CFL light bulbs

Jack Weber · February 4, 2011

No

USFL ones are better, but hard to find since the demise.

Nice...

A fan of the Boston Breakers or the Oakland Invaders?

I thought he was talking about the Canadian Football League...

charter.rights · February 4, 2011

Lighting, furnace blowers, appliances, electronic equipment and lighting only represent about 10% of your total energy consumption in the average house. The number one energy waster - the hot water tank - uses on its own about 40% of the total energy consumption, then the furnace (20%) and the dryer (10%). Want to save energy (and money?) Installing a direct vent gas on-demand hot water heater will cut the hot water consumption in half; an air source heat pump depending on the location can cut from 10% to 40% of the heating bill; and insulating the basement walls full height to R20 will save about 10% of the heating budget.

What people don't consider is that CFLs may actually cost more to operate in the winter over incandescent bubls because the latter give off heat that is recovered in the heating of the home (100 watts = 341 BTUs: average house uses about 60-100,000 BTU/H in heating)

Money wasters:

1. New windows even over single pane windows only save about 1000 BTU/H for the average house.

2. Geothermal units have a high capital cost that in most cases will never be recovered in the lifetime of the equipment. People end up paying for the privilege of installing that kind of equipment. What the heating guys often fail to mention as well is that they only have to size the equipment to meet 70% of your heat load. The other 30% comes from an electric coil back-up in the air handler. That means that on the coldest days of the year you are operating on pure electric heat. The other myth is that geothermal is completely free heat. The compressors and pumps use more energy than a standard gas furnace. Also ground and water freezes when you take too much out of it and the geothermals are prone to shutting down. Bad investment in my opinion.

3. Adding more than R50 to an attic. Although one thinks it might be a good investment the additional insulation after R50 on has about a 2-3% effect on the heat load of a house, where up to R50 can save upwards of 20% of the heating budget. Also for walls stuffing more insulation in an already insulated wall has a negative effect. 22% of the wall area is made up of studs and plates which only have an R-value of about 3.

Good investments:

1. Air source heat pumps in milder climates is a good return on investment.

2. Adding 1 1/2" rigid foam (SM type) insulation to the inside or outside of exterior walls is the best way to add insulation. Not only do you add about R7.5 to the R20 insulated cavities but your change the stud/plate value to R10.5 from R3 AND reduce thermal bridging through the wood to the exterior.

3. 2 or 3 cases of acoustical sealant and a case of silicone caulking for the interior sealing of cracks and air leakages. In a pre-1970's house the heat losses due to infiltration can amount to more than 75% of the total heating budget. Post 1990 buildings reducing the leakage can save about 30%-40% of the heating budget. The goal would be to get the house to about 1.5 air changes per hour (can be measured by a blower-door test). Any less and you will have to also install a mechanical ventilation system to take care of excess moisture that will build up in the house. Best return on investment. Under $100 can save thousands on heating a year.

CFLs are just part of the equation in an over-all energy strategy. But putting the good money on sure things works even better.

Pliny · February 4, 2011

does anybody know if 'rough service' bulbs are banned now? They were 60 or 100 watt incandescent bulbs with a very tough filament, meant for use in trouble lights(mechanics lights). You could drop them and they still worked, and were excellent for use on ouside lights near doors, where filaments get broken easily.

Couylnd not find any at Superstore or Canadian Tire, wondered if they had been regulated out of existence.

I haven't had to buy any for awhile but I got mine at Home Depot.

As for CFLs. You would think that there would be some outrage about the fact that if one bursts in a school they do have to call in a Hazmat team.

I am not putting anymore in. I'll go to LED first.

Listening to the radio an expert on the matter explained why they don't last very long. They are rated as always on and when they are constantly turned off and on their life becomes less than an incandescent bulb.

I had one that popped a hole in it and I was walking around trying to find where this sweet burning smell was coming from. It was at the bottom the stairs and I was looking around there. It wasn't until I turned the light on to go upthe stairs that I discovered the bulb had burned out and the smell was coming from that. Is that dangerous or what?

