Islamist groups seek ‘parallel society’ in Canada

[scribblet]

This is disturbing and I suppose a reality we may have to face..

TORONTO — A newly released intelligence report says hardline Islamist groups want to build a “parallel society” in Canada, which could undermine the country’s social cohesion and foster violence.

The de-classified Intelligence Assessment obtained by the National Post says extremists have been encouraging Muslims in the West to reject Western society and to live in “self-imposed isolation.” The report focuses on groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which do not advocate terrorist violence but promote an ideology at odds with core Western values.

“Even if the use of violence is not outwardly expressed, the creation of isolated communities can spawn groups that are exclusivist and potentially open to messages in which violence is advocated,” it says. “At a minimum, the existence of such mini-societies undermines resilience and the fostering of a cohesive Canadian nation.”

The report was written by the Integrated Threat Assessment Centre, which monitors threats to Canada’s national security and is composed of representatives of CSIS, the RCMP, Foreign Affairs, National Defence and other agencies.

It was circulated internally last year after Hizb-ut-Tahrir invited Muslims to a conference in Mississauga, Ont., to discuss the establishment of an Islamic caliphate. A copy of the document was recently released under the Access to Information Act.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Islamist+groups+seek+parallel+society+Canada+report/3827175/story.html#ixzz15JZMktto/quote]

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Islamist+groups+seek+parallel+society+Canada+report/3827175/story.html#ixzz15JZBe8Be

[Melanie_]

How many "hard line Islamists" are we talking about here? Sure there are extremists, but this is a tempest in a teapot. You could compare this to the Westboro Baptist Church, and Fred Phelps. Just a nutjob trying to advance his own nutjob agenda.

[Moonlight Graham]

How many "hard line Islamists" are we talking about here? Sure there are extremists, but this is a tempest in a teapot. You could compare this to the Westboro Baptist Church, and Fred Phelps. Just a nutjob trying to advance his own nutjob agenda.

True enough. 2% of Canadians are Muslim, and a much smaller portion of that would consider themselves Islamists.

"Islamists" can do as they wish, but if they break the law they will go to jail.

[maple_leafs182]

I'm sick of people always demonizing Islam.

which do not advocate terrorist violence but promote an ideology at odds with core Western values.

Please tell me what our values are.

As I see it we think it is okay to go into other countries and kill innocent people, we think it is okay to run sweatshops in other countries, we think it is okay for mass starvation to continue and we really don't give a fuck about the planet/environment.

All western society cares about is money, we bend over backwards for the banks for they are the money masters. Banks are the pilers of our economy and our society, we must do all we can please them for if they fall, we all fall.

[bush_cheney2004]

How many "hard line Islamists" are we talking about here? Sure there are extremists, but this is a tempest in a teapot. You could compare this to the Westboro Baptist Church, and Fred Phelps. Just a nutjob trying to advance his own nutjob agenda.

Yep....scary to think that 77% of Canadians are "sky god" Christians!

[Melanie_]

Yep....scary to think that 77% of Canadians are "sky god" Christians!

I doubt that statistic... 77% seems pretty high to me. But, if 77% of Canadians are sky god Christians, we really have nothing to fear from Muslims.

[dre]

"Islamists" can do as they wish, but if they break the law they will go to jail.

BINGO.

[dre]

I doubt that statistic... 77% seems pretty high to me. But, if 77% of Canadians are sky god Christians, we really have nothing to fear from Muslims.

Well that statistic is in line with other polling data Iv read when you ask people which religion they belong to. The things Canadians are not very religiose by nature, and the same person who answers "Roman Catholic" when asked that question by a pollster may have never been inside a roman catholic church, may have never partaken in any RC rituals, and so on.

[bush_cheney2004]

I doubt that statistic... 77% seems pretty high to me. But, if 77% of Canadians are sky god Christians, we really have nothing to fear from Muslims.

Still, a parallel society of Christians appears to be quite acceptable.

[scribblet]

IMO there are more hard line Islamists than many would care to believe, certainly a lot more, and more to be feared than the Phelps crew, as abhorrent as they are. I have read estimates of about 10% which is a lot...

A parallel society would be one living within their own boundaries includingSharia law, and yes we know much of that is against our laws, but there is evidence that they are moving towards this and as said, it can foster extremism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11182225

Former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has described radical Islam as the greatest threat facing the world today

http://www.globalpolitician.com/22337-terror

For that evening a BBC Radio 4 Documentary followed by a BBC2 Newsnight documentary about radicalisation in Britain by Muslim extremists were broadcast - highlighting the fact that Hizb ut Tahrir is directly linked to gang violence and other crime across the UK. Exposing Hizb ut Tahrir as a group going to great lengths - in terms of propaganda expense and national media coverage - to both brainwash Britain's youths and present itself as a holier-than-thou group of non-violent political activists.

