August1991 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 English-Canada media (Toronto-based) makes this a big issue. But is being a Toronto police officer a dangerous job? (They choose the job and get paid for the risk.) Well, two Toronto policer officers died in the line of duty in the past 10 years. Link. How many Canadian soldiers died in Afghanistan? Or how about construction workers? Fourteen construction workers died as a result of traumatic injuries in Ontario as of early November 2007 recent Ontario Ministry of Labour statistics reveal. LinkOr how about mining deaths? IMV, it is a tragedy if anyone dies in their 30s. But in this thread, that's not the question. I think we should compensate risk appropriately, and we should give our sympathy intelligently. ---- I think we overpay police officers and underpay miners and soldiers for the risk they assume. Why? Police officers are unionized workers with access to the public trough. Miners and soldiers don't have such status. Last point: Miners, soldiers and policemen and firemen are usually men. When you see statistics about wages between women and men, claiming that women earn less than men: Think about risk. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 English-Canada media (Toronto-based) makes this a big issue. But is being a Toronto police officer a dangerous job? (They choose the job and get paid for the risk.) Well, two Toronto policer officers died in the line of duty in the past 10 years. Link. How many Canadian soldiers died in Afghanistan? Or how about construction workers? Link Or how about mining deaths? IMV, it is a tragedy if anyone dies in their 30s. But in this thread, that's not the question. I think we should compensate risk appropriately, and we should give our sympathy intelligently. ---- I think we overpay police officers and underpay miners and soldiers for the risk they assume. Why? Police officers are unionized workers with access to the public trough. Miners and soldiers don't have such status. Last point: Miners, soldiers and policemen and firemen are usually men. When you see statistics about wages between women and men, claiming that women earn less than men: Think about risk. Miners are usually unionized, I think, in Canada anyway. I think that the police profession has benefited from a long tradition of being portrayed positively in popular culture. For some reason, the right wing identifies with them and doesn't recognize that their unions are as bad as any. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bjre Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Here is where your tax dollars go.And so many cops have time to do this means what?How much percentage of their works are really necessary?I guess most part of their time are using in abusing their power. Edited January 19, 2011 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Here is where your tax dollars go.. They are off duty and unpaid to attend. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bjre Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Is there anything not normal happened when so many cops are not in their work? Edited January 19, 2011 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
bjre Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 They are off duty and unpaid to attend. I don't think you have investigated it in so short time. Even you give out proof, I don't trust it no matter where it come from. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
GostHacked Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Miners are usually unionized, I think, in Canada anyway. I think that the police profession has benefited from a long tradition of being portrayed positively in popular culture. For some reason, the right wing identifies with them and doesn't recognize that their unions are as bad as any. There are unions at both of the mining conglomerates in Sudbury. They get paid very very well. This is why not many suffered when the workers at INCO went on strike for almost a year. During that time, Sudbury saw one of the largest housing booms ever. Quote
M.Dancer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 I don't think you have investigated it in so short time. Even you give out proof, I don't trust it no matter where it come from. CHINA WIN!!! Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Michael Hardner Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 They are off duty and unpaid to attend. Can I have a link for that ? Not that I don't believe you but I could use it elsewhere... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
