Israel's Intercepts Ship Carrying Arms

[Jonsa]

Are you aware that international rulings on the illegality of Israeli settlements cite conventions aimed at preventing ethnic cleansing?

Based on those rulings, it is a demonstrated fact that Israel has been engaged in ethnic cleansing, as defined by the international community, for quite some time.

Are Palestinians "too white to qualify" as well?

I am not aware of these international rulings. do you have any references?

[dre]

Oh no he didn't!

Nothing wrong with me replying. Youre trying to act like a tough guy, with the age old and universally laughed at "if you said that in person Id beat you up" routine.

And Im laughing at you

[DogOnPorch]

Nothing wrong with me replying. Youre trying to act like a tough guy, with the age old and universally laughed at "if you said that in person Id beat you up" routine.

And Im laughing at you

Well...you brought the beating on yourself, I'd say. Do I go around saying you'd want folks to be 'rounded-up and executed' while you 'gleefully cheer'?

[bud]

I am not aware of these international rulings. do you have any references?

if i may, here is the reference.

dancer has a bad memory. both naomi and myself and probably others have reminded him of the illegality of the wall and the settlements both in the west bank and in east jerusalem. but he keeps forgetting.

[bud]

Well...you brought the beating on yourself, I'd say. Do I go around saying you'd want folks to be 'rounded-up and executed' while you 'gleefully cheer'?

you are embarrassing yourself again.

[DogOnPorch]

you are embarrassing yourself again.

By replying to you...certainly.

[Black Dog]

When have they ever said that they would leave Israel alone if they did leave the occupied territories? Hint, they haven't.

Who are "they"?

Also there needs to be a variant of Godwin's Law that pertains to the Grand Mufti of Jersusalem, whatever that mouldering corpse's connection to the current conflict is.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Black Dog

[M.Dancer]

The establishment of German settlements would have had no bearing on whether or not france had a right to resist the occupation. The settlements are PART OF the occupation.

You think it would be any different if the situation was reversed? Please.

That wasn't the point...the point was ethnic cleansing, the poster I replied to suggested that the argument of ethnic cleansing of Jews from the west bank had the same relevance as suggesting the french resistance were ethnically cleansing france...

[M.Dancer]

Do you deny that the German invasion of France was for the purpose of expanding the nation of Germany?

Yes I do. The Germans had no aspirations (setting aside the yo yo region of Alsace Lorraine) in France. The invasion of France had everything to do with France declaring war on Germany over Germany invasion of Poland.

[M.Dancer]

Link

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention

Show where international rulings on the illegality of Israeli settlements cited conventions aimed at preventing ethnic cleansing.

Not two different citations

[Jonsa]

Show where international rulings on the illegality of Israeli settlements cited conventions aimed at preventing ethnic cleansing.

Not two different citations

There are a number of international court rulings on the illegality of Israeli settlements. Naturally these findings are disputed by Israel.

There are NO international court rulings regarding Israel ethnically cleansing the territories.

This is not surprising since if Israel was engaged in ethnic cleansing they would set a new benchmark for utter failure. Seems the arab population in the WB has steadily and consistently risen every single year since 1967.

IMHO, the international court has absolutely no enforcement capabilities for its rulings and any law where there are NO CONSEQUENCES for breaking said law is nothing more than moral platitude.

[M.Dancer]

There are NO international court rulings regarding Israel ethnically cleansing the territories.

I know, which is why I asked for the citation about the legality of the settlements and their citation of ethnic cleansing.

Because I knew it did not exist.

[dre]

Show where international rulings on the illegality of Israeli settlements cited conventions aimed at preventing ethnic cleansing.

Not two different citations

[SF/PF]

Show where international rulings on the illegality of Israeli settlements cited conventions aimed at preventing ethnic cleansing.

Not two different citations

I cited the ruling that states Israeli occupations violate the fourth geneva convention, and then I cited the most relevant article of the fourth convention. Do you dispute that the intent of that article was to help prevent ethnic cleansing in the future?

