Cell phones in Ontario classrooms

[Shwa]

But to me it's all distractions that are not needed. The technology is not going to help if we don't have proper teachers, or even to have an up to date curriculum to teach from. It's the content of what is being taught we need to focus on.

Sure, good points. But I believe we are smart enough to work on all three aspects at the same time. And updating content electronically is far more easier to manage than the antiquitated textbook system currently in place. Not to mention the vast electronic libraries that already exist at archive.org, jstor.org, EBSCO and other such academic oriented content producers.

[charter.rights]

This is an 'all your eggs in one basket' scenario. You are completely screwed if you ever lose the phone. And well, you can already access all the information to do research from your smartphone.

I'd support a strictly wifi tablet. Like one verion of the iPad which only has wifi and no way to connect to a cell network. But to me it's all distractions that are not needed. The technology is not going to help if we don't have proper teachers, or even to have an up to date curriculum to teach from. It's the content of what is being taught we need to focus on.

I agree. It is not an a"all eggs in one basket" scenario since "convergence" means that all information will be available from multiple sources.

I also agree that being controlled by the "school board's" WIFI system is a practical solution.

We are prepared for the "tools" and I'm sure a technological advancement is not going to destroy the culture.

[GostHacked]

I agree. It is not an a"all eggs in one basket" scenario since "convergence" means that all information will be available from multiple sources.

The thing is, if classrooms are already equipped with computers, there really is no need to get them on a mobile device like a smartphone.

We are prepared for the "tools" and I'm sure a technological advancement is not going to destroy the culture.

What's with the quotations?

It will surely change the current culture. And no we are not prepared for the tools. Technology has been advancing at such a fast pace, that when you get a device it's already out of date. We need to slow down the pace at which technology grows and how we use it. We look at it as if its the answer to everything. We really need to scale it back in the schools. And I am really only talking about grade schools. Like grades 1 to 6.. or 8....

You are going to find yourself with many who can read, but can no longer write. I use computers extensively myself, my penmanship is utter trash now. And I do actually find it difficult to write certain things because of the computer. All I do is type.

It can improve literacy rates as long as it's english or a real language and not OMG HAI BBL LOLS n Where R U.

Someone in the thread mentioned that basic math skills could be lost because the computer does it all. And when it breaks, what you gonna do!?

[GostHacked]

Sure, good points. But I believe we are smart enough to work on all three aspects at the same time.

We can't seem to keep weapons or drugs out of the schools, what makes you think this will actually be effective?

And updating content electronically is far more easier to manage than the antiquitated textbook system currently in place. Not to mention the vast electronic libraries that already exist at archive.org, jstor.org, EBSCO and other such academic oriented content producers.

Indeed, in that sense I am with you. It is easier to update an electronic database than a book. But if we have computers in the class already, then what exactly is the need for a smartphone? Also the information can easily be manipulated by another. Content can be changed so fast that last weeks info is now out of date.

Did you do the assignment due today on topic A.

I did.

Did you do it based on the new information in Curriculum Update V4.5693287 that was released 2 days ago?

No.

Fail. (sure it's a way out there scenario but possible I guess)

[Shwa]

The thing is, if classrooms are already equipped with computers, there really is no need to get them on a mobile device like a smartphone.

For limited use without extensive need to calculate (or be plugged in) smartphones are ideal as content delivery devices. Smartphones or better, some sort of cheap tablet or e-reader.

It will surely change the current culture. And no we are not prepared for the tools. Technology has been advancing at such a fast pace, that when you get a device it's already out of date. We need to slow down the pace at which technology grows and how we use it. We look at it as if its the answer to everything. We really need to scale it back in the schools. And I am really only talking about grade schools. Like grades 1 to 6.. or 8....

Of course it will change the current culture, not by any terrifying degree, but through progressive change that can be managed incrementally as the tech changes. No one we require is saying bleeding edge technology, so obsolescence is factored into the picture like any other learning tool or method. Schools can come under enterprise management systems, in fact most of them likely do already.

You are going to find yourself with many who can read, but can no longer write. I use computers extensively myself, my penmanship is utter trash now. And I do actually find it difficult to write certain things because of the computer. All I do is type.

Write in ink for what purpose? Sign ones name? Who actually uses pen and paper much these days anyway? I think advanced computer training with rudimentary penmanship skills is where we are headed. But I wonder if the same sentiment was expressed when typewriters were rolled out...

Someone in the thread mentioned that basic math skills could be lost because the computer does it all. And when it breaks, what you gonna do!?

Get another one. What did we do when lawnmower broke? I didn't revert to a scythe, I got it fixed or got another one. But I am sure that someone who can do math on a computer will be able to transfer tha symbolic representation into other ways, especially those with practical math skills. It is a teach tool, not a container.

[Shwa]

We can't seem to keep weapons or drugs out of the schools, what makes you think this will actually be effective?

