Republican wants the US to be more like Saudi Arabia

[Guest American Woman]

Do you not think that to ban a mosque from the site would be a huge insult to the memory of the Muslims who were killed by the hijackers on 9/11? Are they not American enough to be honoured or remembered or counted?

I've said many times now that I don't think there should be a ban, but that those involved in the project are doing the wrong thing by building an Islamic center and mosque there.

As for Muslims who were killed on 9-11, they will be honored and remembered at Ground Zero the same way everyone else is, so I don't know where your "huge insult to the memory of the Muslims who were killed" et al is even coming from.

[Remiel]

I've said many times now that I don't think there should be a ban, but that those involved in the project are doing the wrong thing by building an Islamic center and mosque there.

As for Muslims who were killed on 9-11, they will be honored and remembered at Ground Zero the same way everyone else is, so I don't know where your "huge insult to the memory of the Muslims who were killed" et al is even coming from.

Perhaps I missed that because I was looking through the last few posts at the time of the reply. So while it may have been inappropriately addressed to you, there are a great many people out there who should be asked that very question, because they clearly do support a ban.

[WIP]

Just a couple of comments here, regarding your comments. First of all, Cordoba Initiative is an Islamic center, and a mosque is very much a part of it.

And again, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, but that doesn't stop you from prattling on and on. Weeks ago, I realized that the outrage of a "ground zero mosque" was a fraud as soon as I checked the background info and discovered that it wasn't a mosque, and it's not even at ground zero! But being a cultural center and two city blocks away from the WTC doesn't stop vile propagandists like Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, whom you provide aid and comfort for by parroting their misleading and fraudulent claims.

This is what it says on the front page of the Cordoba House website:

Cordoba House is a Muslim-led project which will build a world-class facility that promotes tolerance, reflecting the rich diversity of New York City. The center will be community-driven, serving as a platform for inter-community gatherings and cooperation at all levels, providing a space for all New Yorkers to enjoy.

This proposed project is about promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture. Cordoba House will provide a place where individuals, regardless of their backgrounds, will find a center of learning, art and culture; and most importantly, a center guided by Islamic values in their truest form - compassion, generosity, and respect for all. http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/cordoba-house-new-york-city

"Muslim-led" that's not exactly Muslim-only like some of the right wing opportunists are trying to convey. A platform for "inter-community gatherings" now that's what they have at a Taliban or Hamas cultural center I presume. From what I have been able to find about the man in charge -- Imam Rauf, he's a Sufi Muslim cleric....that alone would cause him to be charged as an apostate in the hardline Muslim circles.

Secondly, as has been pointed out over an over, the only reason it's able to exist in that spot is because of the actions of other destructive, violent, murderous Muslims.

Which is why I consider those such as yourself, who claim to be moderates or liberals of some sort to by hypocrites. As mentioned many times previously, if as a hypothetical, a church wanted to build a Christian community center near where the Oklahoma Federal Building used to stand, would the fact that it had also suffered some blast damage disqualify a Christian organization from building on the site? Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols were Christians...or at least they considered themselves to be Christians....same difference!

Which brings me to your comments about the YMCA.

First of all, the YMCA isn't in existence in that spot due to the violent actions of other Christians.

And if it was, that would disqualify the site from being used to build a Y!

Which brings me to my second point: YMCA stands for Young Men's Christian Association, so of course it wouldn't get labeled as a Jewish enclave. By the same token, if the Cordoba Initiative were to include a Christian church, the center wouldn't be referred to as a Christian enclave.

But there are no plans for a christian church in the Cordoba Initiative, so the point you are trying to make is moot.

Yeah, that's clear as mud! As it turns out, the 92nd Street Y is a YMHA, not a YMCA, so I guess it does turn out to be a Jewish enclave, and a plot to sucker gentiles into learning more about Judaism!

I'm a YMCA member btw, and although the Y doesn't have as strong a Christian connection as it used to, our local Y has a chapel and is affiliated with area churches. But anyone can join regardless of religious beliefs or non-belief. I could just join a private gym (I rarely use the pool or other facilities), but it doesn't bother me that there is a slight religious bias because it still performs an important role in the downtown community.

[Guest American Woman]

And again, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, but that doesn't stop you from prattling on and on.

This is as far as I read.

I know exactly what I'm talking about, so I'm not interested in discussing this with someone who thinks I don't simply because they don't agree with me; especially since I couldn't help but notice that you had no problem prattling on and on.

Have a great day.

Edited August 2, 2010 by American Woman

[WIP]

I've said many times now that I don't think there should be a ban, but that those involved in the project are doing the wrong thing by building an Islamic center and mosque there.

Why not have the courage to just say you want a ban, like right wing talkers and even some politicians are doing? You bolster their arguments while trying to shield yourself from criticism of bias with that lame statement that they should assume collective guilt voluntarily.

[Guest American Woman]

Why not have the courage to just say you want a ban, like right wing talkers and even some politicians are doing?

Why don't you have the courage to just say things you don't believe? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And with that, I'll waste no more time reading your posts in this thread.....

[WIP]

Why don't you have the courage to just say things you don't believe? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And with that, I'll waste no more time reading your posts in this thread.....

More nonsense as expected! You make arguments that Cordoba House should not be built because this eyesore may qualify as an historic landmark, and some debris hit the building -- making it part of a future 9/11 holy site I presume, and you say that extremists may be there -- making it some sort of terrorist threat -- and yet you're not willing to try to stop it from being built!

[DogOnPorch]

More nonsense as expected! You make arguments that Cordoba House should not be built because this eyesore may qualify as an historic landmark, and some debris hit the building -- making it part of a future 9/11 holy site I presume, and you say that extremists may be there -- making it some sort of terrorist threat -- and yet you're not willing to try to stop it from being built!

That the place is to be called Cordoba anything is quite telling. You're aware of the significance, I assume?

[bloodyminded]

That the place is to be called Cordoba anything is quite telling. You're aware of the significance, I assume?

The same significance as naming a state "Georgia," or a province "Alberta."

[GostHacked]

That the place is to be called Cordoba anything is quite telling. You're aware of the significance, I assume?

Meh, what's in a name!??

You'd be surprised the amount of ancient Christian terms/names are used today and where and how. Many religions use ancient terms in modern times that have some sort of ancient historical significance. And sometimes they don't.

The Chrysler Cordoba 1975-1983

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Cordoba

A car availavle in Cuba, manufacturer, