Ford era begins in Toronto

[TimG]

Can any LRT supporters explain why an LRT is better than dedicated bus lanes?

Buses are cheaper to build and a lot more flexible.

LRT strikes me a pretentious scam designed to cater to people who think they are too good to ride on buses.

[g_bambino]

Buses are cheaper to build and a lot more flexible.

Of all the modes of public transit, busses are capable of carrying the least number of people. Plus: they get stuck in traffic.

Strike: You did say dedicated bus lanes

Edited December 2, 2010 by g_bambino

[TimG]

You did say dedicated bus lanes

Yes - take the lanes where rail was supposed to go and run buses on them. Works OK in Ottawa. They could even string overhead wires and use electric buses like in Vancouver but that would be more expensive.

Also I am more interested in a $/passenger - not the passengers/vehicle. These LRT are supposed to be a supplement to subway lines. Buses make sense to me as the cheapest way to provide that.

Edited December 2, 2010 by TimG

[Shady]

You know, they should have been building subways in the 80s...like Montreal...the one City in Canada where you really don't want to drive, and don't have to. A completely integrated suburban rail system that connects to a vast subway system that people actually take....of course, it's about 30% cheaper to travel in MTL...

Exactly. Subways are the real answer to the problem. The ignorance sorrounding this issue is astounding. I still can't believe that some people think that adding more vehicles to the roads will help alleviate traffic and travel time.

[g_bambino]

I am more interested in a $/passenger - not the passengers/vehicle. These LRT are supposed to be a supplement to subway lines. Buses make sense to me as the cheapest way to provide that.

It depends on how many people you have to service. Busses may be cheap, but they move the least number of people and require wider right-of-ways that don't fit well into dense urban areas, where the population is higher. The vast majority of the world's cities use subways and/or streetcars (whether with dedicated right-of-ways or not) in the core and busses or other surface rail in the surrounds.

[nicky10013]

No ground has broken other that the psychosis on St Clair...so no harm done...

Yeah, they've started building the Sheppard LRT. Not to mention the fact that contracts are already in place to start everything else. If they were to cancel it, lots of cancellation penalties.

[nicky10013]

No idea..

But MTL is small...far smaller than the GTA....and on an island to boot.

Pretty much. I think we also need to reckon the fact that for some reason be it political or otherwise, not only is Toronto far larger but it gets far less money. The way things generally operate is that transit systems get subsidies per ride. Ottawa and Calgary, the last I heard, got 3. Cities like New York get upwards of 5. Toronto gets 1.50.

That, and honestly, where else would there be subways? At this time I really can only foresee 2 lines. The downtown relief line - essentially another U and a line under Eglinton. However, when the Eglinton subway was literally being tunneled, Ford's buddy Mike Harris came along, cancelled everything and even had the tunnel completely filled in!

[Black Dog]

Massive jam up on the Bloor line today due to a jumper at Sherbourne. Hundreds of tousands of people late for work, but at least Blob Ford is looking out for the real transit neds of the city with his stub to nowhere.

[Black Dog]

By the way, Dnacer, there's a bit in the Star today that indicates the tunnel borning machines that were purchased for Transit City aren't big enough to did subway tunnels, so there's another sunk cost.

[nicky10013]

By the way, Dnacer, there's a bit in the Star today that indicates the tunnel borning machines that were purchased for Transit City aren't big enough to did subway tunnels, so there's another sunk cost.

I don't know the lifespan on tunnel boring machines but they purchased one, if not two, for the extension of the spadina and yonge lines.

[Black Dog]

Exactly. Subways are the real answer to the problem. The ignorance sorrounding this issue is astounding. I still can't believe that some people think that adding more vehicles to the roads will help alleviate traffic and travel time.

Ford's not promising any subways outside of the extension to Scarbourough Town Centre. That's the sum total of Ford's transit plan.

[charter.rights]

Seems Ford has already started to cause trouble. He clams he can scrap "Transit City" without the rest of Council's approval. Seems there will be people fighting against him just because they are fighting for democracy and he may not get his subway after all.

Edited December 2, 2010 by charter.rights

[Shady]

By the way, Dnacer, there's a bit in the Star today that indicates the tunnel borning machines that were purchased for Transit City aren't big enough to did subway tunnels, so there's another sunk cost.

I guess Ford should've purchased the proper boring machines. Oh right, he had nothing to do with that screw up. Your boy Miller did.

Ford's done the right thing. This project reminds me of the Big Dig in Boston. It also reminds me of the proposed project in New Jersey in which Chris Christie just axed. Sometimes good medicine tastes bad. Especially to those who are used to doing things the same old way.

[Black Dog]

Ford's done the right thing. This project reminds me of the Big Dig in Boston.

Because its a hole in the ground, right? Deep analyisis, bra.

Sometimes good medicine tastes bad. Especially to those who are used to doing things the same old way.

Great slogans. Nothing to do with any of the issues at hand, but you'd make a bad ass bumper sticker manufacturer.

[Shady]

Great slogans. Nothing to do with any of the issues at hand, but you'd make a bad ass bumper sticker manufacturer.

Thanks. But I'm still not at the level you are. So far, this is my favourite!

The War on Cars should only be just beginning.

[Oleg Bach]

These megaprojects shouldn't be able to be canceled so easily. This is why we can't move forward quickly enough. A transit authority with a mandate to confer with the public is needed to continuously plan and move forward, IMO.

