August1991 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Remember wafergate? Stephen Harper was accused of pocketing a host in a Catholic Church in New Brunswick. The English-Canadian media went into a feeding frenzy and there were endless (Internet) discussions about whether he did/didn't and whether he denied/didn't, lied or not. Or how about Helena Guergis at an airport in Charlottetown? Once again, the English-Canadian media obsessed about an incident. Did she or didn't she? What did the PM do/say? Or Lisa Raitt? Her recorded comments were published and once again, the English-Canadian media - and the Official Opposition - obsessed over an incident. Is this because of the Internet and "Social Media"? Years ago, returning to Canada after some time abroad, I picked up a Macleans magazine with a cover story about "pepper spray". I recall thinking how parochial Canadian politics were. Parochial? Andrew Coyne, of all people, has declared that Bev Oda's "Not" is a "test of our democracy". Columnists and posters here claim that Bev Oda lied to parliament and this somehow makes Canada a dictatorship. Meanwhile, in Bahrein, Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt demonstrators are dying to rid themselves of leaders in place for 30 years or more. ---- I have posted elsewhere my own thoughts on this latest tempest in a glass of water. I happen to think that Ignatieff/Layton are politically tone-deaf to pursue the issue. There ain't a vote in it. (I note that Layton has the wisdom to let other NDP MPs carry the ball.) On this, I'm not alone. According to Jane Taber, Darrel Bricker agrees with me: “If you already think that Stephen Harper is an unethical control freak, this just convinces you you’re right. If you like Harper and the Tories, you’re probably giving them a pass.” To the Ipsos Reid CEO, there is no scandal. Bev Oda is no Jim Flaherty, he says, underlining the fact she’s not a high profile minister. The issue is slightly confusing, he says, and also mundane. “For a scandal to really have teeth it needs it needs much more lurid content. Inserting an extra word in a government document lacks the punch of getting a bribe or kickback ... Think Adscam and you'll understand what type of scandal moves votes.” He suggests the opposition proceed with caution. “You’re having fun right now and feel like you’re really hurting the government. You’re not.” But if I were a Liberal, I'd be more concerned about this: A separate, one-week survey looked at leadership. It showed sharp contrasts between Mr. Harper and Mr. Ignatieff. The Prime Minister got favourable ratings from 46 per cent of those surveyed, with 43 per cent unfavourable. The Liberal Leader got a favourable nod from 25 per cent, with 51 per cent holding an unfavourable view. G&MIMV, the last thing Ignatieff wants now is an image of him picking on a grandmother - with a cigarette/dark sunglasses or not. That is, has anyone noticed that the Opposition/Toronto MSM seems to pick on women? ------ The point of my thread is that English Canadian media/posters seem to obsess or go into a feeding frenzy about truly minor federal issues. In Quebec (French Canada), media/posters do the same, but on other issues and the frenzy is usually shorter unless it morphs into a debate about Quebec independence. If anyone in Stephen Harper's office, or in Bev Oda's office, reads this, my advice would be: fugeddaboutit. It's a feeding frenzy that will pass. The publisher and editor of the New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal are no longer with the paper after it was forced to apologize to Stephen Harper and two of its own reporters over a story about whether the prime minister took communion at the state funeral of former governor general Roméo LeBlanc. CBC Edited February 18, 2011 by August1991 Quote
nicky10013 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 To include the Bev Oda situation to "wafergate" and Guergis getting upset at an airport, or Lisa Raitt calling cancer sexy is horribly wrong. The things you lumped Oda in with were unfortunate, ill timed and certainly distasteful, but they weren't illegal. This was. Quote
August1991 Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) To include the Bev Oda situation to "wafergate" and Guergis getting upset at an airport, or Lisa Raitt calling cancer sexy is horribly wrong. The things you lumped Oda in with were unfortunate, ill timed and certainly distasteful, but they weren't illegal. This was. Gimme a break. I've heard the refrain before. Nicky, this is just another feeding frenzy. And this time, it's composed primarily of people who hate Harper.There are some 24 million English Canadians (more or less). If 0.1% hate Harper, that's 24,000 people - enough to populate English Canadian Internet forums and the Toronto MSM. [English Canadians? I checked my French Canadian forum and there's no mention of Oda in the main threads. Shale gas and Serge Ménard are more important topics.] My general criteria for a "Canadian scandal" is whether it registers in both official languages. Adscam, for example, did. Edited February 18, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Shwa Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Gimme a break. I've heard the refrain before. Nicky, this is just another feeding frenzy. And this time, it's composed primarily of people who hate Harper. There are some 24 million English Canadians (more or less). If 0.1% hate Harper, that's 24,000 people - enough to populate English Canadian Internet forums and the Toronto MSM. [English Canadians? I checked my French Canadian forum and there's no mention of Oda in the main threads. Shale gas and Serge Ménard are more important topics.] My general criteria for a "Canadian scandal" is whether it registers in both official languages. Adscam, for example, did. Very interesting August - it wasn't enough for you to repeatedly state that this issue wouldn't gain traction with voters in the other thread, now you start another. So are you saying that Le Devoir and Radio-Canada are not reporting on this petit affair? Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Gimme a break. I've heard the refrain before. Nicky, this is just another feeding frenzy. And this time, it's composed primarily of people who hate Harper. There are some 24 million English Canadians (more or less). If 0.1% hate Harper, that's 24,000 people - enough to populate English Canadian Internet forums and the Toronto MSM. [English Canadians? I checked my French Canadian forum and there's no mention of Oda in the main threads. Shale gas and Serge Ménard are more important topics.] My general criteria for a "Canadian scandal" is whether it registers in both official languages. Adscam, for example, did. In other words, you do a ten second anecdotal survey, declare that a Minister lying to Parliament isn't a big deal, and then accuse the media of a feeding frenzy. Last time I checked the Bloc is just as eager to roast Oda over an open fire as them hyperactive Anglos. I'm more curious as to why you think breaches of Parliament's privileges are no big deal. Quote
August1991 Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) So are you saying that Le Devoir and Radio-Canada are not reporting on this petit affair?Bev Oda? Personne n'en parle.Guy A. Lepage has invited the Anglophone group Arkade Fire for his show, next Sunday. ----- Thank God, we are a civilized country with two languages. Then again, maybe we should be two separate countries living in civilized manner beside one another. In this 21st century, what`s best? Edited February 18, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Bryan Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 The left has to latch on to these faux outrages because this government hasn't done anything that's actually scandalous. An opposition's job is to oppose. If what's really happening is actually good (so much so that publicly opposing it would hurt rather than help your position), you need to make up things that can be made to sound bad if you torque them enough. Quote
waldo Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 The left has to latch on to these faux outrages because this government hasn't done anything that's actually scandalous. nothing 'faux' about it... clearly, the booster club has no qualms with government ministers lying and/or misleading Parliament. Quote
Bryan Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 nothing 'faux' about it... clearly, the booster club has no qualms with government ministers lying and/or misleading Parliament. I have serious qualms about such things. If it ever happens, I'll be the first to call for the minister to resign. In the Bev Oda case, the people doing the lying are the opposition and the PPG. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I have serious qualms about such things. If it ever happens, I'll be the first to call for the minister to resign. In the Bev Oda case, the people doing the lying are the opposition and the PPG. Did Oda not claim both in Committee and in the House that she didn't know who added the "not" and that it wasn't at her direction? Did she not later admit in the House that it was done at her direction? That, my friend, constitutes a lie. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Shwa Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Bev Oda? Personne n'en parle. Really? I thought I saw something in Le Devoir and Radio-Canada. Must have been a mistake. Quote
PIK Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Speaking of real scandals. have we ever recieved the 40 million the libs got caught stealing from the taxpayer. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Shakeyhands Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Speaking of real scandals. have we ever recieved the 40 million the libs got caught stealing from the taxpayer. DEFLECT!!!!!!! ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!! The Liberals are enjoying the fall out, and have been for a number of years. Will the CPC step up and do what is right in the Oda situation? That's the real question here, crrying "BUT the Liberals" every time isn't going to cut it. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Saipan Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!!ADSCAM!! Indeed. It comes down to $$$$ How much money was stolen. That's the bottom line. Always. If someone lies that "he didn't have sex with that woman" or that he "will kill GST and NAFTA" and then milk it for all it's worth, we know who's lying more. But we want to know where our money goes. So if someone lies that he "balanced the budget" and then we find out he stole it from E.I. and pension fund, that is serious offence. But if the rascal is rich enough and have national broadcaster to support him he can get away with it. Quote