Multi-tasking? We can still try and keep weapons and drugs out of the schools. But who knows, perhaps advanced teaching tools might make for advanced morality? (I'm kidding, I'm kidding!)

Indeed, in that sense I am with you. It is easier to update an electronic database than a book. But if we have computers in the class already, then what exactly is the need for a smartphone? Also the information can easily be manipulated by another. Content can be changed so fast that last weeks info is now out of date.

Sure there are risks to be mitigated and new rules to be devised, like any management scheme. And the way in which thess risks and rules are managed might change the ways in which we think of "education" including the use of jargon and pidgin language and other methods we are so familiar with. But that is like anything else that has changed from one era to another. The human reaction to these changes hass been more or less the same and I suppose there is some comfort in that.

[charter.rights]

Someone in the thread mentioned that basic math skills could be lost because the computer does it all. And when it breaks, what you gonna do!?

I don't believe that calculators hurt our basic math skills and in fact I know from personal experience both with myself and my now adult children that it actually advanced their math skills and range, despite the naysayers back then that thought it would destroy culture and reduce children to bumbling idiots.

This is no time for chicken little fear mongering. We are just getting better and more proficient at accessing information that was previous unavailable to the average Joe. And having that knowledge and acess makes us smarter, not dumber.

[bjre]

Write in ink for what purpose? Sign ones name? Who actually uses pen and paper much these days anyway? I think advanced computer training with rudimentary penmanship skills is where we are headed. But I wonder if the same sentiment was expressed when typewriters were rolled out...

The calculator makes kids lost their ability in arithmetic.

The computer automatically spelling checking and sound recognizing technology will make kids lost their ability in spelling.

The mobile communication at hand will makes kids lost writing ability other than copy / send / paste.

More and more time spent on learning easy "technology" of countless shallow knowledge, like how to use some particular software, will make kids lost time to learn more deep more basic principles that could support them to a high level.

But who cares, politicians care only money and tax. they don't care if the kids will become silly and silly. How many Canadian kids get award in international competitions? how many patent Canada applied for each year? I think the number will decline further.

[bjre]

I don't believe that calculators hurt our basic math skills and in fact I know from personal experience both with myself and my now adult children that it actually advanced their math skills and range, despite the naysayers back then that thought it would destroy culture and reduce children to bumbling idiots.

When I was in elementary school, all my classmates can calculate 85*85 in one second, because 85 * 85 = 7225, 8*9=72, 5*5=25, you can calculate 55*55=3025 in one second with the same method. now I never meet any kid know this. an easy 532654 * 43767 can take a kid here more than 10 times more time than kids in my time and make lots of mistakes if you don't give them a calculator.

[eyeball]

It's possible, but completely impractical. It's easier to control the content on the school computers simply because they can control the flow of information to the computer via policies on the network. Very hard to do that with a mobile device like a cell phone, unless they are neutered in a sense to only allow them to connect at the schools wifi, hen you have control.

That's what I meant, somehow neuter them from contacting what they want in the outside world when the teacher wants their attention on something relevant to the curriculum.

Well the trend has been that we are always looking at a screen and not each other. I mean you have 20 kids in a class communicating with each other through the devices when they are sitting right beside one another. It does not encourage much real solid and meaningful interaction between the students and the teachers.

If all they're being used for is passing notes or answers to tests then by all means jam them. I can't believe McGuinty is advocating such a frivolous use as that.

[capricorn]

Very hard to do that with a mobile device like a cell phone, unless they are neutered in a sense to only allow them to connect at the schools wifi, hen you have control.

Cell phone jamming is presently illegal in Canada except for law enforcement authorities that have applied for and received authorization. I suppose the school boards could ask for an authorization but then where do you draw the line about who can obtain one.

Cellphone jamming principal forced to retreat at B.C. high school

The battle between students and teachers over the use of cellphones in schools reached new heights in B.C. when a school principal installed an electronic jamming device to stop the ring tones, the chatter and the text messaging.

Steve Gray, the principal in Port Hardy Secondary School on the north coast of Vancouver Island, was frustrated that a cellphone ban in his school wasn't working.

"We banned them a couple of years ago and that doesn't seem to have stopped the problem," Gray told CBC News on Monday.

"When there are cellphones in use, there is a constant background of 'Please put your cellphone away. Please give me your cellphone,'" Gray told CBC News.

So about a month ago he went online and bought a device from China to jam the signals.

---

"Many students said, 'Yeah, you have done the right thing,'" said Gray.

Many others, however, were irate, and on Thursday a group of students refused to return to class after lunch, claiming their rights had been taken away, said Gray.

The students informed the principal the jamming device was illegal in Canada, and Gray had to pull the plug.

Now he's back to the frustration of an ineffective cellphone ban.