Edited February 4, 2011 by Pliny

Pliny · February 4, 2011

The only incandescent bulbs in my home are the ones inside my stove and my fridge.

I use CFL bulbs in my fixtures and lamps, and I use LED floodlights in some directional lighting swivels in my living room. I'm very pleased with all of it, and wouldn't go back to incandescent.

I've had a grand total of 1 CFL bulb fail. It went dim after about 3 years of daily use, with no flames, explosions, or any of that sort of thing. Of course, I buy bulbs from a reputable manufacturer (Philips) rather than buying SUPER LUCKY Hong Wing Pow Brand bulbs from the dollar-store.

-k

next time you're in the lower mainland drop by. I have a few dozen to give away.

bush_cheney2004 · February 4, 2011

It's not all good for LEDs either:

LED traffic lights don't melt snow

kimmy · February 4, 2011

I had one that popped a hole in it and I was walking around trying to find where this sweet burning smell was coming from. It was at the bottom the stairs and I was looking around there. It wasn't until I turned the light on to go upthe stairs that I discovered the bulb had burned out and the smell was coming from that. Is that dangerous or what?

That's what you get for buying SUPER LUCKY Hong Wing Pow Brand.

-k

bush_cheney2004 · February 4, 2011

That's what you get for buying SUPER LUCKY Hong Wing Pow Brand.

That's true...I have a pair of GE's made in Japan that have been going strong for over 15 years. They are the big, heavy honkers that first came out...nothing "compact" about them.

The newer CFLs do seem to like colder weather as outdoor garage lights....must be easier on the electronic ballast...that's what dies most often. But they get dimmer below -20 C.

Edited February 4, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

dre · February 4, 2011

BTW... These bulbs might save on energy use in the US, but they wont save much in most of Canada. In Canada most homes are being heated for the bulk of the year so during this time you wont save anything at all. Those old incandescent were actually nice little electric heaters... 100% efficient. So the energy being "wasted" was actually being offset by your primary heating system doing less work.

In a climate where your air conditioning for most of the year though the savings can be quite substancial, because not only do you pay for the extra energy the light bulbs use, but you have to pay for it again when your air conditioner has to pump the heat they generate out of the house.

GostHacked · February 4, 2011

I have two lamps that take those types of bulbs. Aside from the obvious mercury hazards and what not, I can't stand the light these things give off. These ones are a warm glow for whatever reason, which is nice. These lamps take 3 bulbs each ... but I only got one in each .

These things were a total scam, much like anything else the government wants to throw on us to 'help' us or the planet.

Esq · February 4, 2011

The artificial lights we use should not have 490 to 505 nanometers band ranges especially those closer to the 505 band.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Esq

Pliny · February 4, 2011

That's what you get for buying SUPER LUCKY Hong Wing Pow Brand.

-k

I think that's the GE brand, isn't it?

Sir Bandelot · February 4, 2011

The artificial lights we use should not have 490 to 505 nanometers band ranges especially those closer to the 505 band.

Well I have also read that the "white" LEDs actually put out a larger blue level component. Widespread use of these lights will increase the light pollution coming from cities, a growing concern for the International Dark Sky Association, and for astronomers like me. Sodium lamps give off a very specific wavelength that is relatively easy to filter out, using a "notch" filter. Not so with LED's, or any light source with a color temperature above 3000K.

Source

Help preserve our dark skies. Please shut your outdoor lights off at night, when not needed!

PIK · February 4, 2011

does anybody know if 'rough service' bulbs are banned now? They were 60 or 100 watt incandescent bulbs with a very tough filament, meant for use in trouble lights(mechanics lights). You could drop them and they still worked, and were excellent for use on ouside lights near doors, where filaments get broken easily.

Couylnd not find any at Superstore or Canadian Tire, wondered if they had been regulated out of existence.

You can still buy them ,just go to a real hardware store.

GostHacked · February 4, 2011

Well I have also read that the "white" LEDs actually put out a larger blue level component. Widespread use of these lights will increase the light pollution coming from cities, a growing concern for the International Dark Sky Association, and for astronomers like me. Sodium lamps give off a very specific wavelength that is relatively easy to filter out, using a "notch" filter. Not so with LED's, or any light source with a color temperature above 3000K.

Source

Help preserve our dark skies. Please shut your outdoor lights off at night, when not needed!

Those bright new blue/white headlights on cars need to be banned. I mean, they might be great on a dark lonely hiway, but there is no need for these things for the majority of us, because we live in well lit cities as it is. Those damn things are so bright, they blind me all the time. I really can't stand driving at night because of it. Some have them for main and the running lights, 50% brighter, 50% farther, and I am 50% more blinded. They need to be banned from cars.

The_Squid · February 4, 2011

I can't take the whole "save the planet, use CFL's" line from the government seriously when they allow businesses to have their lights on all night long.

Go to the downtown of any city to see how much electricity is wasted at night when there is no one around. Signs are lit up.... billboards... entire office towers have their lights on.... where is the grave concerns about electricity useage???

This entire thing is a load of crap. It is being seen to be doing something, when it actuallly does nothing.

GostHacked · February 4, 2011

I can't take the whole "save the planet, use CFL's" line from the government seriously when they allow businesses to have their lights on all night long.

Go to the downtown of any city to see how much electricity is wasted at night when there is no one around. Signs are lit up.... billboards... entire office towers have their lights on.... where is the grave concerns about electricity useage???

This entire thing is a load of crap. It is being seen to be doing something, when it actuallly does nothing.

Those are good points.

PIK · February 4, 2011

IMO The enviromentalists have done more damge in the last 10 years then anyone or thing.

charter.rights · February 4, 2011

I can't take the whole "save the planet, use CFL's" line from the government seriously when they allow businesses to have their lights on all night long.

Go to the downtown of any city to see how much electricity is wasted at night when there is no one around. Signs are lit up.... billboards... entire office towers have their lights on.... where is the grave concerns about electricity useage???

This entire thing is a load of crap. It is being seen to be doing something, when it actuallly does nothing.

Believe it or not. The start up energy required to start all the ballasts on those florescent lights is more than leaving the lights on all night. It is cheaper and more energy efficient to just leave them on.

Wild Bill · February 4, 2011

I can't take the whole "save the planet, use CFL's" line from the government seriously when they allow businesses to have their lights on all night long.

Go to the downtown of any city to see how much electricity is wasted at night when there is no one around. Signs are lit up.... billboards... entire office towers have their lights on.... where is the grave concerns about electricity useage???

This entire thing is a load of crap. It is being seen to be doing something, when it actuallly does nothing.

To be fair Squid, here's another techie twist to the situation. Lights on at night really ISN'T part of the problem!

You see, demand drops like mad at night-time. People shut things off and go to bed. The peculiar thing about electricity is that so far nobody's come up with an easy way to store it! The excess capacity we have at night might as well be used to light up office buildings. We can't save it to use the next day anyway.

Some people have come up with some nifty ideas, like pumping water back up into a dam overnight so it can fall through the generators the next day but that's a BIG project, probably as expensive as building a hydro-electric dam facility in the first place. So to my knowledge no one has bothered to do it yet. They won't either, as long as there's lots of water in the dam anyway.

Understanding this facet of the situation is crucial to understanding the failings of alternative power like wind and solar. They only produce when the sun shines and the wind blows. The rest of the time they give us nothing. So you have to build backup generating stations anyway. If it's a hydro dam you won't actually see savings, since the water flows anyway. The only way you can save is if you use a generator that burns fuel to make electricity.

See where this is going? You guessed it! Coal and gas! They allow you to turn things off when you don't need the extra juice and save fuel costs.

This being so, it seems a pity that guys running the show like McGuinty have such a hate on for coal and gas generators. They are busy taking them out of service in favour of paying people huge markups on wind and solar.

This leaves us WITHOUT any baseline backup power and even MORE in a financial hole! It's been a scandal here in Ontario for a week or two when folks found out McGuinty has been PAYING Quebec and America to take our surplus power! He doesn't have coal and gas plants to turn off and the remaining sources of power are technologies that you can't turn off or throttle back that easily. The power company HAS to dump excess power somewhere so they have to pay other provinces and countries to take it!

