Training mission to cost 1 million per soilder per year

[William Ashley]

When I saw the numbers i was startled that classroom training will cost 1 million dollars +/- per solider deployed (that is for the 950 soilders to be deployed, about that amount in millions per year so 3 billion.

If 1 year in university costs say $10,000, that would be 100 full scholarships x 850 or 85,000 full scholarships per year for the cost of the training mission?

What are they training them in, how to waste money?

Stephen Harper Economics Strikes Again.

What is more important to Canadians 85000 full scholarships or training people in central Asia to kill their own people?

Professors don't even get 1 million dollars, if they are training them in classrooms, why are the costs so high? Gold Foil instead of loose leaf?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2010/11/16/afghanistan-training-details.html

To give you an idea of what that means there are around 850,000 university students in Canada.. this means that 1 in 10 university students in Canada could gain a full scholarship for the cost of this program for the next four years.

This "training mission" in central Asia is costing Canada 1 in 10 university students a free education.

Why is it Canada is paying for this training mission when there are 260 other nations on the planet participating in the UN?

Even university professors don't usually get paid 1 million a year to teach - in this perfectly safe humanitarian non combat mission. Why all the fuss?

Edited November 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[Bonam]

When I saw the numbers i was startled that classroom training will cost 1 million dollars +/- per solider deployed (that is for the 950 soilders to be deployed, about that amount in millions per year so 3 billion.

If 1 year in university costs say $10,000, that would be 100 full scholarships x 850 or 85,000 full scholarships per year for the cost of the training mission?

One year in university does not cost $10,000. That is the cost of tuition in a Canadian university, after massive government subsidies and funding. In North American universities which do not receive subsidies and funding in this way, the cost is closer to $70,000-$100,000.

What is more important to Canadians 85000 full scholarships or training people in central Asia to kill their own people?

Who says we can't do both? There is plenty of scholarship funding for deserving students, and also plenty of financial aid for students with insufficient funds.

Professors don't even get 1 million dollars, if they are training them in classrooms, why are the costs so high? Gold Foil instead of loose leaf?

Umm, maybe cause a lot of the training involves things besides sitting in a classroom in Canada?

To give you an idea of what that means there are around 850,000 university students in Canada.. this means that 1 in 10 university students in Canada could gain a full scholarship for the cost of this program for the next four years.

This "training mission" in central Asia is costing Canada 1 in 10 university students a free education.

Why do these students deserve a free education? Those that have good grades already get scholarships, and those that come from poor backgrounds already get financial aid. Why do we need to give out more free stuff?

Why is it Canada is paying for this training mission when there are 260 other nations on the planet participating in the UN?

First, there aren't 260 nations in the UN. Second, most of them are useless third world hellholes.

[M.Dancer]

What is more important to Canadians 85000 full scholarships or training people in central Asia to kill their own people?

Training people in central asia to kill their own people.

1) Them killing their own people is far better than us doing it

2) Earning you place is college is far better than it being handed to you

[William Ashley]

Training people in central asia to kill their own people.

1) Them killing their own people is far better than us doing it

2) Earning you place is college is far better than it being handed to you

Your logic is barbaric.

1. you say killing your own citizens is better than a foreign nation killing them. At least the conflict ends when the foreign nation withdrawls. When you have brother killing brother this is something you have to live with forever, a never ending conflict of common peoples. Why not a two state solution in Afghanistan?

2. sure if you have the money not everyone has the skills or a job or money to enable that for them, nor is working a full time or part time job necessarily conducive to dedicated study.

Also what do you think Canada providing this to foreign peoples is.. free education on how to kill?

You somewhat self destruct your own arguments here, is this suppose to be a strawman argument?

Edited November 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[Guest TrueMetis]

Where does it say what you are claiming? it says.

MacKay said the new mission will cost the military up to $500 million per year, with a one-time initial expenditure of $85 million for rollout. The government will spend another $300 million over three years on development and aid. The current combat mission costs about $1 billion per year.

Where's the bit claiming a million per soldier?

1. you say killing your own citizens is better than a foreign nation killing them.

Our citizens are not suppressing peoples rights and killing people for trying to live their own lives.

Edited November 17, 2010 by TrueMetis

[M.Dancer]

Your logic is barbaric.

War is barbaric, what's your point?

1. you say killing your own citizens is better than a foreign nation killing them.

Correct

2. sure if you have the money not everyone has the skills or a job or money to enable that for them, nor is working a full time or part time job necessarily conducive to dedicated study.