"It's not easy to enforce, because, you know a cellphone in your pocket, it's impossible to know it's there, and it's always on, always ready to be used," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/03/31/bc-cellphone-jamming-highschool-port-alberni.html

Once students are provided a liberty, it becomes a question of "rights". Today's youths are more militant when it comes to exercising and protecting their rights. Just ask any parent.

[Shwa]

The calculator makes kids lost their ability in arithmetic.

Not where it counts.

The computer automatically spelling checking and sound recognizing technology will make kids lost their ability in spelling.

How about grammar? Are you as concerned about that? Apparently not...

The mobile communication at hand will makes kids lost writing ability other than copy / send / paste.

Yes, and we will develop hardware ports directly into their brains. Then plug them into the network, which will then be known as "the collective." Then we will add weird eye pieces, some deep sea suits that have a steampunk feel to them, and some cool energy shield hardware. We will them use our taxes to "assimilate" them into this collective and tell them that "resistance is futile" if they complain.

More and more time spent on learning easy "technology" of countless shallow knowledge, like how to use some particular software, will make kids lost time to learn more deep more basic principles that could support them to a high level.

Ah ha, not so. You see by making things easier they will have more time to spend on "high level" things like going to see the guru on top of the mountain to learn about all the "deep more basic principles." I mean, really, who needs readin' and writin' when there are deep and more basic principles to be had.

But who cares, politicians care only money and tax. they don't care if the kids will become silly and silly.

And here I thought silliness was just part of being a kid. Damn. Next time I am putting them in a large military like school where they can recite multiplication tables hour after hour until burned into their memory. Nothing beats silliness like learning by rote eh?

How many Canadian kids get award in international competitions? how many patent Canada applied for each year? I think the number will decline further.

You mean on a per capita basis? We hold our own fairly good I think.

[Wild Bill]

Ah ha, not so. You see by making things easier they will have more time to spend on "high level" things like going to see the guru on top of the mountain to learn about all the "deep more basic principles." I mean, really, who needs readin' and writin' when there are deep and more basic principles to be had.

Sounds good in theory but I'm not sure about the real world. I agree that there is a difference between rote learning arithmetic and understanding the principle of the Binomial Theorem. I just don't know for sure if you're correct that schools ARE teaching those "deep more basic principles"!

Consider that most schools here in Ontario are fighting each other over an acute shortage of science and math teachers. Such a situation does not imply that the typical student is being well taught in those subjects.

When someone claims to understand the higher aspects of science or mathematics sometimes he's telling the truth. Sometimes he's not. He's peddling mysticism, like creationism or astrology. He's blowing smoke to keep you from finding out he really doesn't know his stuff!

This is a popular delusion. Learning higher math is hard but anyone with hair in his ears can "Use the Force, Luke! Throw away that high tech expensive targeting system and just go with your feelings!"

I think there is a place for both approaches. Rote learning in the early grades seems more suited to the way a child's mind works. It implants enough of the basics of arithmetic and phonics to make understanding "deeper principles" possible at a later age!

There is a perception out there that we tend to abandon the rote learning AND give short shrift to those "deeper principles" as well! My own experience has been that way, at least in my own children's schools.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Wild Bill

[PIK]

Now after what happened in BC ,they cam learn step by step how to drug a girl and gang rape her. And the liberals laugh at getting tough on crime, and BC being the most leftist part of the country, it makes you wonder if it has anything to do with the attitudes out there. This should make everyone puke and maybe start getting people to be putting some real thought in what goes on in this country.

[eyeball]

Now after what happened in BC ,they cam learn step by step how to drug a girl and gang rape her. And the liberals laugh at getting tough on crime, and BC being the most leftist part of the country, it makes you wonder if it has anything to do with the attitudes out there. This should make everyone puke and maybe start getting people to be putting some real thought in what goes on in this country.

Trying to link leniency towards gang rape with being leftish and from BC is what makes me puke.

Good ol' boys everywhere have been drugging girls and raping them for generations and you can be quite certain right-wingers have been every bit as involved as anyone and maybe even more so. It's certainly more disgusting when right-wingers do it. Given their holier than thou attitudes they should know better.

[Shwa]

Sounds good in theory but I'm not sure about the real world. I agree that there is a difference between rote learning arithmetic and understanding the principle of the Binomial Theorem. I just don't know for sure if you're correct that schools ARE teaching those "deep more basic principles"!

Consider that most schools here in Ontario are fighting each other over an acute shortage of science and math teachers. Such a situation does not imply that the typical student is being well taught in those subjects.

When someone claims to understand the higher aspects of science or mathematics sometimes he's telling the truth. Sometimes he's not. He's peddling mysticism, like creationism or astrology. He's blowing smoke to keep you from finding out he really doesn't know his stuff!

This is a popular delusion. Learning higher math is hard but anyone with hair in his ears can "Use the Force, Luke! Throw away that high tech expensive targeting system and just go with your feelings!"

