Jack Weber Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 There is. They only pay a small percentage of their salary for them. They're being asked to pay a bit more. Half of what everyone else pays. Plus give up collective bargaining right...plus have mandatory yearly recertification votes... You have absolutley no idea what RTW is,do you??? If it was solely about a monetary hit,there might room for comprimise...Since this is solely about busting unions legislatively,one can see why there is a push back... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 You keep ignoring the fact they're also being 'asked' to let their unions be busted by RTW legislation which would make union dues voluntary, which would stop the employer from collecting them, which would require recertification every year, and which would forbid them bargaining about anything but salary - and then refuse them the right to bargain for salary above the rate of inflation! Spot on... The free marketeering Con's love RTW for the very reasons you've stated... I wonder if The Professor could find us some stats on the wage difference,benefit plan difference,and,workplace health and safety in RTW states vs Closed Shop states??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Bonam Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Plus give up collective bargaining right...plus have mandatory yearly recertification votes... You have absolutley no idea what RTW is,do you??? If it was solely about a monetary hit,there might room for comprimise...Since this is solely about busting unions legislatively,one can see why there is a push back... Seriously dude, every one of your posts is something about "busting" and "RTW". Stop spamming buzz words. Quote
Shady Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Seriously dude, every one of your posts is something about "busting" and "RTW". Stop spamming buzz words. Spot on! He just spams the same buzz words over and over again. But doesn't actually delve into the issues. Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Without the financial resources there would be no recertification. What is being proposed would eventually lead to the demise of unions and collective bargaining. That's precisely the point of RTW... Bust the financial backs of individual union locals under the guise of "freedom"... See who's the driving force behind the RTW "movement" and then ask yourselves if these people have the indvidual workers best interest at heart,or is this yet another corporate legislative attack on workers rights to drive costs down??? And if the free marketeering con governor had any honour at all,he'd just propose a bill for the entire state of Wisconsin saying that RTW was going to be the labour law of the state... Instaed,he and his corporate bootlicking friends use this cowardly Trojan Horse method.... Typical anti-labour con weasels... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shady Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Plus give up collective bargaining right Not true. They'd continue to have collective bargaining rights related to salary. ...plus have mandatory yearly recertification votes... So what? Is that so difficult? If it was solely about a monetary hit,there might room for comprimise...Since this is solely about busting unions legislatively, one can see why there is a push back... If allowing people more choices means busting unions, then by definition, unions mean a limitation of people's rights. Nobody should be forced to join a union in the same way that nobody should be forced not to be able to join a union. Why is that choice is championed when it comes to killing babies, but when it comes to unions, or where you want to send your kids to school, it all of a sudden out of bounds? If busting unions means more freedoms, then by definition it needs to be done. Because unions are therefore severely flawed. Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Seriously dude, every one of your posts is something about "busting" and "RTW". Stop spamming buzz words. Would you prefer these buzzwords?? "Competativeness" "Productivity" "Freedom" ?????? Y'know...The neoliberal economic buzzwords.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Mr.Canada Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Wi is on the verge of becoming completely bankrupt and these union people only care for themselves and what they can get. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
GostHacked Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 No...that was a high speed interceptor. Build something for today so you don't have to whine about Americans so much. We wont need to, the USA is on the verge of a Soviet style collapse at the end of the Cold War. Quote
