Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Yes they do, in fact Canada has a higher GDP than the US as well... What ? Can you provide a link for that ? I doubt you can. This thread is so starved for links that I'm going to go fix myself some breakfast sausages... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Those who have negotiated the contract - both parties. In this case, the employer is saying that they didn't plan for their obligations. For them to legislate themselves out of their problems is unfair. Maybe taxes should be raised ? Maybe contracts should be renegotiated ? I am in agreement that for the legislature to use its legislative capacity is unfair in the circumstances especially when it abrogates bargaining rights. Whether taxes should be raised ought to be considered apart from pension considerations. Most, if not all, collective agreements will have a nominal expiry date. At such a time both parties are free to offer up proposed changes to the terms of the collective agreement. Edited February 20, 2011 by pinko Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 I am in agreement that for the legislature to use its legislative capacity is unfair in the circumstances especially when it abrogates bargaining rights. Whether taxes should be raised ought to be considered apart from pension considerations. Most, if not all, collective agreements will have a nominal expiry date. At such a time both parties are free offer up proposed changes to the terms of the collective agreement. This is labour relations 101. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Wait - are we switching to N.J. here ? What just happened ? No, but this is what you're suggesting Wisconsin does right? With no information that they haven't. But this type of action should have solved New Jersey's problems, correct? Quote
GostHacked Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 There's no money. Have you ever receieved a paycheque from a bankrupt employer? They can either make concession now, or face a mass lay off. And then, in a short period of time after that, have their contracts renegotiated to the terms being presently offered. You seem to think there's a magic money tree, when even if no money exists, somebody gets paid. That's why public sector unions are a joke. They're not grounded in economic reality Seemed like the banks that got bailouts were not grounded in economic reality either. We are still feeling the effects of that crisis. Quote
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 This is labour relations 101. Yes. I am not familiar with the labour law in Wisconsin but I am quite familiar with the law here in Manitoba and to a lesser extent other provincial jurisdictions. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 No, but this is what you're suggesting Wisconsin does right? With no information that they haven't. But this type of action should have solved New Jersey's problems, correct? I'm suggesting that's a possible course of action, but we would have to look at the numbers and the past events to discuss the best way forward. What have you got ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 What ? Can you provide a link for that ? I doubt you can. This thread is so starved for links that I'm going to go fix myself some breakfast sausages... Be glad to... But please understand it's not just based on one factor but rather ALL the "most important" factors... 2010 Quality of Life Index: 194 Countries Ranked and Rated to Reveal the Best Places to Live Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 I'm suggesting that's a possible course of action, but we would have to look at the numbers and the past events to discuss the best way forward. What have you got ? So far he has nothing specific to offer about the Wisconsin situation other than rhetoric. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Be glad to... But please understand it's not just based on one factor but rather ALL the "most important" factors... 2010 Quality of Life Index: 194 Countries Ranked and Rated to Reveal the Best Places to Live I asked for a link saying Canada's GDP was higher than the US's. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 So far he has nothing specific to offer about the Wisconsin situation other than rhetoric. Rhetoric, posturing, politics are all part of it. We are not robots. We have values. But at the heart of the issue is economics, so that should be the meat of the discussion - apologies to vegans. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Rhetoric, posturing, politics are all part of it. We are not robots. We have values. But at the heart of the issue is economics, so that should be the meat of the discussion - apologies to vegans. The meat has yet to appear on the table. Quote
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 I asked for a link saying Canada's GDP was higher than the US's. Can't be done in "simple" form, but I've already explained why here - http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18035&view=findpost&p=628740 - which only means that when and how "statistics" are presented "statistics" can mean anything you want them to - http://www.visualeconomics.com/gdp-vs-national-debt-by-country/ - therefore that site would prove my point... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 ....Imagine if your employer did that. "I would quit" you say ? Ok. What if your employer was the only one in your field ? Now what ? You can still quit...just as many teachers have, for a variety of reasons. And they find work elsewhere....nothing special about one's "field" when it comes to such choices. Private schools are also an option, but you had better be damn good, not just tenured. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Can't be done in "simple" form, but I've already explained why here - Can't be done period, if only because Canadian worker productivity has lagged far behind....by choice? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Can't be done period, if only because Canadian worker productivity has lagged far behind....by choice? No, by design. Quote
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 There's a reason why heros of the labour movement, such as Franklin Roosevelt and Fiorello Henry LaGuardia said there's no place in the public sector for unionization at all. We're seeing those reasons in many states, and many state budgets. Most recently in Wisconsin. Quote
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) There's a reason why heros of the labour movement, such as Franklin Roosevelt and Fiorello Henry LaGuardia said there's no place in the public sector for unionization at all. We're seeing those reasons in many states, and many state budgets. Most recently in Wisconsin. You still haven't been able to provide the meat my friend. Edited February 20, 2011 by pinko Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Can't be done in "simple" form, but I've already explained why here - http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18035&view=findpost&p=628740 - which only means that when and how "statistics" are presented "statistics" can mean anything you want them to - http://www.visualeconomics.com/gdp-vs-national-debt-by-country/ - therefore that site would prove my point... But GDP is a particular statistic with an agreed-upon meeting. I'll just take it that you don't have anything to back up your claim, then. The US has higher GDP per capita, let alone GDP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 You can still quit...just as many teachers have, for a variety of reasons. And they find work elsewhere....nothing special about one's "field" when it comes to such choices. Private schools are also an option, but you had better be damn good, not just tenured. That's not reasonable nor fair. Living up to agreements is the cornerstone of the post-neolithic idea of economy. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 The US has higher GDP per capita, let alone GDP: Agreed...the approximate gap is confirmed here: Hodgson noted that there is approximately a $9,000 per capita difference in labor productivity between Canada and the United States, an amount, he said, that is equivalent to what Ontario spends on health care. He maintained that if Canada were able to reach the productivity levels of the United States, it could serve as a way to cover the expenses of Canada’s increasingly costly social programs. In fact, said Hodgson, Canada could “effectively double” the money spent on its healthcare system if it achieved the same productivity levels as the United States. http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.event_summary&event_id=240478 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Can't be done period, if only because Canadian worker productivity has lagged far behind....by choice? Absolutely by choice... 11 (12 in most places) paid holidays... MINIMUM 2 weeks paid vacation after 1 year working... Universal Health Care... To name just a few... I don't think many Canadians would give up a single thing regarding the Canadian "lifestyle"... Of course those Canadians the worship at the alter of the almighty dollar would, but there really aren't that many of them when push comes to shove and ALL factors are considered... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Yukon Jack Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Question to the parents Wisconsin kids, who were spit in the face by habitual liars - also known as teachers - who call in sick, refuse to teach and walk - in perfect health, needless to say - on picket lines, demanding stuff which they could never earn on their own merit. Can you, would you EVER trust your children under the care and tutelage of these miscreants? Edited February 20, 2011 by Yukon Jack Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) That's not reasonable nor fair. Living up to agreements is the cornerstone of the post-neolithic idea of economy. Economics isn't fair....but you already knew that. Teachers have been playing this dicey game for quite a spell, hoping that school district budgets can survive the new reality. Welcome them to the real world. Edited February 20, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 But GDP is a particular statistic with an agreed-upon meeting. I'll just take it that you don't have anything to back up your claim, then. The US has higher GDP per capita, let alone GDP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita What I said is true... Whether you take it or leave it is up to you... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.