Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Looks like this is spilling over into Ohio and Indiana now .... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/17/dnc-expands-mobilization-protests-ohio-indiana_n_824743.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-16/union-protests-at-ind-statehouse-on-gop-proposals.html Exactly. Just like it's already hit in New Jersey, New York and California. Each of those governors have been dealing with the same type of situation, and each has gotten major concessions from the public unions. Even though they've received death threats etc, and been called every name in the book. But it has to be done. It's not about ideology, it's about math. Some people still don't understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Jack Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 When did you come to Canada? For your information the trade union movement in Canada precedes your entrance to our country. The rand formula has been in place for decades. I would have expected a self reliant computer programmer would be better informed about the nature and purpose of union dues. By the way if you are so disenchanted with life here in Canada then move. I've EARNED my Canadian Citizenship, unlike the boobs, who by sheer luck were born here. And yes, I heard the mantra, time and time again, from those who have been Canadian Citizens far shorter than I have been: Go where you came from/move. I am probably happier with my life than you are with yours. After all, I EARNED my citizenship, you on the other hand had the blind luck to be born into it. I EARNED all the benefits in my life without union thugs terrifying decent people on my behalf. I opted out of unions as soon as as I could, unlike you who swore fealty to them. I saved me lots of dollars by not being a slave to the Rand formula, unlike you and your ilk. Let's face it: Jealousy will get you nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Prove it... It's a fact, as well as public knowledge. You can access it through various sources online, including the IRS. The top 5% pay 53% of all income taxes. The top 10% pay 65% of all income taxes. The top 50% pay 96% of all income taxes. The bottome 50% pay virtually nothing in income taxes. Educate yourself better. It helps when discussing these types of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 As the old saying goes: "Luck is the residue of skill and design". Choke on that for a second, bloodyminded. It's a platitude, not an objective truth. The writer doesn't even know what actual "luck" means. No, you go ahead, Jack. If it pleases you to think that everything good that happens to you is the result of your personal excellence (and, by direct and neccessary extension, everything bad that happens to you or others is the result of personal failings)...well, knock yourself out. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Exactly. Just like it's already hit in New Jersey, New York and California. Each of those governors have been dealing with the same type of situation, and each has gotten major concessions from the public unions. Even though they've received death threats etc, and been called every name in the book. But it has to be done. It's not about ideology, it's about math. Some people still don't understand that. It would seem to me that those governing the USA aren't particularly good at math. I should add that based on performance since Ronald Raygun they aren't very good at distributing income in the appropriate manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Gosh...I hope so for the sake of Wisconsin taxpayers. If they go belly up, Vikings fans will have to feed Super Bowl Champion cheesheads. Can you think of any place in the world where the absence of unions has led to a better society with happier, wealthier 'taxpayers'? Because it seems to me that the places where unions are strongest tend to be the places which have better societies with less poverty, misery, crime and slums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Sorry, but you just don't know what you are talking about. How could you....you don't work for the IRS. What do you consider "rich", people earning less than $1 MILLION NET ANNUALLY or those earning above? Perhaps you're considering everybody earning over the median income "rich"? Median household income, 2008 $52,029 Persons below poverty level, percent, 2008 13.2% http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I've EARNED my Canadian Citizenship, unlike the boobs, who by sheer luck were born here. Ah, but a moment ago, you asserted that As the old saying goes: "Luck is the residue of skill and design". You're now reduced to arguing with yourself. Which is your first sensible move in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Can you think of any place in the world where the absence of unions has led to a better society with happier, wealthier 'taxpayers'? Because it seems to me that the places where unions are strongest tend to be the places which have better societies with less poverty, misery, crime and slums. Definitely. And it's odd to watch people argue against their own self-interest, and against the interest of society as a whole, simply because they have bought into infantile propaganda. Edited February 20, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I've EARNED my Canadian Citizenship, unlike the boobs, who by sheer luck were born here. And yes, I heard the mantra, time and time again, from those who have been Canadian Citizens far shorter than I have been: Go where you came from/move. I am probably happier with my life than you are with yours. After all, I EARNED my citizenship, you on the other hand had the blind luck to be born into it. I EARNED all the benefits in my life without union thugs terrifying decent people on my behalf. I opted out of unions as soon as as I could, unlike you who swore fealty to them. I saved me lots of dollars by not being a slave to the Rand formula, unlike you and your ilk. Let's face it: Jealousy will get you nowhere. I am a third generation Canadian and some of my relatives came to Canada(USA) at the turn of the 20th century from Eastern Europe. I have lived in Canada all my life and just like you spent over 30 years in the work world. The picture you portray of unions is largely fictional and for the most part a figment of your imagination. I suspect the reason you didn't move to a non-union shop is that the comfort provided in a unionized workplace was more to your liking. You fool no one with your story telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Who cares if they agree to this, legislate it. The unions have been holding the public ransom for far too long and they're sick of it. Every couple years some whiny group is striking to get pay rates and benefits not seen anywhere else in the free world. I'm willing to bet just about anything that the benefits for public sector workers in Wisconsin are worse than the public sector workers get in virtually the entire free world. Americans seem to think if they get three weeks holidays