Yet people do all the time. Parents save ...students work. If they want it, they can get it.

Also what do you think Canada providing this to foreign peoples is.. free education on how to kill?

I think it is great. Far better than us doing the killing. Why do I feel that I am repeating myself?

You somewhat self destruct your own arguments here, is this suppose to be a scarecrow argument?

Maybe you mean strawman...in which case no...have I put words in your mouth or ascribed a position to you that you don't hold....

[William Ashley]

Where does it say what you are claiming? it says.

Stephen Harper Economic analysis requires rounding up.

Where's the bit claiming a million per soldier?

850 soliders - $885 million we can put the 35 extra into the 100 support staff oh hold on there are 250 support staff we can sa 750 million for the trainers and 135 million for the support. How is that.

There are other reports. Not given by the government that have higher figures.

Our citizens are not suppressing peoples rights and killing people for trying to live their own lives.

Oh they are. Its called the government as well as other groups.

You could say it is the law, but Stephen Harper Law aka partisan anarchy tends to erode the notions of privilege by responsible governance. What is rule of law without the law?

Edited November 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[Guest TrueMetis]

Stephen Harper Economic analysis requires rounding up.

So you're making shit up, that all I needed to know.

[Wilber]

Your logic is barbaric.

1. you say killing your own citizens is better than a foreign nation killing them. At least the conflict ends when the foreign nation withdrawls. When you have brother killing brother this is something you have to live with forever, a never ending conflict of common peoples. Why not a two state solution in Afghanistan?

I think what he is saying is them killing their own people is better than us doing it for them. If so I agree.

[Army Guy]

Are you unemployed, because i have a problem with self claimed teachers pulling facts out of thier asses....and i can't believe that a school board would put up with it...hence the question.

Your missing half the facts , it seems like your making up the other half, as for the cost perhaps you should check out how much it cost to put one Canadian soldier through basic training, then onto basic trades training.....This is not cooking class sally, this is classes on how to use todays wpns to kill our enemies....and it cost money lots of money....

[William Ashley]

So you're making shit up, that all I needed to know.

Yeah me, Kevin Page, and Sheila Fraser are all making stuff up. We are making stuff uppers. *detect the sarcasm*

Edited November 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[Army Guy]

You are making this shit up you hav'nt even read your own source....It would cost DND 500 mil plus an addtional 85 mil for start up costs....the other 300 mil was for rebuilding projects which are government funded.....I guess you'll have to redo your figures....

[punked]

Just a point governments already pay cost to 80% of tuition costs. So if University costs 10,000 that means the government is paying around 45,000 dollars already. Just a small point.

[Saipan]

Never mind training mission.

Registering duck guns cost $2 BILLION and nothing was accomplished - and hardly even registered so far.

[William Ashley]

Your missing half the facts , it seems like your making up the other half, as for the cost perhaps you should check out how much it cost to put one Canadian soldier through basic training, then onto basic trades training.....This is not cooking class sally, this is classes on how to use todays wpns to kill our enemies....and it cost money lots of money....

The difference you aren't seeing is 1. Training Canadian soldiers and training foreign soldiers should be different economic priorities when Canada is running a huge deficit and has a 750 billion debt load. Why are Canadians being taxed the extra $200 for this when 85000 Canadians could be put through a year of university for that?

What Canadian equipment contracts are they signed up for for future supply? Isn't most Canadian equipment American anyway? How is this money coming back to Canada? What are the actual benefits say 10 years down the road vs this same period of time training 85000 additional Canadians for professional careers? Research and Development from the Sciences, or the cultural benefits in funding the arts, or future executives through Business schools?

If you had the option for one or the other what do you think would benefit Canada more?

Why doesn't super rich China, or USA pay for this, It is China's neighbor afterall?

I think the 20 million Canadian Tax Payers should decide if they want to pay $200 into training their fellow citizens, or afghans in central Asia next to China, OR if they want to have a steak and a beer now and then, or go out for a weekend or take a trip, or pay for a few months of subscription to a special service, or pay their heating bill, or fill up their gas tank.

Canadians have a personal debt load of 1 trillion dollars not counting the public debt.

Why is each Canadian Tax Payer loosing $200 from their wallet for this Central Asia training mission? It is their country not Canada's. Why are Canadian tax payers paying for their needs and wants. This is 8 years of 1 in 10 university students getting full scholarships, already why another 3?

