Raising the US debt ceiling

[Yukon Jack]

If Jesus were here today he would make a whip and flog all the damned Christian rats. This buisness about putting the onus on God and beseaching him to "bless America" is bull shit - people bless people - God has better things to do that do the work that humans should be doing for each other - LET AMERICA BLESS AMERICA!

Oleg, I guess you did not see the quote marks ("), indicating that I quoted someone else.

That would explain the fact that you also failed to see the humour in my post.

Let up a little and smile! Will do you good.

[Scotty]

You don't understand what the tea party is about at all. You clearly don't understand how inefficient government is.

Spending billions of dollars on programs to help the poor ends up hurting the poor. These programs become so massive they need to be paid for using debt which eventually leads to inflation when the Central Bank is forced to print currency to service and buy up that debt. This resulting inflation hurts the poor because they have to pay higher food and energy prices.

And if the only example you had was America, and you knew nothing about the rest of the world - which is basically the problem - then you might buy that bullshit. But on the other hand, if you were to look just about anywhere else and see that they have higher taxes, much more generous social safety programs, and yet don't have high inflation, don't have a currency which is falling apart (like the US$ is) and se that their social safety programs have vastly reduced poverty, you'd just laugh. Where are the slums in Germany to match what the US has? Where is the massive poverty in Scandinavia caused by their generous social programs which help the poor?

There are probably more people living in genuine slums in the United States than in all the countries of the western world combined. And you think this is the truly excellent result of not being too generous with social programs?

Edited July 29, 2011 by Scotty

[Scotty]

No, but the "social programs" (including unfunded pharma) are the biggest problem going forward, particularly Medicare.

Your miserly social programs are not the problem. Your low taxes to fund them are the problem.

Entitlements must be curtailed to fix the imbalance.

Because, as miserly as your social programs are, America is a third world country which can't afford such programs for the poor. Every other western nation can afford them, can afford far better than the ones you have, but YOU can't afford them. Because... uh... why again?

So your solution is to just let the poor die. Let them die from lack of medical care. Let them freeze to death in the dark in winter. Let their children starve. It's not like it's your problem.

[Bonam]

Combine that with the cost of an aging population, and its really hard to see any scenario where spending is reduced significantly. More revenue is required no matter what. My guess is youre going to see move to legitimize and tax some of Americas huge underground economy... things like soft drugs and prostitution, but youre also going to see big tax hikes.

Hope not. I just got a big fat raise and hope to pay low taxes on it for a while ;p

[bush_cheney2004]

....Moody's said the country's high resiliency, government financial strength and low susceptibility to risk were key to the top marks.

Sure... it was also Moody's that downgraded Canada's rating in the 1990's, going into the "abyss" before taking any action. The "Canadian peso" was born and the scramble was on, just as it is today for the Americans. Why hold the USA to a different standard?

canadian peso

Slang for the Canadian dollar during the nineties when it was substantially devalued relative to the American dollar. The Mexican peso was also substantially reduced in value during this time, hence the connection. The phrase is less commonly heard in recent times, as the Canadian and American currencies have been nearly at par.

Example: How much is that in Canadian Pesos?

[bush_cheney2004]

Your miserly social programs are not the problem. Your low taxes to fund them are the problem.

The US spends more per capita on such programs than does Canada...hardly miserly. That includes education and health care.

Because, as miserly as your social programs are, America is a third world country which can't afford such programs for the poor. Every other western nation can afford them, can afford far better than the ones you have, but YOU can't afford them. Because... uh... why again?

Many other nations cannot afford them....starting with Greece.

So your solution is to just let the poor die. Let them die from lack of medical care. Let them freeze to death in the dark in winter. Let their children starve. It's not like it's your problem.

Yep...just as they do in Canada.

[Shady]

Whose plan was that, Shady, there have been serveral proposed. One of the reasons I ask is the age of 50 being cut off point, I have not heard that. Or maybe you have a link.....thanks.

It's all in the Ryan plan.

[Shady]

Because, as miserly as your social programs are, America is a third world country which can't afford such programs for the poor.

The majority of the budget is spent on programs for the poor. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

[Bitsy]

It's all in the Ryan plan.

Try again..........

His proposal would only affect people younger than 55, with those 55 and older continuing to receive Medicare benefits under the existing system, Ryan said.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3308

[pinko]

Sure... it was also Moody's that downgraded Canada's rating in the 1990's, going into the "abyss" before taking any action. The "Canadian peso" was born and the scramble was on, just as it is today for the Americans. Why hold the USA to a different standard?

canadian peso

Slang for the Canadian dollar during the nineties when it was substantially devalued relative to the American dollar. The Mexican peso was also substantially reduced in value during this time, hence the connection. The phrase is less commonly heard in recent times, as the Canadian and American currencies have been nearly at par.

Example: How much is that in Canadian Pesos?

The main difference now is that Canada is a nation with reasonable prospects ahead whereas the USA is a nation in decline run by a group of plutocrats. Your empire is in the process of collapse.

Edited July 29, 2011 by pinko

[bush_cheney2004]

The main difference now is that Canada is a nation with reasonable prospects ahead whereas the USA is a nation in decline run by a group of plutocrats. Your empire is in the process of collapse.

That's fine.....Canada has never had an "empire"...it was/is part of another. 'Tis better to have had.....than never at all.

[Scotty]

The majority of the budget is spent on programs for the poor. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

No, in fact it's not.

