bud Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 uh oh. rue has gotten into another flustered rant. I wish I could rub the blood of the dead in your nostrils just once and ask you, is that what you cheer? you cheered the attack on gaza which killed over 1000 civilians and over 300 children. want to rub some of that blood in your own nostrils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 The fact is terrorism by anyone is dispicable. The fact is people like you who cheer lead and make excuses for terrorism are always and I mean always, soft, fat, sheltered, privileged North Americans far from the conflict and have never seen the aftermath of a terrorist attack. I wish I could rub the blood of the dead in your nostrils just once and ask you, is that what you cheer? All terrorists no matter what their cause are equally as dispicable and trying to debate this issue by smeering Jews and Israelis will not change that basic and rudamentary equation. It doesn't matter who engages in the violence, its something we should deplore. So the terrorism perpetrated by the various resistance forces in occupied countries in WW2 was dispicable? The terrorism perpetrated by the mujahadin against the Soviet/Afghan government was dispicable? I guess the repugnance for terror depends on what side you are on. While there can be no doubt that palestinian terror has been counterproductive and responsible for the deaths of many more palestinians than israelis, as an occupied people they have every right to resist using whatever methods they have at their disposal. Lacking an army, they are left with insurgent tactics only, and the best of those tactics as history has proven time and again is terror. As a strategy I think the palestinians use of terror is stupid and does nothing to advance their cause. But that doesn't mean they don't have the right to be stupid as they have proven numerous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Mercy. Someone who understands the actual story. You made my day dawg. I will shadd up now. I was also chirping a bit in the other thread about the friggin terror attack. I just some days can't stand the name calling. I hate to see the conflict lead to the deaths of Israelis and Palestinians. As a Zionist I do not want civilians on either side killing and spitting at each other let alone people on this forum egging this on like pit bull fight spectators. Man my blood boils. I know people in the IDF on the West Bank. If anyone thinks they want to be caught in the conflict they are mistaken. One day they have to deal with angry extremist settlements. The next potential Palestinian extremists. The spit comes from both sides and they are stuck in the middle. They are soldiers. They weren't designed to baby sit. After awhile they get very bitter at what they have to do. They get a sort of burn out is best I can call it similiar to cops or social workers or teachers or people who work in emergency wards. Just never seems to end some days Dawg. Always the same sheeyit. The irony is though for me the same people who came on this board whining about Israel intercepting a Turkish ship are absolutely silent on the fact Turkey intercepted arms on their way to Syria. You have to love it. I posted a vid you might enjoy... http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=16324&view=findpost&p=640268 The Altalena was an old American LST (Landing Ship Tank...# 138, in fact.) that saw service during the various Mediterranean camaigns during WW2...Sicily...Italy, etc. They were made in great numbers. Irgun supporters bought it cheap post war as Navy surplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I posted a vid you might enjoy... http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=16324&view=findpost&p=640268 The Altalena was an old American LST (Landing Ship Tank...# 138, in fact.) that saw service during the various Mediterranean camaigns during WW2...Sicily...Italy, etc. They were made in great numbers. Irgun supporters bought it cheap post war as Navy surplus. Cool....ex LST-138 was shelled and burned, then blown up! http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/16/160138.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Cool....ex LST-138 was shelled and burned, then blown up! http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/16/160138.htm Agreement. Dramatic photos. Haganah had a hard time finding hombres who would fire on fellow Jews...errr...Zionists. But they did... http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18298&view=findpost&p=640266 Edited March 18, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 you mean the israeli government gives no incentives for these settlers to live in the occupied territories? I mean exactly what I mean. What you mean is irrelevant. They are not pressed, dragooned, ordered, compelled or evacuated by the Israeli government. They are there of their own free will. Likewise, the thousands of Canadians who live in the USA were not transferred there by the CND government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Likewise, the thousands of Canadians who live in the USA were not transferred there by the CND government. What the heck? The travisty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) .............. Edited March 21, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well...you brought the beating on yourself, I'd say. Do I go around saying you'd want folks to be 'rounded-up and executed' while you 'gleefully cheer'? Actually, when I informed you (since you were ignorant of the fact) that several Western nations, led