that's a shockingly good benefit, clueless that Europeans tend to get 6-8 weeks. Oh, Wisconsin workers get health care as part of their benefits! Most other citizens of the 'free world' get that as part of their CITIZENSHIP! As for their pay rates, Canadian teachers would laugh at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I disagree with your premise. It's not just a minor part of the problem. It's why Governors in New Jersey, New York, and California are all trying to do similar things. They're all asking public sector unions to either take pay freezes, pay cuts, or contribute more to their pensions and benefits. I'm sorry that you're so ill informed. Are they demanding unions give up bargaining rights, to be re certified every year, to abandon mandatory dues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I don't see why some people are against the Tea Party. They want lower taxes and for government to show more respect for their hard earned tax dollars. How is this a bad thing? They're basically like scabs. They want all the good things government brings, but they don't want to pay for any of them. As for the good things government brings to OTHER people, like welfare, pensions, etc., the tea partiers don't feel that's necessary since it doesn't directly help THEM. Like scabs they're basically self-centred, and care only about themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Jack Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 It's a platitude, not an objective truth. The writer doesn't even know what actual "luck" means. No, you go ahead, Jack. If it pleases you to think that everything good that happens to you is the result of your personal excellence (and, by direct and neccessary extension, everything bad that happens to you or others is the result of personal failings)...well, knock yourself out. Enjoy. Thank you, bloodyminded! It indeed pleases me that what I have in my life (however little it might seem compared to the ripped off theft benefiting union members) I have the pride that I earned it for myself. Keep in mind that relying on leg-breaking, head-bashing, lying, stealing and cheating union thug IS a personal failure. Knock myself out? Why should I do that? Being unconscious is one of the strength of a iberal. You know, when you don't have to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 It would seem to me that those governing the USA aren't particularly good at math. I should add that based on performance since Ronald Raygun they aren't very good at distributing income in the appropriate manner. This has nothing to do with any President. These are state level issues that are bankrupting the states. And therefore being resolved by the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 "Keep in mind that relying on leg-breaking, head-bashing, lying, stealing and cheating union thug IS a personal failure." How about some examples as well as the specifics of these labour disputes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 The research has already been done...even the American lower middle class lives like kings compared to many other nations, including many in Europe and Asia. The American lower middle class live like serfs compared to western European citizens. They struggle under low paying jobs with long hours and without benefits, at the mercy of employers, or of any illness which befalls them or their family, or any economic circumstance which costs them their job. Workers in Europe, by contrast, have generous benefits, lots of holidays and sick days, pensions, and full health care protection, as well as generous social payments and training programs if they're out of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 The American lower middle class live like serfs compared to western European citizens. Complete nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 This has nothing to do with any President. These are state level issues that are bankrupting the states. And therefore being resolved by the states. Are you suggesting the meltdown in 2008 hasn't precipitated these events? Are you familiar with the history in California as it relates to the neoliberal model? Reagen and his pal Pete Wilson were instrumental in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Are you suggesting the meltdown in 2008 hasn't precipitated these events? The unsustainable pension and benefits were already a big problem. The recession just fastracked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 The unsustainable pension and benefits were already a big problem. The recession just fastracked it. I am wondering if you could provide the necessary proof to backup your assertion relative to the pension plan. By the way what expertise do you bring to the discussion when it comes to pension plans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 That's PURE BS BC, and you know it... It actually isn't. The top tier of income earners pay the lions share of income taxes.I think the top 1% earners pay something like 40% by themselves. The bottom 50% of American income earners pay virtually no income taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Jack Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I am a third generation Canadian and some of my relatives came to Canada(USA) at the turn of the 20th century from Eastern Europe. I have lived in Canada all my life and just like you spent over 30 years in the work world. The picture you portray of unions is largely fictional and for the most part a figment of your imagination. I suspect the reason you didn't move to a non-union shop is that the comfort provided in a unionized workplace was more to your liking. You fool no one with your story telling. Pinko, picture a new wave of immigrants to Canada, late fifties, early sixties, those of us who know more than your ancestors and obviously more than you will ever know. pinko, I stayed with the company of my choice, but I moved in to the non-union side. It was my choice and I took it. No regrets, no sorry, in fact glory alleluyah!! My 37 years with the same company was REAL, not a figment of my imagination. If there is any story to be relegated to the world of fantasy it is that unions ever helped anyone except their own executives. Pity that lowly members fell for the crap that they were ever represented by the fat cat union executives. I DID move to a non-union shop. It was called the Company, who signed my pay-cheque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Complete nonsense. NO, absolute TRUTH is not "nonsense" it's "sense" and FACT... Look it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 It's about time someone stood up to the unions. We the taxpayers can not afford to fund union pensions and health care benefits. They don't fund ours. We have to pay for our own retirements and health care. This sounds like the typical rant of the jealous. Maybe instead of trying to take away other people's benefits people without unions should try organizing one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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