Honour Killings, Genocide and Stonings

[scribblet]

I just saw this and was upset, I suppose the picture is supposed to do that - the world united against this - I don't think so, does the world really care.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/07/honour-killings-the-genocide-that-muslims-inflict-on-themselves/

More developments in the case of Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, the Iranian woman set to be stoned to death for the crime of “adultery” (even though her husband already had died at the time of her allegedly “illicit” relationship): This week, it was revealed that, even as she awaits on death row, Ashtiani got 99 lashes for the further crime of appearing in a Times of London photo without a headscarf. (The Times now concedes that the photo actually was of another woman — adding an additional level of surreal horror to what already was a singularly pitiful case.)

The only possible good news to be wrung from this horror is the fact that the case has united the whole of the civilized world — including Europe’s otherwise morally relativistic intellectuals — in unanimous condemnation of Iran’s Medieval theocracy. Even the most devout Euro-pacifist can only be horrified at the prospect of this regime possessing a nuclear weapon.

And yet Ashtiani is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to “honour killings” in Muslim societies. An astonishing investigative report in Britain’s Independent by celebrity left-wing journalist Robert Fisk (who has taken a laudable break from his America-bashing beat) concludes that the usual UN figure of 5,000 honour killings per year worldwide is off by a factor of at least four — and that the real number is about 20,000. Not all of the killers, it should be emphasized, are Muslim: There are some Christians and Hindus in this mix. But the vast majority of killings take place in Muslim nations such as Pakistan, Jordan and Turkey.

Here’s one particularly awful example, recited by Fisk:

[Consider] the young woman found in a drainage ditch near Daharki in Pakistan, ‘honour’ killed by her family as she gave birth to her second child, her nose, ears and lips chopped off before being axed to death, her first infant lying dead among her clothes, her newborn’s torso still in her womb, its head already emerging from her body … She was badly decomposed; the local police were asked to bury her. Women carried the three to a grave, but a Muslim cleric refused to say prayers for her because it was ‘irreligious’ to participate in the namaz-e-janaza prayers for ‘a cursed woman and her illegitimate children.’

The Independent article contains dozens more example like this. The grisly details change from case to case, but all are animated by the repugnant notion that women are disposable possessions that can be destroyed like a lame horse or a chipped plate.

cont...

[Guest American Woman]

My daughter was just saying to me yesterday how glad she is to be an American -- to live in the United States. This is especially true for women, and when I hear about "honor killings, genocide, and stonings" it brings it home even more emphatically.

That these things are going on today, that so many women are such second-class citizens, is truly upsetting (to say the very least). How terrible. I can't even begin to imagine living under such conditions.

Hopefully the world outcry will ultimately spare Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani her fate, but sadly, I have the feeling it won't.

[kimmy]

...

Edited September 8, 2010 by kimmy

[Jack Weber]

yesyes that's terrible, but where is the condemnation for Da Joos? Did you know that Jewish women have been harrassed by ultra-orthodox Joos for not worshiping properly? Where is the condemnation?

You're all such hypocrites for criticizing Muslims but not speaking out against Da Joos.

This means you, Michiganite Woman.

-k

ps. Why don't you just admit that you're a Yooper, Michiganite Woman?

What the Eff is Joos???

[scribblet]

Wow, me too, what's up with that comment.

I was surprised to read that Fisk concludes that the usual UN figure of 5,000 honour killings per year worldwide is off by a factor of at least four. If this is so, then the world needs to speak out more forcefully.

http://www.stop-stoning.org/cases

http://www.stop-stoning.org/en/node/1309

[kimmy]

Wow, me too, what's up with that comment.

It was an attempt to parody somebody we all know. Sorry it wasn't received that way. I'll delete it and let the thread get back on track.

-k

[nicky10013]

In this case, the state sponsored killing of a woman has to do with authortiarianism and control over culture than with Islam. Different countries do it in different ways.

[DogOnPorch]

In this case, the state sponsored killing of a woman has to do with authortiarianism and control over culture than with Islam. Different countries do it in different ways.

So it's the state and not Sharia Law?

[Oleg Bach]

The SAUDIS...muslims of course - are a godless bunch of control freaks..chopping off hands - slowly bashing in a persons head with a flock of well tossed stones? AND we the idiots say - hey go ahead build a mosque as a sign of victory over the infidels - mean while the aniversary is comming up - 9 11 -------------where overr 3ooo people were holocausted (burned whole)..we are still pissed off at the Nazis but some how we forgive and forget..as for the New York mass murder - all the while some Saudi was at the controls screaming like a lunitic "god is great" - it is WE that have no honour or pride or self respect..perhaps 9 11 was just one big honour killing of the dishonourable?

[nicky10013]

So it's the state and not Sharia Law?

Yep.

[Guest American Woman]

It was an attempt to parody somebody we all know. Sorry it wasn't received that way. I'll delete it and let the thread get back on track.

-k

I think I get it .....

-Israeli Woman

[DogOnPorch]

Yep.

So, then...what is Sharia law?...in your opinion.

[bush_cheney2004]

So, then...what is Sharia law?...in your opinion.

Strippers have to wear pasties?

[DogOnPorch]

Strippers have to wear pasties?

Could well be at this rate.