by the United States, intentionally, materially aided in massive state terrorism leading to deaths of hundreds of thousands of East Timorese...you laughed quite uproariously. So, of course you'd cheer...or at least get a good belly-laugh out of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Cool....ex LST-138 was shelled and burned, then blown up! http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/16/160138.htm Here's some good footage of LSTs at work in Viet-Nam...looks to be 1967-68, there 'bouts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I mean exactly what I mean. What you mean is irrelevant. They are not pressed, dragooned, ordered, compelled or evacuated by the Israeli government. They are there of their own free will. Likewise, the thousands of Canadians who live in the USA were not transferred there by the CND government. Likewise, the thousands of Canadians who live in the USA were not transferred there by the CND government. The difference being that Americans get to set their own immigration policy, and many Canadians applicants are denied. Comparing that to Israel allowing and encouraging, and sanctioning the transfer of its own citizens into an occupied territory is too stupid to even fathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Here's some good footage of LSTs at work in Viet-Nam...looks to be 1967-68, there 'bouts.. Nice.....LST-603 was transferred to South Vietnam in 1969. Love that monkey too! http://www.mrfa.org/lst603.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Nice.....LST-603 was transferred to South Vietnam in 1969. Love that monkey too! http://www.mrfa.org/lst603.htm LST-980 went in 1966 and LST-1141 in 1969...so agreement...some footage is from 1969. The first shot of 980 is probably earlier than that due to the use of the jungle slouch hat by some troops which was more common during the earlier days. I don't think that is an ARVN soldier at the .50 cal, either. Possibly Thai, who had troops in Viet-Nam as part of SEATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 So the terrorism perpetrated by the various resistance forces in occupied countries in WW2 was dispicable? The terrorism perpetrated by the mujahadin against the Soviet/Afghan government was dispicable? I guess the repugnance for terror depends on what side you are on. God, yes! I've had discussions with people on this very forum who--albeit not till they're backed into a corner--will express clear support for terrorism. So long as it's "the good guys" committing or supporting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF/PF Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I disputed you claim that rulings against the settlements cited ethic cleansing. You fail. If a judge found someone guilty of illegally violating the section of the criminal code prohibiting first degree murder, but never said the word "murder" in his judgement, would you argue that his judgement did not in fact find that person guilty of "murder?" I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF/PF Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 In fact, the state of Israel does not transfer settlers....the go as private citizens on their own free will. Irrelevant. A state has the responsibility to ensure, through force if neccessary, that its citizens adhere to international law. To suggest otherwise would lead to ridiculous situations, such as a nation claiming innocence through inaction while its civilians exterminated an ethnic minority. "It wasn't us.. the people did it on their own!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 If a judge found someone guilty of illegally violating the section of the criminal code prohibiting first degree murder, but never said the word "murder" in his judgement, would you argue that his judgement did not in fact find that person guilty of "murder?" I think not. If a judge found someone guilty of theft, violating the section of the criminal code prohibiting first theft, I doubt that the judge would cite murder, even thought murder is in the criminal code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Irrelevant. A state has the responsibility to ensure, through force if neccessary, that its citizens adhere to international law. To suggest otherwise would lead to ridiculous situations, such as a nation claiming innocence through inaction while its civilians exterminated an ethnic minority. "It wasn't us.. the people did it on their own!" There are no international laws prohibiting immigration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Irrelevant. A state has the responsibility to ensure, through force if neccessary, that its citizens adhere to international law. To suggest otherwise would lead to ridiculous situations, such as a nation claiming innocence through inaction while its civilians exterminated an ethnic minority. "It wasn't us.. the people did it on their own!" Love to see any example of a state that has used force on any of its citizens to adhere to international law. States have used force against it citizens to uphold their own laws countless times, but international law? don't think so. And the nation that turned a blind eye to extermination of a ethnic group in their own nation, is a lawless nation. Unless you can show me a nation where wholesale murder or genocide is legal. International law is basically a set of moral platitudes, with selective enforcebility and prosecution. Nations with real power are never prosecuted and victors are never prosecuted. Seems the international courts only choose the weak, politically vulnerable and/or