Ford era begins in Toronto

[nicky10013]

What does a streetcar do that a bus or two cannot? If what is needed is just more surface transit that stops frequently at convenient locations, simply increasing bus service seems like all that would be needed. If the goal is rapid transit with high ridership between high density hubs, then some type of light rail is needed. Obviously subways aren't meant to go everywhere where buses do, they are meant to go between locations where there is high enough demand to make them economically viable.

As someone who has driven behind both streetcars and buses, I can tell you that buses are easily the worst. Streetcars are bigger and can carry more people. They may stop often but since there are fewer on the road because they can do just that, carry more people, they're easier to get around. When I drive in the city it's usually along Finch, and when I do, it's absolutely a common occurance to get stuck behind 3 or 4 buses all jammed up together. They're impossible to get around as they have the right of way. They weave in and out of traffic. At least with a streetcar, you reliably know where they will be going and where they'll be stopping.

Edited December 8, 2010 by nicky10013

[bloodyminded]

Reading Cherry's speech, I had to wonder: is the man brain damaged? There's hardly a single coherent sentence in there. "But again, I was asked why I was asked. And I asked Doug, Rob, why?... And I could go on right now, all the millions and thousands of dollars he's gonna save and everything..." I used to look forward to Cherry on Coach's Corner; but, man, I think he's gone senile.

He should stick to what he's good at. Baiting lefties is defiitely not his strong suit.

[Black Dog]

Hmm I dunno much about Toronto but looking at a map of its Subway system gives me the impression that it has less routes and stations and less ridership than for example the Montreal Metro. Given Toronto's higher population, this cursory analysis would suggest that Toronto needs a major expansion of its Subway system to be competitive with Canada's other major cities in this regard.

The problem with Toronto's system is that it's overcapacity. It needs an expansion of its transit system-including subways lines-to meet demand and reduce traffic congestion.

As for streetcars.. they are an obsolete technology belonging to the 19th century. The point of urban rail transit is to get people around quickly, and to reduce traffic on the streets. Street cars traveling on streets do not get around quickly, since they physically move slowly, must wait in traffic and at lights, and they do not reduce street traffic since they travel on the streets. They do not seem to hold any particular advantage over buses (besides reduced energy use), in fact, they have many disadvantages, such as the need for additional infrastructure and the inability to adapt their routes in case of accidents or weather conditions.

You're incorrect. There's a reason more and more cities are turning to streetcars or other forms of light rail as a inexpensive means of expanding their transit networks. Let's be clear: the new model of streetcars has them operating on their own right of ways, which completely negates any concerns around traffic tie ups. Buses, by contrast, still need to operate in traffic and are simply incapable of moving the same volumes of people as streetcars/LRVs. No one is proposing an expansion of the on-street streetcar system.

In contrast, systems like Skytrain and Subways can move unimpeded by lights at speeds of up to 90 km/h, moving people around the city very quickly and reducing street traffic

90km/h eh?

....

Edited December 8, 2010 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

I'm smart enough not to live in shit-hole Toronto!

Couldn't get a job here, eh?

I'm looking for jobs in the Toronto area, and I'd prefer it if the city didn't go bankrupt. And preferably, I'd appreciate it if they weren't hostile to business.

[bloodyminded]

Couldn't get a job here, eh?

How in the world do people forget they have a posting history, and that it can be looked at?

[nicky10013]

The problem with Toronto's system is that it's overcapacity. It needs an expansion of its transit system-including subways lines-to meet demand and reduce traffic congestion.

Yup, which is why the DRL is needed.

You're incorrect. There's a reason more and more cities are turning to streetcars or other forms of light rail as a inexpensive means of expanding their transit networks. Let's be clear: the new model of streetcars has them operating on their own right of ways, which completely negates any concerns around traffic tie ups. Buses, by contrast, still need to operate in traffic and are simply incapable of moving the same volumes of people as streetcars/LRVs. No one is proposing an expansion of the on-street streetcar system.

Absolutely. I don't know if anyone has been to Berlin, but their streetcar system is actually quite interesting. It's mostly been constructed in former East Berlin. In that part of the city, there are very wide boulevards and in the middle a fairly wide grass divider. They've got the trams running in the grassy area and near stops they've got little bars where you can sit down and have a beer while on the way home. I was also shocked about how bloody fast they are.

90km/h eh?

....

Ahah yeah I didn't want to say anything.

[Black Dog]

Aww, somebody's still upset that the vast majority of Torontonians rejected the small core of know-it-alls who think they're allowed to govern by decree.

I'm upset because a small minority (less than 25%)of the former suburbs of Toronto elected a small group of no-nothings who think they're allowed to govern by decree.

[M.Dancer]

90km/h eh?

....

