bill_barilko Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 If only we had someone with as much guts here in Canada.It's true the rot isn't as deep here but the smell of decay is everywhere. State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron The prime minister will criticise "state multiculturalism" in his first speech on radicalisation and the causes of terrorism since being elected.[/i] Addressing a security conference in Germany, David Cameron will argue the UK needs a stronger national identity to prevent people turning to extremism. Different cultures are encouraged to live apart, and objectionable views met with "passive tolerance", he will say. He will also signal a tougher stance on groups promoting Islamist extremism. Mr Cameron is to suggest there will be greater scrutiny of some Muslim groups that get public money but do little to tackle extremism. Ministers should refuse to share platforms or engage with such groups, which should be denied access to public funds and barred from spreading their message in universities and prisons, he will argue. "Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," the prime minister will say. "Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism? "These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," he will add. "We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values” BBC political correspondent Ben Wright said the prime minister would be delivering a stark message to his audience in Munich - that European countries must "wake up to what's happening within their borders". Mr Cameron will draw a clear distinction between Islam the religion and what he describes as "Islamist extremism" - a political ideology he says attracts people who feel "rootless" within their own countries. "We need to be clear: Islamist extremism and Islam are not the same thing." The government is currently reviewing its policy to prevent violent extremism, known as Prevent, which is a key part of its wider counter-terrorism strategy. The short speech will make it clear that Mr Cameron wants a stronger sense of citizenship and national belonging to replace an approach he thinks has failed, added our correspondent. 'I am a Londoner too' A genuinely liberal country "believes in certain values and actively promotes them," Mr Cameron will say. "Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights, regardless of race, sex or sexuality. "It says to its citizens: This is what defines us as a society. To belong here is to believe these things. "Each of us in our own countries must be unambiguous and hard-nosed about this defence of our liberty." He will say that under the "doctrine of state multiculturalism", different cultures have been encouraged to live separate lives. "We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values." Building a stronger sense of national and local identity holds "the key to achieving true cohesion" by allowing people to say "I am a Muslim, I am a Hindu, I am a Christian, but I am a Londoner... too", he will say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 "Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights, regardless of race, sex or sexuality. He should have added: "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" So what's this about a national identity ? He's stealing their identity from a country that distinctly wanted to be independent of Britain. This seems to me to be posturing, posing for the cameras. If he wants to use the American identity, then that's fine, but he should also add: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 US immigration is at 1 million per year roughly the same rate as the UK. Both of those countries have issues with immigration, and - surprise, surprise - it's a hot button issue in both places. The US doesn't have official multiculturalism either, so I don't believe that that is as directly related to the issue as the politics is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 US immigration is at 1 million per year roughly the same rate as the UK. Ummm...yea...that would be legal US immigration. Illegal immigration is down to about 50% of that, or 500,000 per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Ummm...yea...that would be legal US immigration. Illegal immigration is down to about 50% of that, or 500,000 per year. So you're doing even better than the UK with more immigration. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 He should have added: "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" Seems its self evident that there is a Creator. Guess I missed the evident part. Then there's the word "inalienable"??? Life - how many states have a death penalty? Liberty - how many people are in jail in the US? Pursuit of Happiness - I like pot, it makes me happy so why am I in jail? (thats rhetorical). those rights are certainly not inalienable. True, its a semantic argument, but somebody once told me that words are important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 True, its a semantic argument, but somebody once told me that words are important. Sure, and that's likely why the UK has appropriated the American dream for themselves. Kinda like your dad wearing jeans to be cool like the kids. Canada's first election was in 1841, I think, only about one lifetime behind the Americans on that one so we're catching up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) ...Canada's first election was in 1841, I think, only about one lifetime behind the Americans on that one so we're catching up. Canada's Constitution Act is a lot younger than that...and also borrowed from the Americans. Edited February 5, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Canada's Constitution Act is a lot younger than that...and also borrowed from the Americans. Only sorta kinda. The charter of rights and freedoms is certainly derivative since the americans claimed so many of them first, so long ago. And hey, we borrow a lot from our neighbours and vice versa. You can keep Celine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Only