GWiz Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Of course, priceless means worthless. Finally, you learned something. You backtracking and groveling like this - PRICELESS! Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Not true. They'd continue to have collective bargaining rights related to salary. So what? Is that so difficult? If allowing people more choices means busting unions, then by definition, unions mean a limitation of people's rights. Nobody should be forced to join a union in the same way that nobody should be forced not to be able to join a union. Why is that choice is championed when it comes to killing babies, but when it comes to unions, or where you want to send your kids to school, it all of a sudden out of bounds? If busting unions means more freedoms, then by definition it needs to be done. Because unions are therefore severely flawed. I would like to challenge your logic as it seems you wish to limit the choice some people might make in belonging to a union. You might ask yourself who benefits the most when the capacity to organize collectively is taken away by the state. It should be obvious that such a state of affairs is to the detriment of working people and a boon to those with wealth and power. I also challenge your assertion that anyone is forced to join a union. I have to assume you are unfamiliar with the certification process as your remarks indicate a lack of understanding with regard to the introduction of a union in a given workplace. Finally the comparisons between abortion and the selection of a school are specious and don't serve your argument well. No one is forced to work at a unionized workplace. The only thing flawed is the reasoning in your post. Edited February 21, 2011 by pinko Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Wi is on the verge of becoming completely bankrupt and these union people only care for themselves and what they can get. These people you refer to pay taxes and are active participants in the State of Wiscosin. Why should they give up hard earned benefits because of the reckless behaviour of government? Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Is Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker Right About the Unions? Gov. Scott Walker's proposal would limit public union workers' collective bargaining rights By U.S. News Staff Posted: February 17, 2011 Print Share ThisSchool is out in Madison, Wis., today, where teachers and other union members are protesting Gov. Scott Walker’s proposed changes to the state’s labor law. The bill, which cleared the legislature’s budget committee late last night with only Republican support, would effectively limit union workers’ collective salary bargaining rights. Walker introduced it as an effort to close the state’s $3.6 billion budget gap. He said the move will prevent up to 6,000 layoffs for state employees. “We don’t have a lot of options here, folks,” Republican Rep. Alberta Darling said, according to Madison’s Channel 3000 News. “It’s not like we’re choosing to do this. We are broke.” The state Senate is expected to pass the bill, which will then move to the Republican-controlled Assembly. Thousands of protesters have flocked to the State Capitol this week in response, arguing that limiting union bargaining rights strips members of representation. Wisconsin Education Association Council President Mary Bell last night called for all citizens of the state to join the protests in Madison Thursday and Friday. “We are here tonight in the spirit of Martin Luther King calling on our union members and all Wisconsinites to look tonight into their hearts and to listen to their conscience to decide what kind of Wisconsin we want to call our home,” she said to the crowd of protesters. “What happens to the rights of some today endangers the rights of others to come.” U.S. News blogger Leslie Marshall also thinks Walker is being unreasonable. She writes: The argument put forth by Walker is that he has to get his budget in line. But Walker is lying. Statistically, whether it be Wisconsin, Ohio, Nevada, or New Jersey, union workers make on the average 6 percent less than their private sector counterparts. Also statistically, if you look at the budget of Wisconsin, the biggest savings have nothing to do with state workers or collective bargaining; by Walker’s own admission, he could save $165 million just restructuring the current debt. And we know this isn’t about money or savings to the state of Wisconsin or its citizens, it’s politics. http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/02/17/is-wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-right-about-the-unions Quote
pinko Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 The Wisconsin Taxpayers Alliance found that the average state worker earned $53,703. This is driven by pay for educators, from teachers to school superintendents, who made up 58 percent of all workers. On average, public workers do get compensated more than private-sector workers, but they are more likely to work in white-collar jobs and have a college education or better. A recent study by the liberal Economic Policy Institute noted that 59 percent of Wisconsin’s public-sector workers have at least a four-year college degree, compared to 30 percent of private-sector workers. The study found that when a worker’s education and experience are considered, public-sector workers earn more in benefits but less in salary and less overall in compensation. ------------ Walker, however, has gone much further than this. He estimates his proposal to increase all state employees’ contributions to their pension and health insurance would cost them 8 percent of their salary, or about $4,616. But for many workers, this is on top of the furloughs, meaning they could be losing as much as 11 percent of their salary. (Walker has said he’d like to end the furloughs, which continue through the current biennial budget, but has made no promise to do so.) Even at 8 percent, it’s a huge cut in pay for middle-class families. ------- His approach raises an issue of basic fairness. Union leaders argue that they have regularly given up salary increases in favor of benefit hikes. These negotiations were done in good faith (and mostly, I might add, with Republican governors Tommy Thompson and Scott McCallum over 16 of the last 24 years). Walker is basically saying, sorry, state