the defeated to prosecute. Laws that only apply to some and not to all aren't laws, they are tools of power, punishment and retribution designed to demonstrate the moral superiority of hypocrites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) uh oh. rue has gotten into another flustered rant. you cheered the attack on gaza which killed over 1000 civilians and over 300 children. want to rub some of that blood in your own nostrils? Produce the words where I cheered the attack on Gaza. Produce them or issue an apology. Bud coming on this forum to make false allegations as to what people have said is pointless. It simply exposes you as lacking in any credibility. You are well aware I have never once come on this forum and condoned or applauded or supported or made any reference cheering the death of anyone let alone civilians or children. That was highly irresponsible. Its time you take responsibility for your actions on this board. Either produce the statement(s) you claimed I meant or your silence will prove you have zero credibility. You are not the first person to come on this board and make false accusations about what people have said. In the past such people have been banned. In my case I don't want you banned. I want your false allegation to remain so that people can see your methods for debate and the tactics you use. Their lack of basis speak for themselves. As well Bud if you want to suggest I cheer death and the killing of innocent civilians don't make false references to statements I never said, just come out and make the accusation. The false reference doesn't make your false allegation any more credible. Edited March 23, 2011 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) There are a number of international court rulings on the illegality of Israeli settlements. Naturally these findings are disputed by Israel. There are NO international court rulings regarding Israel ethnically cleansing the territories. This is not surprising since if Israel was engaged in ethnic cleansing they would set a new benchmark for utter failure. Seems the arab population in the WB has steadily and consistently risen every single year since 1967. IMHO, the international court has absolutely no enforcement capabilities for its rulings and any law where there are NO CONSEQUENCES for breaking said law is nothing more than moral platitude. Sorry I was busy cheering the death of Gaza civilians. I have stopped. I just wanted to take the time to state the above comment was well stated and directly on point. Imagine. Someone can do that in these type of debates. Good on you. As you obviously have noted in the debate on the conflict people will present their subjective political views as if they are legal doctrine and where the legal doctrine does not promote any political view use their moral and subjective judgements to say it does or should. Trying to discern the actual legal doctrine and its application from peoples' personal subjective political views as to what the law should do or actually does can be quite difficult. I commend your efforts and apolitical, neutral restatement of the actual laws and their applicability. Edited March 23, 2011 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 A state has the responsibility to ensure, through force if neccessary, that its citizens adhere to international law. rolleyes: Say now that means the Lebanese government should use force to disarm Hezbollah. Ooopsy. You want to back track or say something funny like Hezbollah is not violating any international laws... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Sorry I was busy cheering the death of Gaza civilians. I have stopped. I just wanted to take the time to state the above comment was well stated and directly on point. Imagine. Someone can do that in these type of debates. Good on you. As you obviously have noted in the debate on the conflict people will present their subjective political views as if they are legal doctrine and where the legal doctrine does not promote any political view use their moral and subjective judgements to say it does or should. Trying to discern the actual legal doctrine and its application from peoples' personal subjective political views as to what the law should do or actually does can be quite difficult. I commend your efforts and apolitical, neutral restatement of the actual laws and their applicability. Jonsa seems to make a genuine attempt to be reasonable, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) In fact, the state of Israel does not transfer settlers....the go as private citizens on their own free will. It would be nice if the Palestinians had the same right... seems when they do things as private citizens they get their homes bulldozed. Edited March 23, 2011 by no1ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I mean exactly what I mean. What you mean is irrelevant. They are not pressed, dragooned, ordered, compelled or evacuated by the Israeli government. They are there of their own free will. Likewise, the thousands of Canadians who live in the USA were not transferred there by the CND government. thousands of canadians who live in the USA were not given money, tax breaks and cheap housing to move to the states. the canadian government also did not create buffer zones in canadian only settlements and the canadian government did not create canadian only highways in USA that are restricted for only canadians. how many more times are you going to fail before you admit the truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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