[wyly]

The SAUDIS...muslims of course - are a godless bunch of control freaks..chopping off hands - slowly bashing in a persons head with a flock of well tossed stones? AND we the idiots say - hey go ahead build a mosque as a sign of victory over the infidels - mean while the aniversary is comming up - 9 11 -------------where overr 3ooo people were holocausted (burned whole)..we are still pissed off at the Nazis but some how we forgive and forget..as for the New York mass murder - all the while some Saudi was at the controls screaming like a lunitic "god is great" - it is WE that have no honour or pride or self respect..perhaps 9 11 was just one big honour killing of the dishonourable?

911 is but a fraction killed by christian USA around the world, all the terror attacks combined are a drop in the bucket compared to innocents the USA has killed...but then we aren't targeted by the USA so we don't readily see that...as long as it's some anonymous goat herder or farmer in a third world country no one really cares... Edited September 9, 2010 by wyly

[wyly]

I just saw this and was upset, I suppose the picture is supposed to do that - the world united against this - I don't think so, does the world really care.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/07/honour-killings-the-genocide-that-muslims-inflict-on-themselves/

cont...

we see barbaric acts towards women in our own country they're just not normally related to religion...and as in the case of the Picton murders the police aren't always too concerned with solving the crimes...

[Jack Weber]

It was an attempt to parody somebody we all know. Sorry it wasn't received that way. I'll delete it and let the thread get back on track.

-k

Not necessary!!!!

I got it...I was just being a smartass by using a Dave Chappelle bit as a play on words...

Edited September 9, 2010 by Jack Weber

[nicky10013]

So, then...what is Sharia law?...in your opinion.

It's a tool that can be misrepresented in multiple different ways to further one's own political cause. For example, authoritarian states use it for legitimacy, claiming it is the word of god and therefore infallible despite very much being crafted by the hand of man. They also use it to enforce the semblance of a rule of law where no rule of law actually exists. It's funny, most government bureaucrats and even high leaders in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran were actually educated outside the country. They're educated in works such as Machiavelli and know how authoritarianism works. Hilariously enough, if to prove my point even further, most of these guys are corrupt to the core. They take bribes, give favours, given leniency, aren't subject to the strict cultural controls as others and can do things like drink. If they were actual states where fundamentalism actually ruled, I would suspect the picture would be quite different than it actually is. If they really believed they were working to the ultimate holy paradise you would think they would act like it, no?

As for the term "genocide" being lumped into the middle of the topic heading, I think it's unnecessarily provocative. What's happening in some countries is indeed terrible, however, I think to lump these two things in together with genocide is another thing altogether.

Edited September 9, 2010 by nicky10013

[DogOnPorch]

It's a tool that can be misrepresented in multiple different ways to further one's own political cause. For example, authoritarian states use it for legitimacy, claiming it is the word of god and therefore infallible despite very much being crafted by the hand of man. They also use it to enforce the semblance of a rule of law where no rule of law actually exists. It's funny, most government bureaucrats and even high leaders in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran were actually educated outside the country. They're educated in works such as Machiavelli and know how authoritarianism works. Hilariously enough, if to prove my point even further, most of these guys are corrupt to the core. They take bribes, give favours, given leniency, aren't subject to the strict cultural controls as others and can do things like drink. If they were actual states where fundamentalism actually ruled, I would suspect the picture would be quite different than it actually is. If they really believed they were working to the ultimate holy paradise you would think they would act like it, no?

As for the term "genocide" being lumped into the middle of the topic heading, I think it's unnecessarily provocative. What's happening in some countries is indeed terrible, however, I think to lump these two things in together with genocide is another thing altogether.

I respect your opinion and agree with most of it. However I feel it is still putting the cart before the horse. Islam has been decapitating folks since the 7th century well before any modern dictator.

Re: genocide. I didn't start this thread.

[Shwa]

I respect your opinion and agree with most of it. However I feel it is still putting the cart before the horse. Islam has been decapitating folks since the 7th century well before any modern dictator.

Re: genocide. I didn't start this thread.

So are you saying that it is method that is at fault here, that instead of stonings and honour killings it would be more acceptable to kill them humanely with, say, lethal injection?

[GostHacked]

So are you saying that it is method that is at fault here, that instead of stonings and honour killings it would be more acceptable to kill them humanely with, say, lethal injection?

Capitol punishment = death no matter what method is used. It really does not matter how humane or inhumane it is carried out, the result is death, and that's the goal. I don't know why some methods are considered humane and others not. I don't find it humane to kill anyone, but I also believe in eye for an eye type of thing. So I am perplexed.

[DogOnPorch]

So are you saying that it is method that is at fault here, that instead of stonings and honour killings it would be more acceptable to kill them humanely with, say, lethal injection?

I said nothing of the sort. The claim is that Sharia Law has nothing to do with Islam. I disagree.

[Shwa]

I said nothing of the sort. The claim is that Sharia Law has nothing to do with Islam. I disagree.

Ah I see what you mean.

[DogOnPorch]

Ah I see what you mean.

Doubt it.

[Wild Bill]

911 is but a fraction killed by christian USA around the world, all the terror attacks combined are a drop in the bucket compared to innocents the USA has killed...but then we aren't targeted by the USA so we don't readily see that...as long as it's some anonymous goat herder or farmer in a third world country no one really cares...

Ah, I see the logic! Two wrongs make a right! What's more, since one wrong is so much greater than the other the tiny wrong has the right to do anything!

Do I understand your reasoning correctly? Or did you mean something different from what you said?