bud Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Produce the words where I cheered the attack on Gaza. Produce them or issue an apology. Bud coming on this forum to make false allegations as to what people have said is pointless. It simply exposes you as lacking in any credibility. due to the lack of time, i will not go and dig up what i think you have said. if you have not tried to justify israel's one-sided attack on gaza which killed hundreds of civilians and injured thousands more, then i sincerely apologize. please confirm that you are/were against the attack on gaza by israel so i will not make this mistake again. not that it justifies making false accusations, but i have also challenged you to support your accusations you've made to me before a few times and you have not. take that into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 please confirm that you are/were against the attack on gaza by israel so i will not make this mistake again. Aren't you the self righteous aunt. I mean...one can be for self defence and not take joy in killing, but having a one dimensional mind prevents you from understanding this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Aren't you the self righteous aunt. I mean...one can be for self defence and not take joy in killing, but having a one dimensional mind prevents you from understanding this. why not try to respond to the comments made towards the misinformation you're trying to spread before responding to comments directed to others? you do a lot of these drive-by misinformation and when you're called on it, you hide like a little rodent and decide not to respond to them. you claim that the israeli government has not established the settlements but reality and facts disagree with you. the international court of justice agrees that israel is behind the settlements and that they are illegal: Recalling that the Security Council described Israel's policy of establishing settlements in that territory as a “flagrant violation” of the Fourth Geneva Convention, the Court finds that those settlements have been established in breach of international law. ICJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 you claim that the israeli government has not established the settlements but reality and facts disagree with you. I claim you have the honesty of a hamas operative. Be quick, cite my claim.... Now please confirm that you agree that Israel has the right to self defence which includes invading Gaza or any other nation if the need warrants, and I will forgive your blatant dishonesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 thousands of canadians who live in the USA were not given money, tax breaks and cheap housing to move to the states. the canadian government also did not create buffer zones in canadian only settlements and the canadian government did not create canadian only highways in USA that are restricted for only canadians. how many more times are you going to fail before you admit the truth? And? So? were they ordered to live there? Yes or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I claim you have the honesty of a hamas operative. Be quick, cite my claim.... Now please confirm that you agree that Israel has the right to self defence which includes invading Gaza or any other nation if the need warrants, and I will forgive your blatant dishonesty. I'm wondering when Bud/Naomi Glover (Nice photo of Naomi Klein,by the way)/Dub is going to get his/her Muslim Brotherhood card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 It would be nice if the Palestinians had the same right... seems when they do things as private citizens they get their homes bulldozed. You mean like ...support and aid terrorism? Shocking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 thousands of canadians who live in the USA were not given money, tax breaks and cheap housing to move to the states. the canadian government also did not create buffer zones in canadian only settlements and the canadian government did not create canadian only highways in USA that are restricted for only canadians. how many more times are you going to fail before you admit the truth? That is a nonsensical analogy. One cannot compare US/Canada and Israel/Occupied Territories. I am always struck by the fact that anti-zionists and pro-palestinians (there is a difference) always scream about the illegality and immorality of the occupation, but never stop to consider why the occupation became the status quo. The fact is in 67 after the Russians told the US and Israel to stop or they'd get involved (seems they didn't like the fact that Israel was 50 miles from capital of one of its very important african clients), a cease fire was established. Israel says okay what now? The Arab League in the Khartoum declaration some 60 days after the cease fire re-iterates its infamous 3 Noes policy towards Israel - No peace, No recognition, No negotiation. Basically and succinctly the arabs tell Israel to "fuck off" to which Israel tells the loser arabs, "No, you fuck off". Three months after that in indirect negotiations thru the UN, UNSCR242 is issued, a document whose intention was good but so fraught with ambiguity and platitude as to be useless. Ya see, to achieve the goal of 242 required NEGOTIATION, but the arab league again re-iterated the 3 noes so, go figure - occupation begins entrenchment. At this point, what unilateral action should Israel have taken wrt the territories? As we move through this sordid history it takes 12 years and another war before the first arab nation pulls their collective head out of their asses and figures out that negotiation and peace will get them their land back. Sadat in a move to appease the arab league (although he still gets killed) says - "nah you can keep gaza we don't want it back, it should be part of the palestinian nation - when and if it ever gets established." What unilateral action should Israel