We may have tumbled from the frying pan into the fire as far as what Ford might have in store. Sure he likes to brag with one hand how he controls his meager office budget in the past..and saves the "taxpayer" a few thousand bucks personally. BUT - IF he cancels contracts that will then make their way into the court system - where millions upon millions will be rewarded to rich people for doing NOTHING...then that would make Ford the super jerk and king rat.

IF THIS TAKES PLACE - all Ford will be doing is stealing tax dollars and handing them over to greedy rich lawyers and their friends. With one hand he will save you a thousand bucks - with the other hand he might just be robbing you of billions...Ford like the rest of them support the status quo..and as we see more wealth will go into the hands of that one tenth of one percent....This is the way the system is run. I smell something fishey all ready...Miller was a henchman- McGinty a henchman ..and now Ford might be the worst and most corrupt front man our established mafia might have deployed..time will tell.

[Black Dog]

We may have tumbled from the frying pan into the fire as far as what Ford might have in store. Sure he likes to brag with one hand how he controls his meager office budget in the past..and saves the "taxpayer" a few thousand bucks personally. BUT - IF he cancels contracts that will then make their way into the court system - where millions upon millions will be rewarded to rich people for doing NOTHING...then that would make Ford the super jerk and king rat.

IF THIS TAKES PLACE - all Ford will be doing is stealing tax dollars and handing them over to greedy rich lawyers and their friends. With one hand he will save you a thousand bucks - with the other hand he might just be robbing you of billions...Ford like the rest of them support the status quo..and as we see more wealth will go into the hands of that one tenth of one percent....This is the way the system is run. I smell something fishey all ready...Miller was a henchman- McGinty a henchman ..and now Ford might be the worst and most corrupt front man our established mafia might have deployed..time will tell.

Oleg is, as per usual, totally insane, but he does raise an interesting notion. "Team Ford" (I love how the mayor's watercarriers at the Sun have embraced that tag, which distances the mayor from the decison making process he likely has little input into) has an agenda on transit, one betrayed by one of his own staffers during the election, that would see the TTC neutered, gutted and, ultimately, sold off to private interests. That's certainly as plausible an explanation as any for Ford's plan, which is obviously not being driven by a desire to actually improve the TTC or Toronto's transportation infrastructure in general.

[Oleg Bach]

Being totally insane works in part for me..remember..it takes some outrages thinking to find the truth...It's like speculation on an industrial mental level..toss enough shit against the wall and some sticks...Look at our judicary..most are appointed by old lawyers that have great sway over the banks...I suppose that would be a shadow government of sorts...Rich people actually justify their action in the fact that poor people are stupid and believe their lies...works for me...or does it?

[Black Dog]

Thanks. But I'm still not at the level you are. So far, this is my favourite!

You realize that's a riff on a Ford slogan, don't you? Of course you don't.

[Shady]

This is my 2nd favourite.

It seems Ford feels he can make long-term policy by decree.

[Shady]

And this is my 3rd favourite!

The city needs better transit. Ford's tunnel to nowhere ain't it.

This would be #1, but it's a little long to fit on a bumper sticker. It's really good though.

[Oleg Bach]

JUDGE: "Don't worry my poor offended friend..this insult and breach in contract will be put straight this very day...so you say you were going to make 60 million...well I am going to award you 30 in punitive damages" Just think....all they had to do was nothing other than have a lawyer or two draft up a letter....Ford can not possibly change this system - It would have to be stated that the whole system is corrupt...Sure he can brow beat a few public employees into submission . but the big dogs don't submit as easily...

[daniel]

Ford is just playing politics. If he's as good a business man as he claims to be, he would have known well before the election campaign started all the contracts and penalties related to Transit City. But these kind of details won't get you elected. (Like Ann Coulter would say, these facts are "so boring"). So campaign on snippets that sound good. They don't have to be correct. The tough job is for his opponents the explain why he's wrong. And explaining takes longer than one sentence - election lost.

His game now is at least show he's trying to keep an election promise. Knowing full well, his subway plan won't go through, he'll eventually "admit" defeat. His supporters would forgive him this second time (remember his first broken promise?) because he tried and then all the blame will be pointed at the Provincial Liberals, the TTC, MetroLinks, and of course David Miller. (You just wait for this forum to be lit-up with excuses why it's ok for Ford to break promises.)

But by chance he succeeds and goes ahead with the subway plan, the $8billion already earmarked would be plain wasted taxpayer's money. And guess what - the rightwingers (on this forum) as well as all the communities outside of Toronto will simply blame the Provincial Liberal government for more financial mismanagement.

It's a winning situation for Ford either way. The fools are those who believed his campaign.

Edited December 3, 2010 by daniel

[Oleg Bach]

FORD is a business man first- political creature second..He will serve his masters which are other higher ranking business people..and as he saves a hundred bucks on staples - he will hand over a billion bucks to his friends and get the pat on the head he so desperately needs...after all he is a dog in human form.

[Pogo]

And I'm sure all the penny pinching car lovers who voted for His Lardship would love love love to shell out the extra $50 Billion or so it would cost for this plan.

Yes...what kind of automobile driver would want to put money towards alleviating traffic on the streets they drive on, hmmm....

Edited December 3, 2010 by Pogo