Chevy Volt

[August1991]

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors on Tuesday set a price of $41,000 for its electric Chevrolet Volt -- $8,000 more than its nearest competitor, the Nissan Leaf.

Reuters

Who will pay $41,000 for what amounts to a fully-loaded version of a Toyota Corolla? Dunno. Maybe there are some government subsidies/rebates available.

And then again, I thought Avatar was a crappy movie that would fail at the box office.

[waldo]

Motor Trend FTW! Lotsa U.S. Conservatives railing against the Chevy Volt... and the Car of the Year award - most noticeably #1 gasbag, Rush Limpballs: "driving and oxycotin don't mix!"

[August1991]

Motor Trend FTW! Lotsa U.S. Conservatives railing against the Chevy Volt... and the Car of the Year award - most noticeably #1 gasbag, Rush Limpballs: "driving and oxycotin don't mix!"

If I understand your argument, since Rush Lumbaugh is against the Volt, you are necessarily for it.

So who is really playing "fan boy politics" here?

Maybe we should simply look at the car on its merits. And because Motor Trend says that it's a good car, I won't take that as final proof. Rating agencies, as we all know, deserve verification.

-----

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see people paying $41,000 for a Toyota Corolla.

And if GM's marketing strategy depends on Left Wing fan-boy buyers, then I'm certain this car is sunk. The only leftists with money are gay, university professors and Hollywood types. And they would never buy an American car.

Edited November 25, 2010 by August1991

[waldo]

If I understand your argument, since Rush Lumbaugh is against the Volt, you are necessarily for it.

So who is really playing "fan boy politics" here?

was there an argument posited? Here I thought it was just an opportunity to showcase the 'politics' of the typical right-wing shock-jocks... that it was Limbaugh, even better. Take a peek at what's being written/said out there... very little of it has anything to do with the actual merits of the car. For the most part the usual suspects are railing against the car... because, apparently, "Obama was/is for it" (see GM subsidies at large, Volt subsidies in particular).

[August1991]

was there an argument posited?

You made the reference: "... #1 gasbag, Rush Limpballs... "

So I assumed that you were no longer talking about the car, except to note the opinion of Motor Trend, and your opinion of Limbaugh.

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Waldo, this is normal, fan boy, partisan politics. Left: "Governments are good." Right: "Governments are bad." Pick your side, like the Canadiens or Maple Leafs, and cheer.

Then again, maybe the Volt is simply an expensive car - for what you get. But to arrive at that conclusion, you'd have to have some other criteria than simply being a fan boy.

IOW, Rush Limbaugh may sometimes say intelligent things. But to know when he does, you'd have to have some way to judge him - other than: "Go Habs Go."

[TimG]

And if GM's marketing strategy depends on Left Wing fan-boy buyers, then I'm certain this car is sunk. The only leftists with money are gay, university professors and Hollywood types. And they would never buy an American car.

This car is a political symbol of the fight over the GM bailout. For every right wing type that refuses to buy "on principle" there is an left wing type that will buy it for the same reason.

In fact, I am not certain that political calculations did not enter into MotorTrend's decision. They are human and likely do have a political opinion on the GM bailout.

That said, it is just another hybrid so it is probably a servicable car if one wishes to pay the price for a hybrid. Personnally, I would stick with a high MPG gas vehicle. Better value for money but that could change.

Edited November 25, 2010 by TimG

[August1991]

In fact, I am not certain that political calculations did not enter into MotorTrend's decision. They are human and likely do have a political opinion on the GM bailout.

Political calculations? I don't know much about Motor Trend (or cars for that matter) but I suspect more than "political calculations" entered into MotorTrend's decision.

----

[Thread drift ahead]

I have always thought that Faust got the bargain wrong. Few people sell themselves out for their own benefit. Most do it (at least ostensibly) for their children, or their spouse.

Most of us would refuse a $1 million bribe if we feared getting caught. But if the bribe is cast as helping our children in the future, we view the decision differently.