In fact, one of the legal arguments used to attempt to establish the legality of the settlements explicitly acknowledges the purpose of that particular article:

Julius Stone referred to the absurdity of the claim that establishing settlements violate Article 49(6): "We would have to say that the effect of Article 49(6) is to impose an obligation on the State of Israel to ensure (by force if necessary) that these areas, despite their millennial association with Jewish life, shall be forever judenrein. Irony would thus be pushed to the absurdity of claiming that Article 49(6), designed to prevent repetition of Nazi-type genocidal policies of rendering Nazi metropolitan territories judenrein, has now come to mean that . . . the West Bank . . . must be made judenrein and must be so maintained, if necessary by the use of force by the government of Israel against its own inhabitants. Common sense as well as correct historical and functional context exclude so tyrannical a reading of Article 49(6)."]

Of course, no reasonable person has suggested that the occupied territories must be judenrein, only that the state of Israel can not legally transfer in new settlers to the occupied terrirory. An important difference.

Edited March 17, 2011 by SF/PF

[DogOnPorch]

Of course, no reasonable person has suggested that the occupied territories must be judenrein, only that the state of Israel can not legally transfer in newsettlers to the occupied terrirory. An important difference.

What reasonable people? Abbas or Meshaal?

[dre]

What reasonable people? Abbas or Meshaal?

Everyone on earth. Not one single country on earth recognizes the west bank as Israeli territory, or recognizes their right to settle it. Not even their closest allies. Even Israel itself does not consider most of the west bank as Israeli, although they do describe the part of Jerusalem that they conquered as being part of Israel, and they do describe a small handfull of other settlements as "permanent".

[DogOnPorch]

Everyone on earth. Not one single country on earth recognizes the west bank as Israeli territory, or recognizes their right to settle it. Not even their closest allies. Even Israel itself does not consider most of the west bank as Israeli, although they do describe the part of Jerusalem that they conquered as being part of Israel, and they do describe a small handfull of other settlements as "permanent".

I'm not talking about Israel. I'm talking about Jews living in the West Bank. Why is this a problem? If the WB becomes a state, they can become citizens.

[M.Dancer]

I cited the ruling that states Israeli occupations violate the fourth geneva convention, and then I cited the most relevant article of the fourth convention. Do you dispute that the intent of that article was to help prevent ethnic cleansing in the future?

I disputed you claim that rulings against the settlements cited ethic cleansing.

You fail.

[M.Dancer]

Of course, no reasonable person has suggested that the occupied territories must be judenrein, only that the state of Israel can not legally transfer in new settlers to the occupied terrirory. An important difference.

In fact, the state of Israel does not transfer settlers....the go as private citizens on their own free will.

[Rue]

Isn't it funny how things are when the shoe is on the other foot? Back in 1948, if a ship carrying arms to Jewish "terrorists" was intercepted, the Jewish world shouted with indignation. Noww that it is Israel intercepting arms shipments, Israel cannot understand the outcry.

What utter bull. You made the above up. Or do you want to play some more and invent for me the incident you refer to?

while you are at it look up the percentage of Zionist fighters that were actually engaged in terrorist activities and compare them per ratio to the remainder of the Zionists who fought prior to the state of Israel being created then get back to me as to their size and then tell me how this equates to the size of Hamas and terror cells now operating in the Middle east per ration to Palestinian population.

You want to play such games of comparison then finish it. Don't start what you can't finish.

Also find out how many actually were members of the Irgun and Stern Gang before you shoot off at the mouth again and accuse all people who fought for Israel as being terrorists and making a smeer against all Jews.

More to the point how would what the Stern Gang did or what the Irgun did make what Hamas does right? What kind of brilliant logic is that?

But hey you want to use the arguement that two wrongs make a right go ahead. What really ticks me though is your attempt to try rationalize what Hamas does by suggesting JEWS let alone Israelis are no better. Your need to smeer the entire Jewish community and misrepresent it as having supported terrorism is absolute b.s.

Those Jews in the Zionist community that supported a state of Israel did not support terrorism. The Stern Gang and Irgun never numbered even .5% of the Jewish population.