sorta kinda. The charter of rights and freedoms is certainly derivative since the americans claimed so many of them first, so long ago. And hey, we borrow a lot from our neighbours and vice versa. You can keep Celine. Celine packs them in for Las Vegas, just like any other Canadian act that has found success in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 He should have added: "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" So what's this about a national identity ? He's stealing their identity from a country that distinctly wanted to be independent of Britain. This seems to me to be posturing, posing for the cameras. If he wants to use the American identity, then that's fine, but he should also add: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" When government starts talking about the need for "national identity" its time to start keeping a real close eye on the fuckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 When government starts talking about the need for "national identity" its time to start keeping a real close eye on the fuckers. Obviously...you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 When government starts talking about the need for "national identity" its time to start keeping a real close eye on the fuckers. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 He should have added: "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" He wasn't exactly emulating the Americans in wanting newcomers to learn to adapt and become more like native citzens in culture and outlook. Gordon Brown said much the same, and the sentiment has been expressed by a number of European leaders now, including Germany's chancellor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 When government starts talking about the need for "national identity" its time to start keeping a real close eye on the fuckers. I don't agree. I have no problem with immigrants or immigration. They should come as Canadians or Americans. They left hellholes. They have no right to demand that we do things the way they do in their hellholes. And if that means we can run cartoons they don't like, that should be fine with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 I don't agree. I have no problem with immigrants or immigration. They should come as Canadians or Americans. They left hellholes. They have no right to demand that we do things the way they do in their hellholes. And if that means we can run cartoons they don't like, that should be fine with them. I agree,however,it's not hard to see how that could expand into a form of virulent xenophobia... It's one thing to be vigilant,it's another to allow our darker fears to take over and become insular.History is dotted with that and it never ends up in a good place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Canada's Constitution Act is a lot younger than that... There's more than one Constitution Act. ...and also borrowed from the Americans. And the U.S. Bill of Rights was greatly influenced by the English Bill of Rights 1689 as well as the Magna Carta, not to mention the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution greatly borrowing from European liberal/natural rights writers/philosophers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 They left hellholes. They have no right to demand that we do things the way they do in their hellholes. And if that means we can run cartoons they don't like, that should be fine with them. That amounts to legislating people's attitudes, something usually associated with government-happy leftists right ? Can we make it illegal for you to not be fine with, say, taxation levels ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Celine packs them in for Las Vegas, just like any other Canadian act that has found success in America. She is not Canadian, she is from Quebec. And you can keep her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Canada's Constitution Act is a lot younger than that...and also borrowed from the Americans. Maybe we should borrow the Patriot Act as well so we can circumvent the constitution, just like the good ol USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 They have no right to demand that we do things the way they do in their hellholes. And if that means we can run cartoons they don't like, that should be fine with them. The divide on unfettered liberalism goes beyond merely "immigrants" vs. "non-immigrants". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 I don't agree. I have no problem with immigrants or immigration. They should come as Canadians or Americans. They left hellholes. They have no right to demand that we do things the way they do in their hellholes. And if that means we can run cartoons they don't like, that should be fine with them. Immigrants should be Canadians or Americans. Well... Canadians and Americans have the right to let it be known when they feel offended, including the right to seek an end to the perceived offence, provided of course that they do it in a legal manner. In other words, Canadians and Americans have the right not to be fine with wha they find offensive. Since you want immigrants to be Canadians or Americans, surely you want them to have this right as much other Canadians and Americans have it, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 She is not Canadian, she is from Quebec. And you can keep her. She is Canadian, since she is from Quebec, and I'd agree with you about the Americans keeping her... except that would be anti-American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 She is Canadian, since she is from Quebec, and I'd agree with you about the Americans keeping her... except that would be anti-American. Quebecers for the most part don`t consider themselves `Canadian`. So no, she is not `Canadian`. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Quebecers for the most part don`t consider themselves `Canadian`. I believe a certain referendum did prove you wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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