The coalition kill count is going up year by year more of Canada and their gang are dying, more civilians are dying - the level of violence and extremism is going up, the drug production is going up. What good is happening? More rapes and civilian deaths. What good is happening? What good have they done being there?

200 + 1500 + 3600 + 1000

that is already around $6500 in Stephen Harper Military Taxes out of each Canadians pocket in the last 3 months. And this without tendering or parliamentary vote in some cases. But you know where that money is coming from- the future - he doesn't have it. He is making future hardship on your backs, and we are approaching demographic crisis.

Is it fair for our elderly to retire in poverty? There is a glass ceiling for taxes, you can't touch the corporations much before it breaks, and many Canadians are making ends meat just to survive the $800 a month for retirement will barely provide them with a means of survival and that is without changing the disfunctional programs such as cpp/oas.

You have to see this for what it is, another drop in the pool the elderly may be drowned in. People between 55 and up are most vulnerable if they depend on the government or will.

This is fear mongering but fearmongering with the truth.

And what it means on the flip side is higher taxes for everyone under 55 in 5 or 10 years.

Edited November 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[M.Dancer]

850 soliders - $885 million we can put the 35 extra into the 100 support staff oh hold on there are 250 support staff we can sa 750 million for the trainers and 135 million for the support. How is that.

There are other reports. Not given by the government that have higher figures.

MacKay said the new mission will cost the military up to $500 million per year, with a one-time initial expenditure of $85 million for rollout. The government will spend another $300 million over three years on development and aid. The current combat mission costs about $1 billion per year.

So the amount is 500 million plus 85 million...not 885 million.

[myata]

In the name of Holy Democracy! (by unholy hands but who really gives a damn)

[WestCoaster]

So the amount is 500 million plus 85 million...not 885 million.

You're arguing over details. We shouldn't spend one dime training these animals to kill each other. Not one dime. Afghanistan is a lost cause, and this military adventure should really be brought to a close.

[William Ashley]

http://carnegieendowment.org/files/china_role_afghanistan.pdf

Why arn't they paying lets check to see how much Afghanistan's regional neighbours are paying to help the UNITED NATIONS MANDATED ISAF mission.

While Canada is draining a billion dollars per year out of their pockets to fund this? And why? It is their neighborhood.

It is like paying property taxes to Toronto when you live in Calgary.

Edited November 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[guyser]

You're arguing over details.

What else is to argue about? If not the details.

We shouldn't spend one dime training these animals to kill each other. Not one dime. Afghanistan is a lost cause, and this military adventure should really be brought to a close.

Pretty bloody pathetic....not to mention unwarranted....not to mention extremely dumb...not to mention extremely stupid

[Topaz]

Talking about cost, WHY are WE paying to train AFGHANS THEY should be paying Canada? Why does it take 950? I don't think you can be in a war zone and not be shot at, even if you are inside the wire, people do shot from outside the wire in. Both, the US and Canada have been training and this is just a waste of money because they still don't have enough trained. Either the trained soldiers run off after being PAID and lately when taken out on practice, there have been soldiers killed by the trained.

[wyly]

should have hired the Taliban to do the training they're obviously better than we are...7 or 8 years with no air support, high tech equipment fancy training courses and they're still more than we can handle...

[Michael Hardner]

should have hired the Taliban to do the training they're obviously better than we are...7 or 8 years with no air support, high tech equipment fancy training courses and they're still more than we can handle...

But that's not surprising. It isn't really much better than it was, but not much worse either.

It would be better for us to guage the status of the war with numeric graphs as Drew Conway has done.

[Army Guy]

The difference you aren't seeing is 1. Training Canadian soldiers and training foreign soldiers should be different economic priorities when Canada is running a huge deficit and has a 750 billion debt load. Why are Canadians being taxed the extra $200 for this when 85000 Canadians could be put through a year of university for that?

First off, Canada is NOT running a 750 Bil debt load, your facts are wrong way wrong......Second there is not going to be any addtional debt load to Canada the Mission will and always has come out of the DND budget....Thats right out of the already existing DND budget...our current mission cost DND 1 bil a year, this mission will cost 1/2 of that minus the intial 85 mil for start up costs...So tech DND will end up with an addtional 500 mil in it's budget when our mission in the south comes to a close.

The remaining 300 mil is for rebuilding projects, you know the ones Canadians have always wanted that is new money, and that investment will be coming out another dept....