For you to suggest Zionism supported terrorism and Jews sat around cheering terrorist attacks is odious. Why don't you try at least to find out just who the Jews were fleeing to Israel and why they were fleeing the holocaust before you smeer them as terrorists.

Oh but wait, next will be your accusation that Zionists are committing a holocaust against Palestinians. Yah I know the rhetoric. Stale. Old. Regurgitated.

The fact is terrorism by anyone is dispicable. The fact is people like you who cheer lead and make excuses for terrorism are always and I mean always, soft, fat, sheltered, privileged North Americans far from the conflict and have never seen the aftermath of a terrorist attack.

I wish I could rub the blood of the dead in your nostrils just once and ask you, is that what you cheer?

All terrorists no matter what their cause are equally as dispicable and trying to debate this issue by smeering Jews and Israelis will not change that basic and rudamentary equation. It doesn't matter who engages in the violence, its something we should deplore.

You even know what a Palestinian is? You ever seen one blow up? You think they blow up any different then an Israeli? You ever seen what happens to both when terrorists shoot missiles and blow people up? You think a terrorist sits worrying about killing innocent Palestinians any more then they do Israelis?

Right. Let me know when you pack your bags and head for Gaza. Can't wait.

Another arm chair warrior spewing their two cents from some sofa in mama's basement. Bah.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

What utter bull. You made the above up. Or do you care to share the specific incident you refer to.

while you are at it look up the percentage of Zionist fighters that were actually engaged in terrorist activities and compare then per ratio to the remainder of the Zionists who fought prior to the state of Israel being created then get back to me. Also find out how many actually were members of the Irgun and Stern Gang before you shoot off at the mouth again and accuse all people who fought for Israel as being terrorists and making a smeer against all Jews.

Your attempt to try rationalize what Hamas does by suggesting JEWS let alone Israelis are no better speaks for itself as well. Such brilliant logic. Oh but wait you are going to go to Gaza and fight. You are packing your bags as we speak.

I cried BULL on this one, too, Rue.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18298&view=findpost&p=640266

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altalena_Affair

[Rue]

I cried BULL on this one, too, Rue.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18298&view=findpost&p=640266

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altalena_Affair

Thank you Dawg.. Don't mind me. I didn't have enough Bran this morning Doggie.

p.s. Dawg I know I am a righteous sob some days. Lol. (glad you don't take

me personally) (growl)

Edited March 18, 2011 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

Thank you Dawg.. Don't mind me. I didn't have enough Bran this morning Doggie.

p.s. Dawg I know I am a righteous sob some days. Lol. (glad you don't take

me personally) (growl)

Yes...the "I Hate Jews Zionists" crowd doesn't like to explain why Mr Begin's boat was put to the torch by Haganah. Much easier to make stuff up.

[Rue]

Yes...the "I Hate Jews Zionists" crowd doesn't like to explain why Mr Begin's boat was put to the torch by Haganah. Much easier to make stuff up.

Mercy. Someone who understands the actual story. You made my day dawg. I will shadd up now. I was also chirping a bit in the other thread about the friggin terror attack. I just some days can't stand the name calling. I hate to see

the conflict lead to the deaths of Israelis and Palestinians. As a Zionist I do not want civilians on either side

killing and spitting at each other let alone people on this forum egging this on like pit bull fight spectators.

Man my blood boils. I know people in the IDF on the West Bank. If anyone thinks they want to be caught in the

conflict they are mistaken. One day they have to deal with angry extremist settlements. The next potential

Palestinian extremists. The spit comes from both sides and they are stuck in the middle. They are soldiers.

They weren't designed to baby sit. After awhile they get very bitter at what they have to do. They get a sort of

burn out is best I can call it similiar to cops or social workers or teachers or people who work in emergency wards.

Just never seems to end some days Dawg. Always the same sheeyit.

The irony is though for me the same people who came on this board whining about Israel intercepting a Turkish

ship are absolutely silent on the fact Turkey intercepted arms on their way to Syria.

You have to love it.

[bud]

In fact, the state of Israel does not transfer settlers....the go as private citizens on their own free will.

you mean the israeli government gives no incentives for these settlers to live in the occupied territories?