M.Dancer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Can I have a link for that ? Not that I don't believe you but I could use it elsewhere... No but I know some cops who have told me this. While some forces may pay for the buses, they are doing it out of respect, not for the opportunity to march a few miles in the rain. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Shwa Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 English-Canada media (Toronto-based) makes this a big issue. But is being a Toronto police officer a dangerous job? (They choose the job and get paid for the risk.) Well, two Toronto policer officers died in the line of duty in the past 10 years. Link. How many Canadian soldiers died in Afghanistan? Or how about construction workers? Link Or how about mining deaths? IMV, it is a tragedy if anyone dies in their 30s. But in this thread, that's not the question. I think we should compensate risk appropriately, and we should give our sympathy intelligently. ---- I think we overpay police officers and underpay miners and soldiers for the risk they assume. Why? Police officers are unionized workers with access to the public trough. Miners and soldiers don't have such status. Last point: Miners, soldiers and policemen and firemen are usually men. When you see statistics about wages between women and men, claiming that women earn less than men: Think about risk. The risk to the public is far greater when police are at risk that either miners or soldiers. Therefore we compensate them more, not because of the risk they take, but because of the risks at stake for us. Quote
Black Dog Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 The risk to the public is far greater when police are at risk that either miners or soldiers. Therefore we compensate them more, not because of the risk they take, but because of the risks at stake for us. I think the "thin blue line" notion has been oversold. If the risk to cops is relatively speaking, small, then so to is the risk to the average person IMO. Personally I found the whole official spectacle of the funeral a bit disturbing. Quote
guyser Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Personally I found the whole official spectacle of the funeral a bit disturbing. I didnt have much problem with it for the most part. Perks are part of every job . Pull all 5000 cops MVR's and you might find 100 tickets...but thats a perk one can live with. What I found bothersome was two aspects of it.... 1) Hwy 404 on ramps were shut down almost a half hour before the procession left. Hwy 404 was closed from Hwy7 south. So , imagine you are making an appt for say 10:30 at Yonge and York Mills....and you are sitting. Why couldnt they have a rolling one like normal? The reason? Cuz they are cops. I assure you no permit was required like for you or i. 2) What bothers me most is not the pomp and circumstance of this week, but the blantant use of the "get outta jail" card that ALL cops seem to have. Drive drunk (and cops are the worst group for this)...no problem if you get home. No problem if ya dont. They position themselves above the law.....and my oh my....look who is the head of the Police Union . Yea...the Police Union President ....not a criminal per se...cuz he is a cop and daddy was Chief at one time. I can say with some certainty, McCromack was a crooked crooked cop made rich by the Entertainment district. Edited January 20, 2011 by guyser Quote
M.Dancer Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 I think the "thin blue line" notion has been oversold. If the risk to cops is relatively speaking, small, then so to is the risk to the average person IMO. Personally I found the whole official spectacle of the funeral a bit disturbing. 1) They get injured far more often than they get killed. Relatively minor injuries are common. The display had a lot to do with his rank, and his future. Sgt after 11 years shows he was on the ball and was climbing the ranks... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Shwa Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 I think the "thin blue line" notion has been oversold. If the risk to cops is relatively speaking, small, then so to is the risk to the average person IMO. Personally I found the whole official spectacle of the funeral a bit disturbing. The risk to cops is a different kind of risk though. Miners and even firefighters do not have to deal with the risk to public order that police have to deal with and that is the greatest risk of them all. And since they symbolize the order and stability we wish for our society, it only makes sense that their ceremonial displays are orderly and stable as well. There is a lot of messaging going on with a cop funeral, obviously. So long as that message is not oversold, then I am all for it. Quote
guyser Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 There is a lot of messaging going on with a cop funeral, obviously. So long as that message is not oversold, then I am all for it. The previous cop funeral in Ont was a result of a vehicle accident, the cop was at fault.... Oversold methinks Quote
Black Dog Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 1) They get injured far more often than they get killed. Relatively minor injuries are common. FWIW, I don't dispute its a shitty and kinda dangerous job, but I also don't think they're out there every day risking their lives and all that guff. The display had a lot to do with his rank, and his future. Sgt after 11 years shows he was on the ball and was climbing the ranks... I think the display would have taken place regardless. This guy puts it better than I could. I do not understand why the police as an organization (and certainly not just in Toronto) insist on transforming a deeply human tragedy into a show of force and a media circus. Quote
Shwa Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 The previous cop funeral in Ont was a result of a vehicle accident, the cop was at fault.... Oversold methinks Good point. But a show of force and solidarity is always a good message to put out to the public. In the case here, it was quite the ceremony and the outpouring of support has been rather tremendous, so it will be far more memorable and far more valuable a vehicle for those types of messages. It might be oversold for us, but still saleable for a good portion of the population I think. Quote