government doesn’t have to live up to its past promises. Whatever you gave up in salary doesn’t matter; you will now contribute far more to benefits than previously agreed. Indeed, at bottom, his proposal seems as much about breaking the public employee unions as getting givebacks. A vast array of changes he’s proposed will make http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/murphyslaw/ Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) So you paid for it... You are nothing but a bought and paid for Canadian of Convenience... And you are nothing but a purveyor of utter nonsense without having the brains to get paid for it. Yes, I paid $5.00 (in 1964) for administration costs of my citizenship, but it was with money I EARNED, without any help from unions. You may be able to prove that you were born in Canada, but being a Canadian would be harder to prove for your ilk. Unless it is being anti-American and Muslim-lover, and of course being a unionist. All of which you are. Edited February 21, 2011 by Yukon Jack Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 What I said is true... Whether you take it or leave it is up to you... What you said: "Yes they do, in fact Canada has a higher GDP than the US as well..." This isn't true, and I'm not sure why you're just not admitting your mis-step here. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 If allowing people more choices means busting unions, then by definition, unions mean a limitation of people's rights. Nobody should be forced to join a union in the same way that nobody should be forced not to be able to join a union. Why is that choice is championed when it comes to killing babies, but when it comes to unions, or where you want to send your kids to school, it all of a sudden out of bounds? If busting unions means more freedoms, then by definition it needs to be done. Because unions are therefore severely flawed. Because the system doesn't work if people don't join. It's not a union at all then. If you want in - with the wages and the benefits that collective bargaining entail - they you have to agree to be part of the general agreement that is being negotiated. Otherwise, the whole thing falls apart. Suggest another arrangement that would work as well for the workers, if you have one. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Force everyone unwilling into a union today, force anyone unwilling to be Muslim tomorrow. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Pinko, I came back to this thread this morning and waded through pages of insults, topic drift, and nonsense looking for *some* facts. Thankfully, you have finally provided some. It almost makes up for your pointless insults early on. And did somebody *really* accuse Bush_Cheney of being in the klan ? Really ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Force everyone unwilling into a union today, force anyone unwilling to be Muslim tomorrow. Force everyone to wear a pith helmet on Wednesday. Thursday, we'll wear bear hats. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Here is an interesting article for those who are willing (or in case of hard-line unionists, ABLE) to read it: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/why_i_changed_my_mind_about_un.html Quote
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Force everyone to wear a pith helmet on Wednesday. Thursday, we'll wear bear hats. Intelligence is NOT your strong suit, is it? Any day of the week. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Here is an interesting article for those who are willing (or in case of hard-line unionists, ABLE) to read it: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/why_i_changed_my_mind_about_un.html Then, some longhaired, leather-jacketed maggot with a scruffy goatee drove past on a forklift. Neither one of us knew him, but seeing an older man explaining things to a young kid in a tie, he must've thought I was a new hire, and shouted out "This f___ing job suuuucks!" as he drove past. He couldn't get fired for that, thanks to the union. Great, Jack. I'm supposed to change my opinion because of some American Thinker rants ? Would you do the same if you read a few lines of leftist propaganda ? Nobody here is that impressionable. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Intelligence is NOT your strong suit, is it? Any day of the week. Sorry, but I was smirking about your weird comparison to forcing people to become Muslim. That one came from way out of left field, so I just had to make a joke about it. I think that we would do better to discuss real issues, rather than pie-in-the-sky doomsday scenarios, or whatever fantasy that was. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Yukon Jack Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Sorry, but I was smirking about your weird comparison to forcing people to become Muslim. That one came from way out of left field, so I just had to make a joke about it. I think that we would do better to discuss real issues, rather than pie-in-the-sky doomsday scenarios, or whatever fantasy that was. Forcing people into unions, denying them their right to work is not too far removed from forcing people into a religion and denying them the freedom to worship as they like. The first step towards that was started with the most moronic declaration by a head of state in human history, when George W. Bush said that Islam was a religion of peace. Pie-in-the-sky doomsday scenario? Fantasy? Edited February 21, 2011 by Yukon Jack Quote
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