The Vancouver Skytrain has a top speed of 90k

[M.Dancer]

If the Motreal subwat expansion is approved, they will have the largest subway in Canada.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/regional/montreal/200905/24/01-859418-un-pacte-a-trois-pour-prolonger-le-metro.php

http://www.stm.info/english/metro/a-mapmet.htm

[guyser]

How in the world do people forget they have a posting history, and that it can be looked at?

Rhetorical I hope.

Besides, look who makes that mistake, not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[bloodyminded]

Rhetorical I hope.

Besides, look who makes that mistake, not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

My question was not rhetorical, but maybe it should have been.

[guyser]

Well You know, I have always said, If Shelbyville can have a monorail, why can't we?

Sure but they built in Shelbyville expecting an economic boom from the Shelbyville Olympics like the one Sarajevo experienced after the '84 Olympics

[Oleg Bach]

Cherry, like our resident troll Shady, doesn't even fucking live in Toronto. It's like the further you get from the core, the dumber people get.

True. BUT - what I will say about the clownish Don Cherry - is that he attempted to provoke the left into a state of mindless panic..to polarize Toronto polically is not a good idea - moderation and a centralist mentality will serve all the people..The idea that Ford referes to the citizens of this city as customers or in plain language - habitualist consumers...shows that he plans to run the place like a department store..where profit is the only motivation - for a guy that is supposed to be so frugal - I sense his frugality will turn into hording . Much like our Canadian banks that faired so well during the global down turn . because they hord...........cheapness is not a postive approach. Oh and that Cherry spectacle...certainly cheapened the office of mayor...welcome to Toronto Inc..where share holders will be denied their dividends.

[Black Dog]

The Vancouver Skytrain has a top speed of 90k

They don't travel at top speed. Ever.

[Oleg Bach]

They don't travel at top speed. Ever.

I have a top speed..but if I attempt it I could burn up - or worse - fall out of bed with a heart attack.

[Oleg Bach]

He should stick to what he's good at. Baiting lefties is defiitely not his strong suit.

We forget we are part of an aging population. Take a good look at Cherry - he is a dithering old man now...much like some of us..who look in the mirror and see the old young us..but the reality is when a photo is taken you see the grey and the faded eyes...of course Cherry is brain damaged...all that scotch sipping - an years of eating rich food...has a price...now where did I put my coffee?

[nicky10013]

If the Motreal subwat expansion is approved, they will have the largest subway in Canada.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/regional/montreal/200905/24/01-859418-un-pacte-a-trois-pour-prolonger-le-metro.php

http://www.stm.info/english/metro/a-mapmet.htm

I doubt this takes into consideration the construction starting on the Spadina and Yonge extensions which will add 12 kilometers and 12 extra stations. Montreal is only adding 9.

[nicky10013]

Ahahahah the rhetoric out of Ford has been that City Council never voted on Transit City and therefore an be repealed without a vote.

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=4671

Turns out that's not true. Not only did counil vote for Transit City, but Ford himself voted for the project. Not once, but twice.

[M.Dancer]

I doubt this takes into consideration the construction starting on the Spadina and Yonge extensions which will add 12 kilometers and 12 extra stations. Montreal is only adding 9.

Montreals cross rivers...

[nicky10013]

Montreals cross rivers...

So?

[M.Dancer]

Sure but they built in Shelbyville expecting an economic boom from the Shelbyville Olympics like the one Sarajevo experienced after the '84 Olympics

I'm old enough to remember the Expo 67 mono and mini rails..

http://expo67.ncf.ca/expo_express_p1.html

http://expo67.ncf.ca/expo_minirail_p1.html

[Black Dog]

Ahahahah the rhetoric out of Ford has been that City Council never voted on Transit City and therefore an be repealed without a vote.

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=4671

Turns out that's not true. Not only did counil vote for Transit City, but Ford himself voted for the project. Not once, but twice.

Now to be fair, you can't expect him to remember stuff like council votes. He was probably preoccupied with figuring out how to get a constituent's cat out of a tree.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Black Dog

[M.Dancer]

So?

When the extensions are finshed, the addition on the blue line from St Michel to Ville D'Anjou will add 7K.

The Orange line will add 2 k

If the orange line from Laval loops back to Bois franc, that would add 5 k (and under water)

The Yellow line will ad 1 k

The blue line extension into the west island would add 5k

The Metro is already Canada's largest and busiest subway, planning for the future will keep it that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Metro#City_of_Montreal

[Black Dog]

When the extensions are finshed, the addition on the blue line from St Michel to Ville D'Anjou will add 7K.

The Orange line will add 2 k

If the orange line from Laval loops back to Bois franc, that would add 5 k (and under water)

The Yellow line will ad 1 k

The blue line extension into the west island would add 5k

The Metro is already Canada's largest and busiest subway, planning for the future will keep it that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Metro#City_of_Montreal

And what's this have to do with Toronto?

[M.Dancer]

And what's this have to do with Toronto?

Montreal is an innovative city. They aren't clogging up the streets with right of way rail lines...