Shwa Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 FWIW, I don't dispute its a shitty and kinda dangerous job, but I also don't think they're out there every day risking their lives and all that guff. I think the display would have taken place regardless. This guy puts it better than I could. "I do not understand why the police as an organization (and certainly not just in Toronto) insist on transforming a deeply human tragedy into a show of force and a media circus." Show of force is the message, media circus is just the delivery mechanism. Quote
guyser Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 But a show of force and solidarity is always a good message to put out to the public. We al;ready had one, it was called the G20. Now there was a force , a bad one, a force none the less. And thats my sticky point. All the cops can have their perks, no tickets, the huge payouts etc, but for 80 TO Police officers who defied Cheif Blair and did not wear a badge nor name tags is where we lose faith. No accountablity except unto themselves. All 80 should have been fired on the spot. Quote
eyeball Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 Show of force is the message, media circus is just the delivery mechanism. If people were really listening the other day they may have caught what was apparently how Ryan Russell would have put it, "it is what it is, let it be". I'm really thankful that no one has apparently used his tragedy as a delivery mechanism for more crackin' down and gettin' mean. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Shwa Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 We al;ready had one, it was called the G20. Now there was a force , a bad one, a force none the less. And thats my sticky point. All the cops can have their perks, no tickets, the huge payouts etc, but for 80 TO Police officers who defied Cheif Blair and did not wear a badge nor name tags is where we lose faith. No accountablity except unto themselves. All 80 should have been fired on the spot. Oh I agree, and public perception is very important on this too. All those cops beating up all those G20 window smashing, cop car burning troublemakers, we were all kept safe from them. The 'force' against chaos worked. Quote
Shwa Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 I'm really thankful that no one has apparently used his tragedy as a delivery mechanism for more crackin' down and gettin' mean. The SUI would clear them anyways. That is, if anyone was to find out in the first place. Quote
kimmy Posted January 21, 2011 Report Posted January 21, 2011 I think we overpay police officers and underpay miners and soldiers for the risk they assume. Why? Police officers are unionized workers with access to the public trough. Miners and soldiers don't have such status. I don't see that risk is a factor in the salary. I believe that police officers are well paid because we want to attract a better grade of employee to that job than one might require in mining or the military. We have high expectations of our police officers... expectations they've been failing to meet more often than we should accept. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
August1991 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) I don't see that risk is a factor in the salary.I believe that police officers are well paid because we want to attract a better grade of employee to that job than one might require in mining or the military. We have high expectations of our police officers... expectations they've been failing to meet more often than we should accept. Look, every employer wants to attract a "better grade of employee".As to risk Kimmy, would you choose a dream job as a SciFi movie critic that paid $100,000 annually for life with absolute job security or the same job that paid $101,000 annually with the possibility of getting layed off next year? If I changed the risky example to $150,000 per year, would you switch? What's your "risk premium"? Real estate agents earn more on average than librarians if only because librarians get money in their bank account every second Friday. Real estate agents don't. IOW, risk has a price. In this thread, I simply argued that the risk premium paid to municipal police officers is greater than the risk premium paid to soldiers or mine workers. Why? Police officers have access to tax money through a union. (IMV, that's a recipe for disaster.) ---- Over 150 Canadian soldiers have died in Afghanistan in the past 10 years. In the same time, 2 Toronto police officers died. Which job is more dangerous? IMV, death or physical injury on the job is the most accurate measure of risk. At least 1,500 Canadian men and women have been wounded in Afghanistan; the exact number is unknown because the Department of National Defence keeps it a secret. Toronto StarHow many police officers in Toronto lost a limb in the line of duty (while working) in the past 10 years? ----- I understand and have no objection to "police solidarity" or "military solidarity". The only way people (usually men) will accept these risks is if they know that they are not alone. Edited January 21, 2011 by August1991 Quote
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