That said, it is just another hybrid so it is probably a servicable car if one wishes to pay the price for a hybrid. Personnally, I would stick with a high MPG gas vehicle. Better value for money but that could change.

Agreed. I looked carefully at the numbers for a Toyota Prius and it simply does not make sense to buy one. You are better off with a low mpg car - even if gasoline goes to $1.50 per litre. (I did my numbers with a high commuting factor. If you drive long distance, you have even less reason to buy one.)

That's the private cost. As to the public/social cost, I'm not sure the Prius offers true reductions in CO2 emissions, and no one has yet to figure out how to recycle/dispose of the batteries.

Edited November 25, 2010 by August1991

[TimG]

Political calculations? I don't know much about Motor Trend (or cars for that matter) but I suspect more than "political calculations" entered into MotorTrend's decision.

We can never know. Maybe it is actually is a really good car. We will have to see how the sales go.

That said, it appears the Volt enjoys a $7500 tax credit that no other hybrid vehicle qualifies for. The fact that you can plug it into an outlet seems to make a big difference to the boffins. I am curious how much that feature will be used in practice.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxphevb.shtml

Edited November 25, 2010 by TimG

[waldo]

Waldo, this is normal, fan boy, partisan politics. Left: "Governments are good." Right: "Governments are bad." Pick your side, like the Canadiens or Maple Leafs, and cheer.

no - the car itself has been derided by the U.S. conservative right; the "symbolic" car... from the mainstream press, through the blogs and by the tv/radio "shock-jocks". Are you labeling them with your so-called "fan-boy" brush. I didn't offer an opinion on the car, either way - yet, you felt simply showcasing the antics of one of those right-wing conservative gas-bags was the measure of your attaching "fan-boy" status. Perhaps you could advise when you apply that same brush to yourself - hey?

[waldo]

That said, it appears the Volt enjoys a $7500 tax credit that no other hybrid vehicle qualifies for.

no - Rush to Judgment - Motor Trends Reply to Limpballs

But, harrumph. In its attempt to force cars that don’t use much gas on us — how un-American/un-ExxonMobil/un-Halliburton is that? — the Obama administration is offering a $7,500 tax credit on the Chevy Volt, grabbing tax breaks and credits right out of the deserving, job-creating pockets of America’s richest individuals. How dare he?

This is another of your distortions, Rush, repeated by the otherwise more level-headed George Will in The Washington Post last Sunday. The $7,500 Obama tax credit is an expansion of President Bush’s hybrid credits from the last decade. The Obama tax credit extends to the new Nissan Leaf, too, but if you or Will slammed that car, I’ve not heard or read it. I’d be surprised if you did, though, as Nissan is building the Leaf in a non-union factory in a right-to-work state represented by two Republican senators. A factory located there because Tennessee offered Nissan big tax credits. Maybe you’re worried that if the $7,500 tax credit works, too many people will buy the Volt, and that could reduce the need for oil drilling tax credits?

[August1991]

I didn't offer an opinion on the car, either way...

Precisely my point. What do you think of this car, Waldo?

My first post at least noted its price: $41,000.

That said, it appears the Volt enjoys a $7500 tax credit that no other hybrid vehicle qualifies for.

Is the $41,000 before or after the rebate?

Will our governments (federal/provincial) match these rebates?

At present, provincial rebates for the Prius are around $2000.

Whether $2000 or $7500, I still don't understand why governments should subsidize the purchase of any car? Why should a working single mother riding on a bus to go home pay any tax to subsidize someone in a car blocking traffic, and her ride home?

It seems to me that the taxes and subsidies should go in the other direction - but I guess that I don't understand politics.

Edited November 25, 2010 by August1991

[TimG]

The Obama tax credit extends to the new Nissan Leaf

The Leaf is a pure electric vehicle. The Volt is a hybrid that, depending on how the owner runs it, can consume as much gas as any regular car.

[Guest TrueMetis]

My link

Honestly this is the first hybrid that I would actually like to drive.

Edited November 25, 2010 by TrueMetis

[msj]

The Volt is a hybrid that, depending on how the owner runs it, can consume as much gas as any regular car.