I think there is a place for both approaches. Rote learning in the early grades seems more suited to the way a child's mind works. It implants enough of the basics of arithmetic and phonics to make understanding "deeper principles" possible at a later age!

There is a perception out there that we tend to abandon the rote learning AND give short shrift to those "deeper principles" as well! My own experience has been that way, at least in my own children's schools.

There was no theory there WB, I was just joking. My oldest holds an engineering degree in physics. It can be done. No one is saying 'replace' the traditional methods. At least not yet. Eventually, but not just yet.

[P. McGee]

McGuinty now seems to have backtracked on this somewhat:

“First of all, texting or the use of cell phones to socialize during class is a distraction and it does not belong in a classroom, period. Secondly, Speaker, we trust teachers and boards and parents to make the right call when it comes to ever changing technologies. If those technologies can help our students learn, that is a good thing. If they don't, if they are a distraction, then they should not be in the classroom. Simple as that."

http://www.premier.gov.on.ca/home/index.php?Lang=EN

I'm not sure what he was trying to achieve when he first made his musings on the topic public, other than to indicate that no province-wide ban on phones in schools is likely and perhaps to give the impression that he is hip to the world of technology. He made a similar production about "mixed martial arts", also making himself look a bit silly in an effort to seem hip.

Smart phones are one way to get on the internet, but what makes them any more practical in a classroom environment than a laptop? The fact that some (but not all) students have them already? At this time the distraction factor seems more significant than any possible teaching benefit. I agree that a blanket ban is probably overkill though, there shouldn't have to be a problem with having a phone at school if it's not a distraction.

[Alta4ever]

I don't believe that calculators hurt our basic math skills and in fact I know from personal experience both with myself and my now adult children that it actually advanced their math skills and range, despite the naysayers back then that thought it would destroy culture and reduce children to bumbling idiots.

I guess you haven't had the experience of watching someone in retail count back change when the till isn't working, they simply cannot do it. On one occasion the clerk could not even figure out the tax on the purchase with the calculator.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Topaz]

You know after reading each comments I reflected back to my high schools days and we could get into trouble just bring candy in to class from our noon lunch. The history teacher didn't like that, but it got kinda boring listening to those 33rpm's about WW2! candy in my generation, cell phones in this generation, quite a bit of difference.

[bloodyminded]

Now after what happened in BC ,they cam learn step by step how to drug a girl and gang rape her. And the liberals laugh at getting tough on crime, and BC being the most leftist part of the country, it makes you wonder if it has anything to do with the attitudes out there. This should make everyone puke and maybe start getting people to be putting some real thought in what goes on in this country.

Get serious. You think rapes aren't occurring--this very moment--in rural Alberta?

[charter.rights]

Smart phones are conveniently small and you don't necessarily have to be in the vicinity of a WIFI connection to connect to the internet (web cell service is required, of course). BUT that means that a kid could be on a field trip looking at a flower, connect to the web on their smart phone and find all about the flower in an instant. I think smart phones could have a practical application in the classroom.....

[Wilber]

I guess you haven't had the experience of watching someone in retail count back change when the till isn't working, they simply cannot do it. On one occasion the clerk could not even figure out the tax on the purchase with the calculator.

Ya, I love it when I have to tell them how much change they owe me.

[wyly]

Smart phones are conveniently small and you don't necessarily have to be in the vicinity of a WIFI connection to connect to the internet (web cell service is required, of course). BUT that means that a kid could be on a field trip looking at a flower, connect to the web on their smart phone and find all about the flower in an instant. I think smart phones could have a practical application in the classroom.....

yup, it's not kids that are out of touch it's the older generations that are falling behind...because it's new older people never accept it, no different than my parents were with me, if they it was different from their day it must be wrong...I used to battle with my kids over technology but I have to admit I was wrong...those who do not keep up get left behind, just as it's always been...

[Michael Hardner]

I guess you haven't had the experience of watching someone in retail count back change when the till isn't working, they simply cannot do it. On one occasion the clerk could not even figure out the tax on the purchase with the calculator.

Perhaps that's a problem, or ... maybe arithmetic follows Latin, blacksmithing and mechanical skills as talents that aren't needed anymore ?

[Alta4ever]

Smart phones are conveniently small and you don't necessarily have to be in the vicinity of a WIFI connection to connect to the internet (web cell service is required, of course). BUT that means that a kid could be on a field trip looking at a flower, connect to the web on their smart phone and find all about the flower in an instant. I think smart phones could have a practical application in the classroom.....

You know what we did, ask the teacher. If they didn't know you would make a rough sketch and look it up in a book/the internet when we got back. Skills that are being lost, which are very important. What happens when the technology isn't there to help, I'll tell you nothing because these students won't know what to do and how to solve their problem.