[Scotty]

The US spends more per capita on such programs than does Canada...hardly miserly. That includes education and health care.

Got a cite for that, Mr. Scrooge?

Many other nations cannot afford them....starting with Greece.

Is that how high you're setting the bar? Greece?

Greece is in trouble in large part because so many of its citizens avoid paying taxes, btw.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Scotty

[bush_cheney2004]

Got a cite for that, Mr. Scrooge?

Sure...but you're ignoring your own throbbing contradiction....the US has an ongoing budget problem largely because it is not miserly.

Health care

K-12 Education (2010)

Education / Libraries (2001)

Is that how high you're setting the bar? Greece?

Greece is in trouble in large part because so many of its citizens avoid paying taxes, btw.

You said Western nations.....clearly you were immediately wrong.

[dre]

Its odd that congress would even mess with this stuff. Do they think people are stupid?

The current level of spending is the result of their own votes. By passing legislation they are essentially ordering the government to spend money, and then trying to make that spending impossible. Congress controls the purse strings. If they dont want to spend money, they should stop signing legislation that directs spending.

[Bitsy]

The current level of spending is the result of their own votes. By passing legislation they are essentially ordering the government to spend money, and then trying to make that spending impossible.

Yep, this is their debt that they now are refusing to pay :angry:

[Guest American Woman]

Yep, this is their debt that they now are refusing to pay :angry:

What have they refused to pay to date?

[Scotty]

Sure...but you're ignoring your own throbbing contradiction....the US has an ongoing budget problem largely because it is not miserly.

The US has a budget problem because it wants to have its cake and eat it too. It has some crappy social programs, a humongous military, and people who don't want to pay taxes. Your idiot Republicans reduced taxes year after year while not reducing spending.

Health care

K-12 Education (2010)

Education / Libraries (2001)

Sorry, I thought I made myself clear. I asked for the spending on entitlement programs. What the US spends on libraries is irrelevant. What the US spends, overall, on health care is irrelevant. I want to know what the United States government spends on health care as compared to what Germany or Sweden or Finland or those other modern countries spend on health care. I want to know about what the United States government spends per person on pensions for its seniors as compared to what modern nations spend for pensions for their seniors. I want to know what the United States government spends on behalf of its poor, it's disabled, etc. etc. Those are the entitlement programs I'm talking about. What most other nations call the social safety system.

Even the spending on education is rather beside the point since the cite you used includes all spending, including that spent privately on private and religious schools, that spent by the states, cities, etc.

You said Western nations.....clearly you were immediately wrong.

What I said was that every western nation is more generous with its poor, its disabled and its elderly than America is. Then you said Greece can't afford theirs. Again, what exactly is the relevance of that? Because Greece is screwed up and can't afford its extremely generous social system means the United States can't afford its miserly system?

Edited July 29, 2011 by Scotty

[jacee]

Sure...but you're ignoring your own throbbing contradiction....the US has an ongoing budget problem largely because it is not miserly.

Health care

K-12 Education (2010)

Education / Libraries (2001)

You said Western nations.....clearly you were immediately wrong.

Interesting data but it wasn't clear whether that was all public money or private too?

[Bitsy]

What have they refused to pay to date?

I am sorry that I did not make myself clear to you. All debts have been paid but after 8/2/11 there will be a process of prioritizing which debt payments will be honored unless Congress can pass a bill that Obama will sign to raise the debt limit so our obligations can be met. However, I am sure you are aware of that. I guess I was too nuanced.

[maple_leafs182]

Are you seriously suggesting that our social programs are the reason we have this deficit? Because if you are, let me remind you of two unfunded wars, two rounds of unfunded tax cuts, and an unfunded prescription give away to the pharmaceutical companies.

The social programs are a big problem, social security is nothing but a ponzi scheme, it can't work. As for the wars, they should end them, they should also end the war on drugs and get rid of the DEA. There are many areas that need to be cut, I would suggest getting rid of the CIA as well, the CIA is nothing but a terrorist organization.

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg, I guess you did not see the quote marks ("), indicating that I quoted someone else.

That would explain the fact that you also failed to see the humour in my post.

Let up a little and smile! Will do you good.

I got the joke. I saw all the humor...how do you know that I don't sit here at the keys with a big grin - I laugh a lot when I am posting - mostly at myself...

[Oleg Bach]

That's fine.....Canada has never had an "empire"...it was/is part of another. 'Tis better to have had.....than never at all.

The world is Canada's empire..why do you think everything is still in one piece. We are always understated and aways mining - mostly under mining - you just don't notice cos we are real good at what we do. As you go into a tizzy regarding your economic fantacies..we sit firm and strong, Once China comes calling you will need our help. There is an offer of protection that we un here in the Northern Kingdom grant you - that once serious trouble sets in you can merge with Canada - you are all welcome other than your Mexican invaders - they can stay there.

[Guest American Woman]

I am sorry that I did not make myself clear to you. All debts have been paid but after 8/2/11 there will be a process of prioritizing which debt payments will be honored unless Congress can pass a bill that Obama will sign to raise the debt limit so our obligations can be met. However, I am sure you are aware of that. I guess I was too nuanced.

you: this is their debt that they now are refusing to pay

me: What have they refused to pay to date?

you: All debts have been paid

So you are apparently seeing into the future and making a worst-case scenario judgement and stating it as fact ............ Which is far different from "too nuanced."

[eyeball]

Why hold the USA to a different standard?

You should have known better.