So that's why W. Bush started the tax credits for hybrids!

Now I get it.

[Guest TrueMetis]

In fact, I am not certain that political calculations did not enter into MotorTrend's decision. They are human and likely do have a political opinion on the GM bailout.

Political calculations like testing the car? Why does politics always have to play into everything with you people. There is a reason I posted this in the Health, Science and Technology section. Watch the damn video in my link and it outlines exactly why the Volt one. They managed to get 127 MPG for Christ sake.

[August1991]

Political calculations like testing the car? .... Watch the damn video in my link and it outlines exactly why the Volt one. They managed to get 127 MPG for Christ sake.

127 mpg, according to whom?

Political calculations? Well, who owns GM now?

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TrueMetis, are you naive, or simply stupid?

[Guest TrueMetis]

127 mpg, according to whom?

You didn't even read the bloody article did you?

The buff book looked past the is-it-just-a-hybrid hoopla and even wrote about how they achieved 127 miles per gallon while putting the car through real world driving conditions.

Political calculations? Well, who owns GM now?

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize that Motor Trend was owned by GM. You may not be able to function without involving politics in everything but that's not a handicap most people have.

TrueMetis, are you naive, or simply stupid?

At least I'm literate enough to read the damn article.

[TimG]

Political calculations like testing the car?

Obama made cars a political issue when he took over GM. In any case, I was too hard on MotorTrend. I looked at the competition. The Volt is really in a class of its own and I can't see how they could have picked any other car. I did not realize the Japanese competition for plug hybrids is at least a year away.

[Pliny]

Obama made cars a political issue when he took over GM.

Yes, he did.

In any case, I was too hard on MotorTrend.

No, you weren't. I'm pretty sure that GM missed no opportunity or left no rock unturned in getting the Volk Volt selected car of the year.

Sorry to in"volk" Godwin's law so early in the thread.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Whether $2000 or $7500, I still don't understand why governments should subsidize the purchase of any car? Why should a working single mother riding on a bus to go home pay any tax to subsidize someone in a car blocking traffic, and her ride home?

It seems to me that the taxes and subsidies should go in the other direction - but I guess that I don't understand politics.

Ontario seems to disagree...for obvious GM reasons. Looks like a new Chevrolet Volt will earn a handsome rebate of $10,000 CAD in that province. You guys can argue about it until summer 2011, when it will be available in Canada.

http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/17/canadian-government-gives-10000-chevy-volt-subsidy-angers-toyota/

[Topaz]

I hate to burst any one bubble but I wondered how much it would cost to plug it in. I didn't find that but I did find this article that says GM is lying about this car. You decide. http://jalopnik.com/5661051/how-gm-lied-about-the-electric-car

[Wilber]

Car and Driver liked it to.

Volt

[Wilber]

Ontario seems to disagree...for obvious GM reasons. Looks like a new Chevrolet Volt will earn a handsome rebate of $10,000 CAD in that province. You guys can argue about it until summer 2011, when it will be available in Canada.

http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/17/canadian-government-gives-10000-chevy-volt-subsidy-angers-toyota/

If you are going to have rebates, basing them on a propulsion system is stupid. Giving a rebate to someone who buys an Escalade Hybrid that gets 60 % worse mileage than a VW diesel which gets no rebate is asinine. If rebates are given at all they should be based or real economy numbers, not the latest fad.

[pfezziwig]

How can you call it car of the year when no one wants to buy it? They'll be lucky to get a few hollywood millionaire tree huggers to buy it. Pretty elitiest attitude of Motor Trend picking a car the rich and middle class have no desire for.

I guess the fact this car is totally uncompetitive with other hybrid cars and pure electric cars was not used in the determination of this award, I wonder what was used...maybe who was going to give Motor Trend the most advertising dollars next year perhaps?

This was car of the year 25 years ago when GM built the first mass produced electric car.

[guyser]

How can you call it car of the year when no one wants to buy it?

You mean like The Hurt Locker?

Good does not depend on popularity....it does for $$$$ sales.