have taken with gaza at that point? meanwhile, somebody figures out that creating facts on the ground - i.e. settlements in the territories, will provide even more leverage in negotiations with the palestinians and their arab brothers and would result in some choice pieces of property accruing to Israel, or at the very least provide a "sacrifice" because sure as hell Israel ain't giving up Jerusalem. Voila an organized government backed settlement strategy takes wing. It takes another 12 or 14 years before the palestinians and their arab brothers actually figure out that even tho he got killed for his efforts, Sadat may have been right. Oslo is born. Now, the palestinians actually have an opportunity to establish their own nation. to throw off the humiliating shackles of occupation, to become masters of their own destiny. Is it a perfect deal? NO does it give in to all of the palestinians demands? NO. Is it something to build on? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY. What does that scumbag crook Arafat do? COMPLETELY BLOWS IT TRYING TO COVER HIS OWN ASS. Far from being the great leader of the palestinian people, he brings them to brink of success and then competely screws them in a bid to maintain power. Israel doesn't have many options. Not that they are perfect partners or anything. They make it very difficult for the palestinians, continue to increase settlements, maintain humiliating travel restrictions, restrict access, control borders, collect their taxes, bully the population and generally lord it over the occupied. They are also totally intolerant of terror attacks, and believe in both collective punishment and disproportionate response. so while you howl at the sky about Israel and the illegal zionazi occupation and illegal settlements and ethnic cleansing and jeningrad and gazan genocide you might want to consider that Israel didn't get to this position unilaterally. For decades, they were left with little or no choice and being rather pragmatic, decided to make the most of it. Yet another cost of failed arab and palestinian strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) You mean like ...support and aid terrorism? Shocking! I honestly don't know. Who determines this terrorism? Is there like a terrorism court? Is it held in Israel? Some of these homes that have been destroyed have been political figures and in some cases doctors. I also question how right that would be if for instance say your son decided to act out in a terrorist manner, and the Canadian authorities bulldozed your house. I mean wouldn't we want some sort of a trail? If you can come to the house with heavy construction vehicle, surely you can apprehend the man and have a court where these matters are heard and judged fairly. Why put the rest of the family on the street? Seems kind of barbaric and punitive to me. Not what an advanced legal nation that respected its citizens within its perceived borders would do. What happens to Israelis that break the law, or are mass murders like Bernardo, does Israel bulldoze their family dwellings? Or is this strictly a west bank policy? Edited March 23, 2011 by no1ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Why put the rest of the family on the street, seems kind of barbaric and punitive to me. Not what an advanced legal nation that respected its citizens within its perceived borders would do. Because the son does nothing without the permission of the father. ...and it is not in its borders,,,it is in the military occupied zone where the laws and punishments are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 And? So? were they ordered to live there? Yes or no? don't play stupid. the israeli government paves the road to move israelis into the occupied territories by giving free or cheap housing plus all moving expenses. if israel did not build the houses, the highways and did not give ton of other incentives, majority, if not all the jewish settlers would not be in the occupied territories. your comparison with canadians moving to the states is stupid because the situations are nowhere the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 don't play stupid. I won't and I won't infringe on your territory lest you bus bomb me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Because the son does nothing without the permission of the father. ...and it is not in its borders,,,it is in the military occupied zone where the laws and punishments are different. Really? I did not know that. Is that like some sort of a Palestinian trait where by the sons are super loyal to their dads. These people sound mythical. Maybe we should genetically study them to isolate for this difference. So in a military occupied zone, different living conditions apply. Those that have control, militaristiclly speaking can just wipe out your possessions at their whim, without legal process... or due access to a trial, but its not like apartheid... I get it. Edited March 23, 2011 by no1ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Really? I did not know that. Is that like some sort of a Palestinian trait where by the sons are super loyal to their dads. These people sound mythical. It is an arab trait...right beside honour killing is obedience to the patriarch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 So in a military occupied zone, different living conditions apply. Those that have control, militaristiclly speaking can just wipe out your possessions at their whim, without legal process... or due access to a trial, but its not like apartheid... I get it. No you don't. There is a legal process. A military legal process, but a process none the less. It is harsh....but so is terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 don't play stupid. the israeli government paves the road to move israelis into the occupied territories by giving free or cheap housing plus all moving expenses. if israel did not build the houses, the