Union Busting in Wisconsin

[Yukon Jack]

just take look at the mugs of the top dogs (no offense meant to our canine friends) of all the major unions, and tell me just one who does not scare the bejeesus out of any decent person.

Richard Trumka and Leo Girard are scary enough to frighthen more than just kids. A thug is a thug. And a picture is worth a thousand words.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Yukon Jack

[bloodyminded]

just take look at the mugs of the top dogs (no offense meant to our canine friends) of all the major unions, and tell me just one who does not scare the bejeesus out of any decent person.

Richard Trumka and Leo Girard are scary enough to frighthen more than just kids. A thug is a thug. And a picture is worth a thousand words.

Not in the case of someone's physical characteristics.

I've seen reaching before, but this point's stretched all the way to lunacy-land.

[Yukon Jack]

As a scab you demonstrated that you are a low life. Maybe you should crawl back under that rock from which you came. It is unfortunate your parents spawned such a creature.

You were just one of a long line of management lackeys.

Your post proves that you are envious about my residence. And everything else I have that I earned without Union assistance. And just for the record, my parents ARE proud of me. They always taught me the worth of SELF-RELIANCE, something incompetent union lackeys can't ever know.

BTW, if your parents had been responsible, they would have chosen the unionist/liberal/Democratic/Communist view, and they would have aborted you.

[pinko]

Your post proves that you are envious about my residence. And everything else I have that I earned without Union assistance. And just for the record, my parents ARE proud of me. They always taught me the worth of SELF-RELIANCE, something incompetent union lackeys can't ever know.

BTW, if your parents had been responsible, they would have chosen the unionist/liberal/Democratic/Communist view, and they would have aborted you.

I have no idea where you live nor do I really care. You seem to have a need to display your self worth by belittling others.

[Yukon Jack]

While I - reluctantly - admit that there may still be a place for unions representing workers in thre PRIVATE sector, there is absolutely no reason or viable cause for unions in the PUBLIC sector.

The article and the comments following it are worth viewing by all on either side of this debate:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/end_public_sector_unionsperiod.html

[bloodyminded]

BTW, if your parents had been responsible, they would have chosen the unionist/liberal/Democratic/Communist view, and they would have aborted you.

"Union/liberal/Democratic/Communist"?

First of all, by using the capital-"D" "Democratic," you are exposing your view that everything and everyone is all about America.

Second of all, the Communist totalitarians were often not too friendly with actual unions. Dictators generally hate unions.

As do their Western supporters and defenders.

Edited February 20, 2011 by bloodyminded

[pinko]

It's generally understood that we live in a time of growing income inequality, but "the ordinary person is not really aware of how big it is," Krugman told me. During the late 1980s and the late 1990s, the United States experienced two unprecedentedly long periods of sustained economic growth—the "seven fat years" and the " long boom." Yet from 1980 to 2005, more than 80 percent of total increase in Americans' income went to the top 1 percent. Economic growth was more sluggish in the aughts, but the decade saw productivity increase by about 20 percent. Yet virtually none of the increase translated into wage growth at middle and lower incomes, an outcome that left many economists scratching their heads.

Here is a snapshot of income distribution during the past 100 years:

http://www.slate.com/id/2266025/entry/2266026

[pinko]

when it comes to real as opposed to imagined social mobility, surveys find less in the United States than in much of (what we consider) the class-bound Old World. France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Spain—not to mention some newer nations like Canada and Australia—are all places where your chances of rising from the bottom are better than they are in the land of Horatio Alger's Ragged Dick.

http://www.slate.com/id/2266025/entry/2266026

[Yukon Jack]

I have no idea where you live nor do I really care. You seem to have a need to display your self worth by belittling others.

Really? Did you not say that I live under a rock, or something to that effect?

I am now and forever be willing to speak up for SELF-RELIANCE, i.e. finding your worth in the market-place on your own merit. If I could make a moderate success of my life, as an immigrant with scant knowledge of English, without any help from unions, so can and always could anybody else who has enough spine not to rely on leg-breaking, money-extorting and bullying union thugs. Did I say union thugs? Pardon the redundancy.

pinko, if I committed the sin of belittling you, it was only because you earned it. Probably the only thing in your life you earned without help from the union.

[pinko]

Really? Did you not say that I live under a rock, or something to that effect?

I am now and forever be willing to speak up for SELF-RELIANCE, i.e. finding your worth in the market-place on your own merit. If I could make a moderate success of my life, as an immigrant with scant knowledge of English, without any help from unions, so can and always could anybody else who has enough spine not to rely on leg-breaking, money-extorting and bullying union thugs. Did I say union thugs? Pardon the redundancy.

pinko, if I committed the sin of belittling you, it was only because you earned it. Probably the only thing in your life you earned without help from the union.

How saintly. How are you any different than any of us who have been in the work world? You are nothing special.

[bloodyminded]

Really? Did you not say that I live under a rock, or something to that effect?

I am now and forever be willing to speak up for SELF-RELIANCE, i.e. finding your worth in the market-place on your own merit. If I could make a moderate success of my life, as an immigrant with scant knowledge of English, without any help from unions, so can and always could anybody else who has enough spine not to rely on leg-breaking, money-extorting and bullying union thugs. Did I say union thugs? Pardon the redundancy.

pinko, if I committed the sin of belittling you, it was only because you earned it. Probably the only thing in your life you earned without help from the union.

Not only is your continual masturbation about how awesome you are somewhat boring, and exposes nothing more than an abiding cynicism about the world of which you are a little too good for...but I see no reason to take such puffery and self-aggrandizement seriously anyway.

[Yukon Jack]

"Union/liberal/Democratic/Communist"?

First of all, by using the capital-"D" "Democratic," you are exposing your view that everything and everyone is all about America.

Second of all, the Communist totalitarians were often not too friendly with actual unions. Dictators generally hate unions.

As do their Western supporters and defenders.

As someone who escaped from the Communist paradise, I can say with authority, that under the Communist rule, unions enjoyed the same privileges as they do under our decreasingly free so-called capitalistic system: Extort membership dues. Force everyone be a member. Stifle any resistance. Break legs, arms and heads to show who is boss. Stuff your own pocket and piss on the general membership.

Sorry for spelling a capital "D" . Does that mean that what I said applies only in America? Hardly.

The last time I looked the so-called New Democratic Party used the same spelling.

And BTW, after about 40 years are they still "NEW"?

[Yukon Jack]

How saintly. How are you any different than any of us who have been in the work world? You are nothing special.

Not saintly, just SELF-RELIANT. Something union-assisted incompetents have no idea about.

[Yukon Jack]

Not only is your continual masturbation about how awesome you are somewhat boring, and exposes nothing more than an abiding cynicism about the world of which you are a little too good for...but I see no reason to take such puffery and self-aggrandizement seriously anyway.

Where and when did I say I was awesome? Am I boring? Thank you, but the world I am living in perfectly OK for me. Cynicism? I don't even know what that means.

But the word "puffery" captured my attention. After looking for the definition in the dictionary, I found the perfect illustration: Your posts. Any and all of them.

[bloodyminded]

As someone who escaped from the Communist paradise, I can say with authority, that under the Communist rule, unions enjoyed the same privileges as they do under our decreasingly free so-called capitalistic system: Extort membership dues. Force everyone be a member. Stifle any resistance. Break legs, arms and heads to show who is boss. Stuff your own pocket and piss on the general membership.

And if you were telling the truth, you wouldn't post such nonsense. You know it's garbage, which makes your argument far more disgusitng than if it were simply ignorance.

One of Lenin's first moves was to quash the factory councils and the unions. Sure, communist regimes, thanks to some residual nods to ideology, allowed "unions" to remain. But they weren't unions like we think of unions.

The real powerful and authoritarian workplace entities here are private corporations. They're the thugs.

Sorry for spelling a capital "D" . Does that mean that what I said applies only in America? Hardly.

The last time I looked the so-called New Democratic Party used the same spelling.

But they're not called "the Democrats," not even in shorthand, and no one ever calls them that.

You were referring to the American Democrats, a centrist party that you unaccountably conceive of as leftist...because you think such terms as "conservative" and "liberal" are based only on American notions of what those words signify.

And BTW, after about 40 years are they still "NEW"?

You might ask why, after 20 years, right-wing knuckledraggers still throw tantrums over "communist" threats.

Edited February 20, 2011 by bloodyminded

[bloodyminded]

Where and when did I say I was awesome? Am I boring? Thank you, but the world I am living in perfectly OK for me. Cynicism? I don't even know what that means.

