Your predictions on how we will deal with the coming health care crisi

guyser · January 19, 2011

provides a remedy by contracting with American for-profit hospitals/clinics That is just whacked given the rambling criticisms of "privatized healthcare".

Actually it isnt whacked , but very smart.

The excess capacity that US hospitals have is being sold off . They have to pay their bills too. Its smart because as population densities change across this country we are not saddled with the cost of bricks and mortar upkeep.

Makes smaert business sense.

guyser · January 19, 2011

It doesn't matter if it's abortions, radiology, neonatal care, brain surgery, or imaging....the system you are defending has not and cannot meet the needs of all Canadians in a timely or efficient manner. That's why it is called "wait time".

The way provinces deal with the "crisis" today is to use external services and facilities.

So then how does one explain the same "wait times" or "inefficiencies " present in American health services? And in some cases it can be worse, some better?

Edited January 19, 2011 by guyser

M.Dancer · January 19, 2011

You certainly like going off on a tangent. Here is some information for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Morgentaler

By the way doctors in any province may opt out of doing abortions. One of my son's specialties is in that particular field of medicine. Try to present a more cogent position.

That being said, to repeat BC's statement, if you seek a third trimester abortion in Quebec, you will be turned away. You have to go to the US.

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2011

Actually it isnt whacked , but very smart.

It is very smart fiscally, but it's a disaster politically, and the 90's style Chretien Cuts haven't even started yet.

...but even as American facilities are so utilized, "private, American style health care sucks!"...LOL!

eyeball · January 19, 2011

No it's not the "same". You only work part of the day (typically 8 hours), the rest is yours to do with as you please. Not working just sounds boring anyway. What the heck would you do, sit around all day reminiscing about old times in your old age? I'd much rather keep working, but then, that's cause I work in a field I enjoy.

Raising the retirement age is an utterly inevitable thing as life expectancy continues to increase.

I hear you, and I love my job too.

I'm still in relatively good shape, the knees and back ain't what they used to be but I'm up on the bridge a lot more than I am on deck now so... If anything is going to slow me down it'll likely be this defective heart valve I was born with.

How long till we get to this technological singularity thingy of yours so I can download my mind into my new iridium-titanium body, 40 years or so? Is it just me or does it seem this singularity is always just far enough ahead in time to be just at or beyond the bounds of one's reach?

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2011

So then how does one explain the same "wait times" or "inefficiencies " present in American health services? And in some cases it can be worse, some better?

There is no expectation or obligation for universal access or single payer in the American system. Care is rationed by the ability to pay. Do you understand the political difference?

pinko · January 19, 2011

That being said, to repeat BC's statement, if you seek a third trimester abortion in Quebec, you will be turned away. You have to go to the US.

You ignorance of the obligations in Canada is duly noted and your premise is just plain silly. Abortions are available in each province and while some are more restrictive than others Canada remains more open to providing choice for women. There is plenty of literature available on the internet and I would suggest you inform yourself before you head down the path of obfuscation you have constructed. Unlike the many restrictions in the states Canada by and large respects a woman's freedom of choice.

Edited January 19, 2011 by pinko

guyser · January 19, 2011

...but even as American facilities are so utilized, "private, American style health care sucks!"...LOL!

I have never said nor implied that, anywhere anyhow.

guyser · January 19, 2011

but it's a disaster politically, .

Except it isnt .

guyser · January 19, 2011

There is no expectation or obligation for universal access or single payer in the American system. Care is rationed by the ability to pay. Do you understand the political difference?

Of course I understand the difference.

However, slow receival times at hospitals, lack of timely Dr appts, denial of service by carriers since it is rationed....and thats true for many who pay for health insurance.

Edited January 19, 2011 by guyser

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2011

I have never said nor implied that, anywhere anyhow.

Lighten up...you know exactly what I was referring to. The American "private care bogeyman"....and it dovetails quite well with the pending doom predicted by this thread, because it is already happening.

guyser · January 19, 2011

you know exactly what I was referring to. The American "private care bogeyman"....and it dovetails quite well with the pending doom predicted by this thread, because it is already happening.