highways and did not give ton of other incentives, majority, if not all the jewish settlers would not be in the occupied territories. your comparison with canadians moving to the states is stupid because the situations are nowhere the same. Sooo....then you admit that the goverment does not force anyone to go....if no one wanted to go...would anyone be there? Are you aware of the transfers of populations after the second world war? Appraentlty they were legal....and mandatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) That is a nonsensical analogy. One cannot compare US/Canada and Israel/Occupied Territories. i agree that you cannot compare them. dancer, on the other hand, wants to equate them. I am always struck by the fact that anti-zionists and pro-palestinians i am not pro-palestinian. i am pro justice. there have been on many occasions where i've been against what palestinians have done. just because i criticize israel, it doesn't make me pro-palestinian. your story of events was cute, but it missed a lot of points which, if mentioned, would ruin your narrative and your pro-israeli story telling. there would be too much to write as a response, since trying to simplify 40+ years of events cannot happen. what dancer is trying to do here is to misinform people about the israeli settlements. everyone knows that without the israeli government, the settlements would not be happening. dancer wants us to believe that the settlers are moving to the occupied territories like a canadian would choose to move to the united states. as you said, it's a nonsensical analogy. Edited March 23, 2011 by bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) It is an arab trait...right beside honour killing is obedience to the patriarch. I think you are taking an extremist view. I know lots of arabs, that have lied to their dads, I think the human condition is the same for us all. I think all cultures teach a healthy respect for ones parents. Especially in families that spend lots of time together. I usually tell people that no matter what country you go to, you will have a certain segment that are artists, thieves, philanthropists, drug addicts, professors, etc... nothing is so clear cut. Somewhere out there there is an Arab kid programming a computer, another smoking pot and another writing a play. There really is no reason for this hate. The sooner you realize that it takes two to have a conflict the sooner you will come to a solution. Edited March 23, 2011 by no1ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Meanwhile...in Jerusalem...KABOOM! http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/03/23/gaza-palestinians-israel.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 So what now? What would you do to show how wrong this sort of hate is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 So what now? What would you do to show how wrong this sort of hate is? Dunno...what are you gonna do, friendo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Dunno...what are you gonna do, friendo? It'd be really bad if we found out that this bombing was a result of some of the Palestinian's who were "released" from Egyptian prisons last month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) It'd be really bad if we found out that this bombing was a result of some of the Palestinian's who were "released" from Egyptian prisons last month... Yes...that would be a bit of a pickle. Kosher, I hope. Edited March 23, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Meanwhile...in Syria...the bodies pile-up. Edited March 23, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 i agree that you cannot compare them. dancer, on the other hand, wants to equate them. i am not pro-palestinian. i am pro justice. there have been on many occasions where i've been against what palestinians have done. just because i criticize israel, it doesn't make me pro-palestinian. your story of events was cute, but it missed a lot of points which, if mentioned, would ruin your narrative and your pro-israeli story telling. there would be too much to write as a response, since trying to simplify 40+ years of events cannot happen. what dancer here is trying to do here is to misinform people about the israeli settlements. everyone knows that without the israeli government, the settlements would not be happening. dancer wants us to believe that the settlers are moving to the occupied territories like a canadian would choose to move to the united states. as you said, it's a nonsensical analogy. My story of events isn't cute, its pretty accurate. And of course a lot of points were missed. However, the crux of the story is essentially factually accurate, minus my opinion of arafat and his motives. Trying to simplify 40 years of occupation is precisely what all sides constantly attempt to do. It seems that contemporary support or opposition is couched in "legal vs illegal" and quotes GCIV and UNSCR 242 ad nauseum. But political action is what is important - international law in this regard is frankly irrelevant as it is unenforceable and offers absolutely no consquence to breaking it. It can give one a sense of moral superiority, but doesn't change the "facts on the ground" on iota. The fact of the matter is pretty straightforward. Had the arabs chosen to engage Israel after getting their asses handed to them in 67 for the third time, we would not be discussing the occupation today. Yes, there have been all kinds of financial incentives for people to move into settlements. Anyone who denies that is denying fact. OTOH, there would still be Israeli settlements without government inducements. the first settlements were by ultra=zionists. Orthodox zionists desire to settle near the cave of the patriarchs, rachel's tomb, etc. Granted there wouldn't be 400,000 settlers but there'd still be a whole bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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