You keep informing us of your SELF-RELIANCE (in screaming capital letters); and what a hard worker you are, and how you never depend on anybody...

Oh yes...you're an island. Not a recipient of a society made more civil by the very ideas and programs you despise.

And luck has nothing to do with it, right?

Edited February 20, 2011 by bloodyminded

[pinko]

As someone who escaped from the Communist paradise, I can say with authority, that under the Communist rule, unions enjoyed the same privileges as they do under our decreasingly free so-called capitalistic system: Extort membership dues. Force everyone be a member. Stifle any resistance. Break legs, arms and heads to show who is boss. Stuff your own pocket and piss on the general membership.

Sorry for spelling a capital "D" . Does that mean that what I said applies only in America? Hardly.

The last time I looked the so-called New Democratic Party used the same spelling.

And BTW, after about 40 years are they still "NEW"?

When did you come to Canada? For your information the trade union movement in Canada precedes your entrance to our country. The rand formula has been in place for decades. I would have expected a self reliant computer programmer would be better informed about the nature and purpose of union dues.

By the way if you are so disenchanted with life here in Canada then move.

[bloodyminded]

Or if one hates union jobs so much...one has the choice not to take such a job.

I mean, that's the mantra when it comes to complaints about non-unionized jobs in which workers are treated poorly: "Just get another job!" we're told.

Well, then the same applies here. Stop whining about the evil unions and find a non-unionized workplace. What's the problem?

[GWiz]

Nope, he's completely right. The top 5% of wage earners pay something like 60% of all income taxes.

Prove it...

And tell me which of those "wage earners" you consider "rich" in the sense BC_2004 stated it?

Edited February 20, 2011 by GWiz

[Scotty]

Tax breaks are used to incentivise corporate investment...even the unions support that

Not that I've heard. It simply strikes me as despicable to create a budget shortfall by giving tax breaks to the wealthy, then try to take that money from the middle class workers, and oh-by-the-way also remove their bargaining rights just as a throw-in.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Scotty

[Yukon Jack]

You keep informing us of your SELF-RELIANCE (in screaming capital letters); and what a hard worker you are, and how you never depend on anybody...

Oh yes...you're an island. Not a recipient of a society made more civil by the very ideas and programs you despise.

And luck has nothing to do with it, right?

As the old saying goes: "Luck is the residue of skill and design".

Choke on that for a second, bloodyminded.

[GWiz]

But they are not desperate...American (and Canadian) garbage dumps are veritable gold mines to others around the world.

Now you're arguing with yourself... Believe me there is no part of WESTERN Europe (or Eastern Europe for that matter) that would consider the U.S.'s "garbage dumps" gold mines... If you disagree NAME the countries you refer to...

Many parts of Asia and Europe are developed. Maybe you should get out more!

I've been to and through a goodly part of Europe AND Asia thanks... That's my point my friend, mostly they ARE developed, very nicely at that, but in parts of Asia not on a par with the U.S. and Canada, more like Mexico I'd say... Perhaps it's YOU that needs to get out more because you seem "stuck" in a world that existed over 20 years ago...

Edited February 20, 2011 by GWiz

[Scotty]

Yup...that's the idea. Management knows that there is a tipping point when that strike line gets crossed by enough "scabs" wishing an honest days pay for an honest days work.

So you're saying management always pays an honest day's pay, and that no strikes are ever about legitimate causes and reasons...

Nope...your analogy fails to recognize the actual relationship of armed forces labor to their commitment and duty. It's not about fighting or defending "management".

No, it's about self interest. Management's self-interest is in having labour which does what it's told, which gets minimal or no benefits and minimal wages. The workers' self-interest is to maximum wages and benefits. The scab wants what his union colleagues want, but he's decided he'll let them do the fighting while he continues to work and support management, drawing a pay cheque.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Scotty

[pinko]

Prove it...

And tell me which of those "wage earners" you consider "rich" in the sense BC_2004 stated it?

Here is one source which seems to address the issue.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

[Scotty]

No, it's completely fair. Asking people making 6 figure salaries to pay half of what everybody else pays into their health and pension benefits is beyond fair.

You have a pretty bizarre view of what public servants make.

And you continue to focus on comparisons in pension contributions while ignoring the obvious union-busting add-ons in this legislation. Why?