Guest American Woman Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) I notice many of those rights you trumpet have been lost during the Bush/Cheney era and even under Obama continue. I was referring more to the hundreds of millions being advocated for Khadr, fighting against Canada, vs. the 60k that the troops, fighting for Canada, get after they have been dismembered, or mentally changed forever..... But it's putting it mildly to say I wasn't crazy about Bush/Cheney, and approved of little they did. Can't say I'm crazy about Obama, either. But I'll take either administration in a heartbeat over the lives we'd live under al Qaeda or the Taliban. Especially as a woman. So even as we complain and criticize, I think we need to take stock of the reality of our lives and be thankful for where we live; and as I do so, I have great appreciation for our troops, past, present, and future. Edited January 18, 2011 by American Woman Quote
Shady Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 I notice many of those rights you trumpet have been lost during the Bush/Cheney era and even under Obama continue. Complete nonsense. Quote
eyeball Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) A payout of that magitude would certainly be the icing on the cake, hundreds of millions for trying to TAKE our own freedoms away, I mean god forbid we stamp on this little M....f...r freedoms and rights while trying to prserve our own. while one of our own, gets a payout on average of 60 k after they have been dismembered, or mentally changed forever trying to stamp out everything these guys stand for.... I'm sure everyone can see the irony in the whole situation... Not when you characterize the basis for Khadr's settlement as being a reward for trying to take away our freedoms. That's just plain silly. It'll be based on very similar reasons to the one's that justified Maher Arar's settlement. A payout of that size would have more and more Canadian terrorist lined up around the block, trying to get a chance at their payout....I think you would also see the ROE's changed up alittle, the first Terrorist that even mumble something in english would recieve 2 to the chest one to the head.....just out of priciple.... A payout that size should have more and more Canadians asking just WTF (w=why) our government isn't living up to it's responsibility not to mention the law when it comes to protecting Canadian's legal and human rights. Not saying it has not happened before denis lortea was one of them, but they are few and far between. I think it's because we seen just how bad it can get in the shit holes around the world, and in comparison, we have it pretty good.... By the very same token it should be just as easy to see why people from or with family or cultural ties to places where it is as bad as it can get do go postal. Radicalization or galvanization doesn't always have to be rooted in some national, cultural or religious basis. I think there is so much moral, ethical and cognitive dissonance in the world right now that it's starting to affect people in the way microwave radiation is said to affect bees or something. It's driving people nuts everywhere. Edited January 18, 2011 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 I was referring more to the hundreds of millions being advocated for Khadr, fighting against Canada No, being advocated for Khadr as compensation for the abuse of his human rights. The high dollar amount is to send the message to our government that it cannot continue to shit on Canadians human rights with impunity. Why so high a payout? We ratchet-up penalties that are awarded against corporate perpetrators when they continue to flaunt the law. When the penalties finally reach a point that they impact shareholders of such corporations they usually take action to ensure the corporation cleans up its act. Citizens like shareholders eventually need to take responsibility and accept their liability too. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
M.Dancer Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 No, being advocated for Khadr as compensation for the abuse of his human rights. The high dollar amount is to send the message to our government that it cannot continue to shit on Canadians human rights with impunity. Why so high a payout? We ratchet-up penalties that are awarded against corporate perpetrators when they continue to flaunt the law. When the penalties finally reach a point that they impact shareholders of such corporations they usually take action to ensure the corporation cleans up its act. Citizens like shareholders eventually need to take responsibility and accept their liability too. His only right that was violated was a technicallity...sharing with our allies the information that CSIS obtained. That info on the request of the government was not used in court. So his so called rights being violated are moot. If he ever gets a dime from us I will be on the muslim boards suggesting that it was not compensation he received, but a payout for being an american informer. Muslims like to belkieve conspiracy theories....if that line is swallowed, his life won't be worth a dime, which happens to be the amount of compensation he deserves. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Jack Weber Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) His only right that was violated was a technicallity...sharing with our allies the information that CSIS obtained. That info on the request of the government was not used in court. So his so called rights being violated are moot. If he ever gets a dime from us I will be on the muslim boards suggesting that it was not compensation he received, but a payout for being an american informer. Muslims like to belkieve conspiracy theories....if that line is swallowed, his life won't be worth a dime, which happens to be the amount of compensation he deserves. Are you suggesting extrajudicial killings can come in handy sometimes to eliminate some of the scumbag population? Edited January 18, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