The evidence on show (mere tip of the iceberg) included a minor source from the VIGIL anti terror network (of which I am the British spokesperson) explaining how the group goes about radicalising Britain's youth and how the group has a dual recruitment policy to recruit thugs (as their future foot soldiers, set to impose their Caliphate by force) and students (who will get careers which will provide their funding and governance). Also, powerful evidence from ordinary British Muslims who have suffered at Hizb ut Tahrir's hands, either in their attempted takeover of cash-cow mosques or in getting in their way at universities and other soft radicalisation targets (these include prisons and

schools).

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,467360,00.html

ermany's Muslim population is becoming more religious and more conservative. Islamic associations are fostering the trend, particularly through their work with the young -- accelerating the drift towards a parallel Muslim society.

[dre]

Still, a parallel society of Christians appears to be quite acceptable.

Youd have to look at what a parallel society would consist of.

Is it a bunch of people with a common religious or ethnic background moving to the same community? That seems ok to me. In a perfect world I guess I would rather NOT see ethnic balkanization, but I wouldnt want to live in a society with laws to stop it either.

If however it means that these communities would have their own laws that violate our constitutional or criminal laws then Im completely opposed to that.

Ethnic and religious Canadians can do whatever the hell they want whether their muslims, christians, draft dodgers, or UFO enthusiasts for that matter. If they want cluster together so be it. But if they break the law they need to go to jail.

[bush_cheney2004]

...If however it means that these communities would have their own laws that violate our constitutional or criminal laws then Im completely opposed to that.

Indeed...as the constitution already instantiates such "balkanization", be it Catholics, Protestants...or the French language. Hell, what difference would a few "Islamists" make? They already have Charter rights....which can trump the "law".

Edited November 15, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[charter.rights]

Youd have to look at what a parallel society would consist of.

Is it a bunch of people with a common religious or ethnic background moving to the same community? That seems ok to me. In a perfect world I guess I would rather NOT see ethnic balkanization, but I wouldnt want to live in a society with laws to stop it either.

If however it means that these communities would have their own laws that violate our constitutional or criminal laws then Im completely opposed to that.

Ethnic and religious Canadians can do whatever the hell they want whether their muslims, christians, draft dodgers, or UFO enthusiasts for that matter. If they want cluster together so be it. But if they break the law they need to go to jail.

How about someplace like this?

Bountiful, British Columbia

And of course they have totally destroyed Canadian law and culture.....

Edited November 15, 2010 by charter.rights

[Shady]

Usually parallel societies are stagnant, distant, and significantly less prosperous. One just has to look at Canada's native communities.

[Bonam]

Usually parallel societies are stagnant, distant, and significantly less prosperous. One just has to look at Canada's native communities.

That would of course be the point, as violence brews more easily in stagnant and un-prosperous societies.

[Peter F]

That would of course be the point, as violence brews more easily in stagnant and un-prosperous societies.

So its us against the stagnant and unprosperous! Their stagnation and unprosperity is a threat! God save us from the Amazonian Tribes!

[Bryan]

How many "hard line Islamists" are we talking about here? Sure there are extremists, but this is a tempest in a teapot. You could compare this to the Westboro Baptist Church, and Fred Phelps. Just a nutjob trying to advance his own nutjob agenda.

Phelps and co. wave signs and says insensitive words. They're annoying, but not dangerous -- and they're the worst of the worst when it comes to extreme Christian groups. Compare that to the kinds of things Muslim extremists do (bombings, beheadings, flying planes into buildings, etc), and it's obvious why "hard line Islamists" have to be taken very seriously and monitored very closely.

[William Ashley]

This is disturbing and I suppose a reality we may have to face..

hardline Islamist groups want to build a “parallel society” in Canada, which could undermine the country’s social cohesion and foster violence. ~~~~ Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which do not advocate terrorist violence

ideology at odds with core Western values.

This didn't read right.

What exactly are western values. When I saw this I was like is this another way of saying NAZI values? === only now you can apply this to muslims instead of jews.

If you didn't get it Muslims are a part of western society, they have been in Canada for 40 years now, and I cannot recall a single executed plot against Canada ever. Canada is suppose to be a society, re the charter, that allows religious, thought, belief, and conscious, in pursuit of life, liberty, and security.

It actually is quite disturbing this so called intelligence brief targets a religious organization, as you state DOES NOT FOSTER TERRORIST VIOLENCE. Anywhere the word terrorist is used you can omit that word to see what is actually going on, as the word has lost all context with its broad application.

Muslim Brotherhood

is an Islamist transnational movement and the largest political opposition organization in many Arab states,

Suddenly this seems politically motivated.

People are suppose to have the right to free association.

What are these so called non western values. For instance suffrage for women wasn't a right until the last century, still there instead of a sex barrier is an economic barrier to rights in the west. This fascist ideology isn't any better, and people both men and women have a right to decide if they support the other sex involved in elections. They have that right, it doesn't have to be right for them to have it, and if that thought isn't against the law WHO CARES.

