you have even looked at the Ekos poll? If the only way the Liberals can be behind the Cons by 7 points is to pull 33% in ALBERTA and have the NDP at 6% in the ATLANTIC. Than they got some real work to do. I think that poll is screwy. BTW if you are giving the advice that the Liberals should focus in Quebec city then you are losing your mind. They have a better chance in Alberta where they are running "virtual" offices. Edited March 27, 2011 by punked Quote
tweetah Posted March 28, 2011 Report Posted March 28, 2011 The IR poll was conducted on 1,000 over 2 days. That is not a small sample size. I should probably ask if you have even looked at the Ekos poll? If the only way the Liberals can be behind the Cons by 7 points is to pull 33% in ALBERTA and have the NDP at 6% in the ATLANTIC. Than they got some real work to do. I think that poll is screwy. BTW if you are giving the advice that the Liberals should focus in Quebec city then you are losing your mind. They have a better chance in Alberta where they are running "virtual" offices. The Ekos poll was 2500 people over 5 days and a margin of error of less than 2 per cent. As for Quebec City-Iggy said he would partially fund the new hockey arena as it is also a "community centre"-could pick up a couple of ridings on that. As for virtual offices in Alberta, there is NO use wasting finite election funds in the neo-con entrenched, US oil money loving province. Quote
punked Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) The Ekos poll was 2500 people over 5 days and a margin of error of less than 2 per cent. As for Quebec City-Iggy said he would partially fund the new hockey arena as it is also a "community centre"-could pick up a couple of ridings on that. As for virtual offices in Alberta, there is NO use wasting finite election funds in the neo-con entrenched, US oil money loving province. When Quebec city doesn't vote for the Cons they vote for the Bloc. Again if you think that an EKOS poll which has the Libs at 33% in Alberta and the NDP at 6% in the Atlantic is correct I got a bridge to sell you. Although I notice you didn't mention the Leger poll out the sameday which had a sample size of 3500 people. Why would you mention an Ekos poll that came out the sameday as a Leger one when Leger had more people? Oh it was because the numbers they got were. Cons: 39 Libs: 23 NDP: 19 Bloc: 10 Green: 6 http://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/SondagepancanLM-Le%20Devoir.pdf Again sameday as Ekos more people then Ekos yet the numbers aren't scewed for the Liberals I wonder why? Edited March 28, 2011 by punked Quote
tweetah Posted March 28, 2011 Report Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) When Quebec city doesn't vote for the Cons they vote for the Bloc. Again if you think that an EKOS poll which has the Libs at 33% in Alberta and the NDP at 6% in the Atlantic is correct I got a bridge to sell you. Although I notice you didn't mention the Leger poll out the sameday which had a sample size of 3500 people. Why would you mention an Ekos poll that came out the sameday as a Leger one when Leger had more people? Oh it was because the numbers they got were. Cons: 39 Libs: 23 NDP: 19 Bloc: 10 Green: 6 http://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/SondagepancanLM-Le%20Devoir.pdf Again sameday as Ekos more people then Ekos yet the numbers aren't scewed for the Liberals I wonder why? I don't consider Le Devoir/Leger a national poll, and most likely a leading/unclear question was proposed. I hate to say it but they (the French) are known to ask leading or unclear questions with the two separation referendums as evidence. Edited March 28, 2011 by tweetah Quote
punked Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Posted March 28, 2011 I don't consider Le Devoir/Leger a national poll, and most likely a leading/unclear question was proposed. I hate to say it but they (the French) are known to ask leading or unclear questions with the two separation referendums as evidence. All the poll questions are on the break down, so maybe you can tell me what you don't like about the methodology? Again you are picking polls you like and ignoring those you don't like. I am telling you right now the Ekos poll isn't a good one for the Liberals because they AREN'T getting 33% in Alberta and the NDP AREN'T getting 6% in the Atlantic. Quote
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