There are concerns with our system, but certainly not doom, and it isnt "already happening" though it would seem some might want to view it that way.

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2011

Of course I understand the difference.

Amen.

However, slow receival times at hospitals, lack of timely Dr appts, denial of service by carriers since it is rationed....and thats true for many who pay for health insurance.

Correct...but it is also potentialy true in Canada's provinces for the entire population except for those seeking true love elsewhere, depending on what ails you and/or where you live. Seniors arguably have it better in the USA because there is a single payer and facilities are more numerous (excess capacity).

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2011

There are concerns with our system, but certainly not doom, and it isnt "already happening" though it would seem some might want to view it that way.

I'm glad you mentioned this angle, because that is exactly the same kind of thinking. Even the mere threat to CHA perceptions (let alone the reality) are taboo, so ingrained is the faith of this "third rail" to Canadian politics.

Just continuing to say that it "sucks in the USA more" won't be good enough after a while.

Edited January 19, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

dre · January 19, 2011

Lame... still focusing on the Public VS PRivate RED HERRING I see.

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2011

Lame... still focusing on the Public VS PRivate RED HERRING I see.

Sorry...the brain transplant queue is full this week in India.

pinko · January 19, 2011

Sorry...the brain transplant queue is full this week in India.

Here is one of your fellow religious fanatics. This clown shot doctors in Vancouver and Ontario as well as here in Winnipeg. There are many of these lunatics floating out there inflicting their views through the barrel of a gun in your gun crazed society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Charles_Kopp

see http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/abortioninfo/history.shtml

Edited January 19, 2011 by pinko

M.Dancer · January 19, 2011

Here is one of your fellow religious fanatics. This clown shot doctors in Vancouver and Ontario as well as here in Winnipeg. There are many of these lunatics floating out there inflicting there views through the barrel of a gun in your gun crazed society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Charles_Kopp

see http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/abortioninfo/history.shtml

And that is some how germane to what exactly?

pinko · January 19, 2011

And that is some how germane to what exactly?

To the detour you created a number of posts back. I am glad you now acknowledge it has absolutely nothing to do with Canada's heathcare system. It does however relate to the nature of the conditions in the country you reside in.

guyser · January 19, 2011

I'm glad you mentioned this angle, because that is exactly the same kind of thinking. Even the mere threat to CHA perceptions (let alone the reality) are taboo, so ingrained is the faith of this "third rail" to Canadian politics.

Perceptions are skewed in this country in part because of mores of the times. Everyone wants to be first at all times and when they aren't (aka in triage type scenarios) they bitch. Bitching gets the ear, thus the perception gets skewed.The adage about poor service and everyone hearing it vs good service and no one comments (or something like that) fits.

Most people, and apparantly not August1991, feel that the system works and works well, but there also exists a denial of the inherent problems in the system.

Just continuing to say that it "sucks in the USA more" won't be good enough after a while.

Not that I nor anyone of consequence on this board has done so.......

M.Dancer · January 19, 2011

To the detour you created a number of posts back. I am glad you now acknowledge it has absolutely nothing to do with Canada's heathcare system. It does however relate to the nature of the conditions in the country you reside in.

I created a detour? Plese show me my posts about anti abortion extremists...

PIK · January 19, 2011

Maybe since we spend more money on immigrant services, then we do health care, he could say enough with the goldplated handshakes for new people and since I have heard that our debt is about the same we have spent on biligualism, we could get some control on that , since in the beginning it was just to be that a person could be served in french for goverment services, not having to speak french to get a good job in this country.The money is there people ,we just need to spend it properly and get off this idea ,that we have to bend over for the almighty immigrant.

pinko · January 19, 2011

Maybe since we spend more money on immigrant services, then we do health care, he could say enough with the goldplated handshakes for new people and since I have heard that our debt is about the same we have spent on biligualism, we could get some control on that , since in the beginning it was just to be that a person could be served in french for goverment services, not having to speak french to get a good job in this country.The money is there people ,we just need to spend it properly and get off this idea ,that we have to bend over for the almighty immigrant.

Could you be one of those Reform Party types? By the way at one point in time your ancestors were immigrants.