This is just another example of how politicians are often the LAST people on earth qualified to mess with a technical problem! McGuinty hasn't got a clue how to solve such problems so he goes looking for "experts". His first problem is finding good experts but even then, because he doesn't really understand (or care!) what they're saying anyway his mind is easily diverted towards what appears "green" instead of "will work". "Green" today means it will impress voters and win their support. "Will work" means something that sounds too technical for the average voter to understand, so it won't win any votes.

Anyhow, as I said, we might as well burn the lights all night. It just doesn't make any difference anyway!

The_Squid · February 4, 2011

IMO The enviromentalists have done more damge in the last 10 years then anyone or thing.

This has nothing to do with environmentalists and everything to do with bad government policy.

If the enviros had so much pull with the federal government there wouldn't be a seal hunt. Nice try at deflecting the issue.

Wild Bill - thanks for the food for thought....

Bryan · February 5, 2011

The reason I don't use CFLs is I don't like the light they give off. Things look weird, and they give me a headache.

nicky10013 · February 5, 2011

To be fair Squid, here's another techie twist to the situation. Lights on at night really ISN'T part of the problem!

You see, demand drops like mad at night-time. People shut things off and go to bed. The peculiar thing about electricity is that so far nobody's come up with an easy way to store it! The excess capacity we have at night might as well be used to light up office buildings. We can't save it to use the next day anyway.

We (Ontario) actually sell our excess power to the US and neighbouring provinces. Seems like a good solution to me.

Smallc · February 5, 2011

There's an easy way to store hydro electricity. We do it all of the time in Manitoba. We buy US power during off peak times cheap, and then turn on the taps to the dams and sell them power at the higher daytime rates.

Saipan · February 5, 2011

They are pain in the ass. Don't start in garage, never mind outdoors in cold weather.

BUT they have light bulb poster boy for commercial$, Mr. TV entertainer David Kawasaki himself.

(once I caught him in my basement sneaking into my fridge)

http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/dumb-cfl.jpg

Wild Bill · February 5, 2011

We (Ontario) actually sell our excess power to the US and neighbouring provinces. Seems like a good solution to me.

We do when THEY need it! We also pay them to take it when we have a surplus and they DON'T have a need!

This is fact, having been quoted many times the past week in the MSM.

McGuinty, when on the defensive, claimed that over all we still get about $250 million profit from these exchanges. I can't argue with him, since he's never revealed the actual figures.

Even if true, this just illustrates what a precarious situation is developing. If everybody cuts back on baseline generation in favour of inconstant sources like wind and solar, then everybody will have surpluses at the same time and extra power needs at the same time. Yet everyone is depending on the OTHER GUY to bail him out! A typical politician attempt at a solution that has never worked yet in the real world.

This is exactly what happened in California a few years ago. Generating stations considered "dirty" were forced to shut down by the new state regulations yet nobody built any new "green" ones. Eventually brownouts and blackouts started to happen. As they occurred the spot price of electricity would go through the roof! Those owning existing generators reaped huge extra profits without having to spend a dime on new generating facilities.

Ontario is heading for record high electricity bills and even brown and blackouts! It's inevitable, since that's the way our provincial government is actually setting up the structure! To a techie, it's as obvious as trying to make a car with a flat tire run reliably not by changing the tire but by choosing a "greener" fuel to make less pollutants. It CAN'T work!

There's not a lot a homeowner can do to escape the higher bills. Switching to a gas stove and water heater will help, especially a tankless water heater. With all the domestic shale gas discoveries the retail price of natural gas will have strong downward pressures for years, making it a better deal than electricity. There are some companies already marketing generators for home use that run on natural gas. The capital cost is still very high but the savings in monthly gas bills compared to buying your electricity from the Ontario grid are considerable. As the capital costs go down as sales volumes increase the situation for a homeowner can only improve.

McGuinty's people really should have thought things through better. Now they are trying to get a grip on things by using their bureaucracy to stop issuing any more MicroFit licences, holding up applications for weeks and months and then implementing cutoff dates that disqualify all those who mailed on time but were waiting in the queue.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Wild Bill