What Canadian equipment contracts are they signed up for for future supply? Isn't most Canadian equipment American anyway? How is this money coming back to Canada? What are the actual benefits say 10 years down the road vs this same period of time training 85000 additional Canadians for professional careers? Research and Development from the Sciences, or the cultural benefits in funding the arts, or future executives through Business schools?

It's not coming back to Canada in the sense your talking about, Stop and think about this just for a second, we as a nation have so much to offer, we have funding, expertise in every area, equipment , soldiers, even with a 500 bil deficit,you can't really tell me we can't afford it...Or is it really all about the money, we have it and screw the rest of the world..

10 Years down the road NATO will be long gone, and Afghan as a nation will have to stand up on her own, that is the benifit to our nation we would have assisted in another small nation in this huge world to become a better place.

Why doesn't super rich China, or USA pay for this, It is China's neighbor afterall?

The US is paying for most of it, once again your lack of research astounds me, why don't you tell us all how much the US spends on this mission....better yet tell us how much they spend on the Combat side, the rebuilding side and the governmental side...

I think the 20 million Canadian Tax Payers should decide if they want to pay $200 into training their fellow citizens, or afghans in central Asia next to China, OR if they want to have a steak and a beer now and then, or go out for a weekend or take a trip, or pay for a few months of subscription to a special service, or pay their heating bill, or fill up their gas tank.

You did decide when you placed your vote...you did vote right....besides your not going to have any addtional tax load because of this mission it is coming out of DNDN existing budget.....

Canadians have a personal debt load of 1 trillion dollars not counting the public debt.

Why is each Canadian Tax Payer loosing $200 from their wallet for this Central Asia training mission? It is their country not Canada's. Why are Canadian tax payers paying for their needs and wants. This is 8 years of 1 in 10 university students getting full scholarships, already why another 3?

Because the mission is not over, but who cares you say, i and the other 90,000 soldiers care, it was our blood sweat and tears that was invested....and we pay taxes as well, thats right you do the math....So lets look at the math DND pays for the mission, with exception of the funding for rebuilding projects.....in this case 1 Bil, 90,000 soldiers pay taxes that pretty much covers the cost of the mission, It's the soldier that pay the blood and sweat to carry out the mission....so the Average Canadian pays what you said 20 million tax payers ( your figures) pay lets say 400,000,000 mil to make up the difference that the soldiers could not pay out, thats 20 dollars each not 200.00 but 20 bucks, tell you what send me your address and i'll send you your 20 bucks, because i would hate the thought of one Canadian that could not afford or did not want to waste 20 bucks trying to give something to another nation something we take advantage of every day called freedom....

The coalition kill count is going up year by year more of Canada and their gang are dying, more civilians are dying - the level of violence and extremism is going up, the drug production is going up. What good is happening? More rapes and civilian deaths. What good is happening? What good have they done being there?

Have you been there ? have you done any research at all My first tour in Afghan our first Tic was at the front gate....we did not have to leave the compaound to engage the enemy....that base at that time had over 25,000 troops in it.....

Today there are open markets , schools with kids in them, universities, cell phones, computers, stores and shops, people walking the streets, airports running, Dams providing power, new highways, loaded with traffic, Talk to the people....

Yes people are dieing it's a f***ing war, level of violence is up, Drugs are not the priority but production is not up...in fact NATO destroys more crops now than it ever has....And the Taliban is talking to the Afghan government

What good is happening , all you have to do is look, there is peace in alot more towns and cities, while it may not be peace that Canadians know, to them it's peace....And Canada has played a small part in bringing that to them....becuase with out our small contribution those Taliban bastards would still be in power, free to terrorize everyone and anyone, and while it might not mean anything to you, i've seen first hand thier exploits, the terror they bring, and it means alot to me, so much so i've risked my life on 3 separate 6 month tours....while it has cost you what 20 bucks a year....and your still whinning...

This is fear mongering but fearmongering with the truth.

No this is Bullshit....just plain Bullshit.....

[charter.rights]

First off, Canada is NOT running a 750 Bil debt load, your facts are wrong way wrong......

Canada's debt is $522.337 billion for 2010. The deficit (shortfall in paying back the debt) is over $55 billion, meaning that we are adding that to the debt this year.

Neither the war or the police training post war can be financially justified. There have to be other reasons. And given that the Soviet Union got its ass handed to it in Afghanistan, it is highly unlikely that any training we offer military or police forces is going to solve their problems. Therefore in my mind the extra years over there are not easily justified on any front.

Edited November 17, 2010 by charter.rights