eyeball Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I'm more curious as to why you think breaches of Parliament's privileges are no big deal. I'm curious why I should shrug off the fact that politicians lie to and mislead voters all the time but the minute they lie to one another I'm expected to go ballistic. To paraphrase Jane Taber “If you already think that Parliament is a cesspool and our political system is a waste of time, this just convinces you you’re right.” Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
madmax Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Wafergate? Joke Guergis? Ask Harper, its was him who turfed her. Raitt? She was stupid. Oda? NOT! Quote
Moonbox Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 To paraphrase Jane Taber “If you already think that Parliament is a cesspool and our political system is a waste of time, this just convinces you you’re right.” It is a cesspool of lies. Anyone who doesn't see it is fooling themselves. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Saipan Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Guergis? Ask Harper, its was him who turfed her. After the oppositon went bananas and wanted her out. Then turned 180 deg. What else is new. Quote
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 There was a piece in the Globe this morning which kind of agreed with August's view. Those who hate the tories seem to love these little stories, but I don't think they're gaining the opposition much traction with the voters. The Liberals are making the government’s authoritarian and abusive approach to the rights of Parliament and the people a key element of their election message. How could they not, given this government’s behaviour? But the number of people who care about parliamentary privilege is minuscule. That does not mean most people don’t have political values. We know from endless polling and from conversations in bars – sorry, at Tim Hortons – that a lot of us were spooked by the last recession, a lot of us are still leery about where the economy is headed, and a lot of us think the streets are becoming more dangerous. And don’t wave a StatsCan data set showing it’s not true. People know what they know. So while the opposition spent an entire week devoted to the Conservatives’ contempt for Parliament, the Conservatives, not even bothering to notice, carried on pounding their themes of fiscal responsibility and getting tough on crime. Who do you think had the better strategy? John Ibbitson Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Bryan Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Did Oda not claim both in Committee and in the House that she didn't know who added the "not" and that it wasn't at her direction? Did she not later admit in the House that it was done at her direction? That, my friend, constitutes a lie. That's what the opposition and the PPG are claiming, but it's not what happened. Again, the lie is theirs, not hers. Quote
waldo Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 The left has to latch on to these faux outrages because this government hasn't done anything that's actually scandalous. nothing 'faux' about it... clearly, the booster club has no qualms with government ministers lying and/or misleading Parliament. I have serious qualms about such things. If it ever happens, I'll be the first to call for the minister to resign. In the Bev Oda case, the people doing the lying are the opposition and the PPG. Did Oda not claim both in Committee and in the House that she didn't know who added the "not" and that it wasn't at her direction? Did she not later admit in the House that it was done at her direction? That, my friend, constitutes a lie. That's what the opposition and the PPG are claiming, but it's not what happened. Again, the lie is theirs, not hers. then what did happen, do tell, do tell... set the record, uhhh... straight! What did happen? Quote
Shakeyhands Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 That's what the opposition and the PPG are claiming, but it's not what happened. Again, the lie is theirs, not hers. That is exactly what happened. Check the Hansard. She lied, period. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
madmax Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) After the oppositon went bananas and wanted her out. Then turned 180 deg. What else is new. Funny, Doesn't seem Guergis is welcome in the Conservative Cliques. Who went bananas and kept her out? continue blaming of others for Conservative Transgressions and Decisions. What else is new. Edited February 18, 2011 by madmax Quote
madmax Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) That's what the opposition and the PPG are claiming, but it's not what happened. Again, the lie is theirs, not hers. Ah, Oda is the truth teller... thanks for the update. Edited February 18, 2011 by madmax Quote
Saipan Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Who went bananas and kept her out? The whole opposition stampede. Quote
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