M.Dancer Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Are you sugesting extrajudicial killings can come in handy sometimes to eliminate some of the scumbag population? I prefer judicial means....unfortunately, we don't have the means here for now. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Jack Weber Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 I prefer judicial means....unfortunately, we don't have the means here for now. The death penalty is too nice and clean for scum like this... Hard labour on Hans Island breaking rocks for 25 to 30 years might be OK? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
eyeball Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 His only right that was violated was a technicallity... Now where have I heard you mock the law this way before...oh yeah..it's not RAPE rape. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Battletoads Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 This is what happens when you lets members of radicals religions, in this case Islam, become citizens. Shall we give three cheers for the politically correct morons who opened of the floodgates to these types? Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
eyeball Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 This is what happens when you lets members of radicals religions, in this case Islam, become citizens. No, this is what happens when you immorally and criminally interfere in regions where radical sects could germinate, grow and thrive on exactly that type of outsider interference. Shall we give three cheers for the politically correct morons who opened of the floodgates to these types? Not so fast there, don't forget a lot of these floodgates were opened up years and years ago back when we or at least our governments and proxies were often also sowing the seeds of our own misfortune. You're cheering the wrong people and you should actually be booing. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 ...You're cheering the wrong people and you should actually be booing. Sure...just as soon as you (and your government) gives British Columbia back to the "radical sects" tired of "outside interference". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
M.Dancer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Now where have I heard you mock the law this way before...oh yeah..it's not RAPE rape. I'm sorry Cabinboy...the wikilinks thread is two doors to your left. Edited January 19, 2011 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Battletoads Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 No, this is what happens when you immorally and criminally interfere in regions where radical sects could germinate, grow and thrive on exactly that type of outsider interference. Not so fast there, don't forget a lot of these floodgates were opened up years and years ago back when we or at least our governments and proxies were often also sowing the seeds of our own misfortune. You're cheering the wrong people and you should actually be booing. I don't see how that changes anything, I still think we shouldn't be letting extremist into the country. and when it comes down to it most of these groups grievances can be traced back to the America's idiot 'foreign piolicy' over the last 70 years. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Army Guy Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Well, just to place things in perspective, the notion that we are fighting to "preserve...our freedoms" is an opinion, not an established fact. An opinion, well those aircraft that crashed into US infra struture on 9/11 is not opinion but fact, killing not only US citizens but Canadians as well, But hey who cares about those 20 plus Canadian citizens , they lived and worked in America, i even heard them called citizens of convince, not worthy of any effort by our country....Another fact How many of our freedoms do you really think we would be enjoying now, if we decided to let them take the fight to us in North America.....that we decided to fight this conflict in our neiborhoods.... Really and yet Omar and his family, now they are the real deal, they are Canadian right down to their burkas....Yes Canadians lets all stand and be champions for the Khadr rights,even a past Prime minister has stepped in and directly intervened on the fathers behalf, only to be killed later in some shoot out at a terrorist training camp.....forget that terrorist are people to....in fact their canadians...and they deserve every right and freedom we all cherish and take advantage off.... Do you really think the muslim world would be as conerned about our rights and freedoms as we are about theirs, which is really a crook of shit anyways, other than a few media outlets a few forums north Americans declaring their concerns and opinions that is were it really stops is'nt it. we finsih work go home talk over supper, print some shit on a forum and say thats it, i've done my part.....but who really listens.... who has sprung into action....so when you boil it all down nobody really gives a shit as long as it does not interfer with my pogie check, NHL, and beer store timings we are all good..... But don't take my word for it vist some of these radical muslim sites, see for your self, what they have envisioned for you and your family.....then ask yourself do they or should they be protected under our rights and freedoms....and if so how far or what freedoms and rights do we give up to give them theirs. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Not when you characterize the basis for Khadr's settlement as being a reward for trying to take away our freedoms. That's just plain silly. It'll be based on very similar reasons to the one's that justified Maher Arar's settlement. Apples and oranges, Maher was not a proven terrorist, was he, nor was Omar sent from Canada to another country to be questioned... How much more evidence do you need to convince you Omar was a terrorist, part of an organization that goal is death to all infidels....thats me and you....Yes Canada did break some minor rules like sharing info with the US , but hey that is what allied countries do....Tortured my ass....Canadian soldier live in far worse conditions and get squat for compensation.... A payout that size should have more and more Canadians asking just WTF (w=why) our government isn't living up to it's responsibility not to mention the law when it comes to protecting Canadian's legal and human rights. Like i said before since when does a criminal / terrorist rights trump mine/ your and every other tax payers...when does one individual trump the needs and security of the many..... By the very same token it should be just as easy to see why people from or with family or cultural ties to places where it is as bad as it can get do go postal.Bullshit, live as an afghanis for a year then tell me things in Canada is are as bad as some have said, that would provoke a Canadian into going postal.....Radicalization or galvanization doesn't always have to be rooted in some national, cultural or religious basis. I think there is so much moral, ethical and cognitive dissonance in the world right now that it's starting to affect people in the way microwave radiation is said to affect bees or something. It's driving people nuts everywhere. So really you think all these crazies should be protected, that those of us who have decided to live our lives under the law, which preserves the very rights and freedoms we enjoy today, that we should suspend some of them to preserve theirs... which ones are suspended you ask, what about our right to live protected/ secure , which allows us to enjoy those very freedoms and rights we have....what about my right not to live in fear, worry about bombings, terror attacks, pay out billions of tax dollars paying out for extra security to keep the crazies out....what about the cost of this conflict keeping the fight in their back yard instead of ours....many many more....becuase we want to give these crazies the same rights and freedoms as us.....bullshit....they brought this conflict into our hoems on 9/11 , they picked the fight....now they can live with it....As for the same rights and freedoms....Omar pissed on all that when he took up their cause, and took up arms against his country men and allieds....to him and all those other traitors i say screw them....lock them up or ship them back so they can die for their cause .... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 How much more evidence do you need to convince you Omar was a terrorist There is none that exists. The evidence clearly proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Omar was a child of 11 years of age when his parents began criminally indoctrinating him as a soldier/combatant/terrorist into a conflict/war/jihad. Like i said before since when does a criminal / terrorist rights trump mine/ your and every other tax payers...when does one individual trump the needs and security of the many..... What criminal? Bullshit, live as an afghanis for a year then tell me things in Canada is are as bad as some have said, that would provoke a Canadian into going postal..... From what I gather the majority of Afghans want us to leave and wished we'd never gone in the first place. If I lived in a state of occupation as Afghans do I'd probably become a freedom fighter too. So really you think all these crazies should be protected, that those of us who have decided to live our lives under the law, which preserves the very rights and freedoms we enjoy today, that we should suspend some of them to preserve theirs...which ones are suspended you ask, what about our right to live protected/ secure , which allows us to enjoy those very freedoms and rights we have....what about my right not to live in fear, worry about bombings, terror attacks, pay out billions of tax dollars paying out for extra security to keep the crazies out....what about the cost of this conflict keeping the fight in their back yard instead of ours....many many more....becuase we want to give these crazies the same rights and freedoms as us.....bullshit....they brought this conflict into our hoems on 9/11 , they picked the fight....now they can live with it.. No, they retaliated, and brought the conflict we started to us. The only way to stop it is to tone down the dissonance, come home and mind our own business. It's that simple. ..As for the same rights and freedoms....Omar pissed on all that when he took up their cause, and took up arms against his country men and allieds....to him and all those other traitors i say screw them....lock them up or ship them back so they can die for their cause .... I repeat, Omar was child who had his life stolen from him. He was indoctrinated and taught to be the way he is. That is against our laws and so long as we continue to piss on Omar, we keep pissing on our own laws, hence the dissonance thing. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
M.Dancer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 There is none that exists. You are correct. His own testimony, video evidence of him constucting bombs and forensic evidence mean nothing.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 I repeat, Omar was child who had his life stolen from him. He was indoctrinated and taught to be the way he is. That is against our laws and so long as we continue to piss on Omar, we keep pissing on our own laws, hence the dissonance thing. Our laws are fine. He was tried under US law. You seem to have your own dissonance going strong... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 You are correct. His own testimony, video evidence of him constucting bombs and forensic evidence mean nothing.... That's right...chalk it up to Stockholm syndrome I guess. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Our laws are fine. He was tried under US law. You seem to have your own dissonance going strong... US law.... Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 There is none that exists. The evidence clearly proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Omar was a child of 11 years of age when his parents began criminally indoctrinating him as a soldier/combatant/terrorist into a conflict/war/jihad. Are you kidding me, of all the evidence that has been collected and presented at his trial, that is all you gleened from it ? Aside all the evidence that Morris listed, his confesions on vidio where in fact proven true as US IED teams discovered the mines Omar and his merry band had planted...just where Omar had told them they would be...That is clear evidence of conducting terrorism activities in a combat zone....making him a terrorist and carrying out illegal activies.... And while i will agree with you, about his parents 100%, we as a nation have done nothing in regards bringing legal action...Nor do i see any in the future....which does not but a very postive light on our justice system in my opinion. From what I gather the majority of Afghans want us to leave and wished we'd never gone in the first place. If I lived in a state of occupation as Afghans do I'd probably become a freedom fighter too. Another myth, designed and spread by those that do not support our actions in Afghanistan...While true it's not hard to find Afghan that does not support the current Afghan government or having NATO troops in the country...they do not make up the majority....The fact that the Majority of AFghanistan only wants peace, and they see NATO as the vehicle that can bring that about... No, they retaliated, and brought the conflict we started to us. Really just what did the US government do to the Taliban regime , or for that matter AL Quida to have a direct attack happen sept 11....was it because of the US foreign policy, thier decadent ways, there freedoms, the way they dressed, the way they treated their women....Here is a message for them....tough shit....But maybe it's more than that does it justify killing 3000 american citizens.... i don't like the way my neibour keeps his lawn, but i don't drive a small plane into is house killing half his family..... The only way to stop it is to tone down the dissonance, come home and mind our own business. It's that simple. No the only way is to stand up for our rights and freedoms, and tell this scumbags terror is wrong and we will hunt you done and destroy you....it's that simple....sometimes we all can't sit around the camp fire and sing kumbuy yah....sometimes you need to stand up to these scumbags and beat them with a stick... Quote ..As for the same rights and freedoms....Omar pissed on all that when he took up their cause, and took up arms against his country men and allieds....to him and all those other traitors i say screw them....lock them up or ship them back so they can die for their cause .... I repeat, Omar was child who had his life stolen from him. He was indoctrinated and taught to be the way he is. That is against our laws and so long as we continue to piss on Omar, we keep pissing on our own laws, hence the dissonance thing. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 Are you kidding me, of all the evidence that has been collected and presented at his trial, that is all you gleened from it ? Aside all the evidence that Morris listed, his confesions on vidio where in fact proven true as US IED teams discovered the mines Omar and his merry band had planted...just where Omar had told them they would be...That is clear evidence of conducting terrorism activities in a combat zone....making him a terrorist and carrying out illegal activies.... All of it, every last bit of it, is rendered utterly and completely moot because of his age. Do you regard kiddie porn pictures as evidence of the kid's complicity? No, of course you don't. This is no different. And while i will agree with you, about his parents 100%, we as a nation have done nothing in regards bringing legal action...Nor do i see any in the future....which does not but a very postive light on our justice system in my opinion. That's no excuse for taking out our frustration on the kid they abused. A justice system that holds children responsible for their parent's actions is a pile of crap and pretty much what I'd expect from the Taliban. Another myth, designed and spread by those that do not support our actions in Afghanistan...While true it's not hard to find Afghan that does not support the current Afghan government or having NATO troops in the country...they do not make up the majority....The fact that the Majority of AFghanistan only wants peace, and they see NATO as the vehicle that can bring that about... The majority of the human race wants peace, always has and always will. I've said many many times that if left to their own devices, that is, without us to provide the minority oxygen and a reason for their existence, the Taliban would fall flat on their faces. Really just what did the US government do to the Taliban regime , or for that matter AL Quida to have a direct attack happen sept 11....was it because of the US foreign policy, thier decadent ways, there freedoms, the way they dressed, the way they treated their women....Here is a message for them....tough shit....But maybe it's more than that does it justify killing 3000 american citizens.... Are you kidding me, of all the evidence that has been collected and presented these last ten years, that is all you gleaned from it. The justification for 9/11 was the unending interference and dysfunction the west had been visiting on the ME and surrounding region for decades. i don't like the way my neibour keeps his lawn, but i don't drive a small plane into is house killing half his family..... Let's see how you'd feel if your neighbour had replaced you as head of your household and tortured and killed your family members. In case you hadn't noticed, this is a clash of civilizations we are engaged in and our side started it. No the only way is to stand up for our rights and freedoms, and tell this scumbags terror is wrong and we will hunt you done and destroy you....it's that simple....sometimes we all can't sit around the camp fire and sing kumbuy yah....sometimes you need to stand up to these scumbags and beat them with a stick... They feel exactly the same way in so many words. ..As for the same rights and freedoms....Omar pissed on all that when he took up their cause, and took up arms against his country men and allieds....to him and all those other traitors i say screw them....lock them up or ship them back so they can die for their cause .... Omar was taken as a child, was indoctrinated and pressed into someone else's cause. We're the one's who pissed away our heritage when we took up arms and joined our allies. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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