You can not like someone beliefs and choose not to associated with them. Society has the right to form its values, that is democracy. Using the state apparatus to suppress free will is a form of totalitarianism. People have the right to independence, the right to voice against that tends to end on the libel and harassment side.

I don't like how the national integrated threat unit, is policing values rather than acts, if they arn't illegal acts. In our western society, we have the right to independent thought, and are suppose to have freedom from politically motivated abuses by the system that are done contrary to the laws and notions of society freedom and goodwill.

If western values are totalitarian, than the Muslim brotherhood is more free than the west - and yes both are likely totalitarian. If they aim to limit the practices of others.

People have the right to form their own communities, forced indoctrination is a worse social value than isolationism. Isolationism can actually be respectful. If it is a legal issue make it that otherwise harassing and slandering groups like these is totally inappropriate, and criminal - and when done by the government itself create an illegitimate, undemocratic administration. And it is highly unfortunate that the government does things like that.

These targetted attacks on lawful society in Canada are just a sign of the level of corruption manifest in the Canadian National Security apparatus.

It is clear they need those extra votes.

Edited November 15, 2010 by William Ashley

[Keepitsimple]

I'd like to THINK that it's a tempest in a teapot but it disgusts me that a family like the Khadr clan was allowed to set up shop in Canada.......and I would think that they are not the only family with serious anti-Western views. I think it's to Canada's health and benefit that we find ways of keeping people like the Khadrs out of Canada in the first place and if they've been allowed into Canada or God forbid, granted citizenship under false pretences, to strip them of their status and send them packing. We've taken some steps in changing our Citizenship Guide to emphasize Canada's committment to individual rights and the separation of Church and State.....and to point out that it is the RESPONSIBILITY of citizens to respect those rights. What a tough job though....finding that balance that keeps only the bad guys out without unnecessarily condemning others. That's why we need acknowledge the need for vigilence and not bury our heads in the sand or simply wring our hands....or as many would do - play the racism card at the drop of a hat. We need to take small but incremental steps when appropriate and not over-react. One only need to look at England or Denmark to see what COULD happen.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[Sir Bandelot]

"Islamists" can do as they wish, but if they break the law they will go to jail.

BINGO.

Until they change the law...

[charter.rights]

Until they change the law...

Is your fear that they will change the law to remove the Anglo European male privilege that exists in this country?

[Sir Bandelot]

Is your fear that they will change the law to remove the Anglo European male privilege that exists in this country?

Not really, that would be a good thing to change, if it existed. But they might achieve sharia law as part of the official legal system. And they could do it entirely by legal means. By getting their representatives democratically elected. First step would be to create unified communities, where the vast majority are like-minded. Then elect a few MP's...

Edited November 15, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[scribblet]

Right on about the Khadrs, a great example of people not adhering to Canadian values, which by the way for those who seem to be unaware do not include, jihad, beheadings, fatwas honour killings, suicide bombers, stonings, hanging homosexuals etc. etc. A separate society outside of Canadian culture and values will eventually lead to additional requests for changes to our laws in order to accommodate Sharia

BTW, the reason Canada doesn't go after the people of Bountiful is because they believe prosecuting them wouldn't pass the charter, so if Muslims do take other wives, they probably couldn't prosecute them either. Heck, Ontario even recognizes polygamy if the immigrant with the wives is coming from a country where it's legal - remember the Ontario welfare problem a while back.

It is not a tempest in a teapot when you look at Europe and it's problems.here's an interesting blog here http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2010/10/denmark-battle-of-values-against.html and many more from Europe where their problems are far more pronounced than in N.A. due to demographics.

This also backs up Merkle's point about multiculturalism being a failure and for additional enlightenment check out Bill Mahar

http://www.pakistan.tv/videos-bill-maher-on-the-superiority-of-%5BEgPeiv9r-KM%5D.cfm

Edited November 15, 2010 by scribblet

[PIK]

So people are slowly realizing how screwed this country is thatnks to PET. I KNOW DOWN DEEP HIISTORY WILL TELL THE STORY HOW A SRTRONG AND FREE COUNTRY BECAME A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA , BRINGING IN ANYBODY NO MATTER HOW IT EFFECTED THE COUNTRY TO KEEP THEIR VOTERS BASE STRONG. WE NEED TO NIP THIS IN THE BUD AND STOP IT NOW. iT IS TIME FOR PEOPLE TO CHANGE THIER OWN COUNTRIES TO MAKE IT IN TO WHAT THEY WANT AND LEAVE THIS ONE ALONE.sorry for the caps did not notice , and not going to change it. lol

[guyser]

sorry for the caps did not notice , and not going to change it. lol

Next time apologize for the lack of any coherent content, not the caps .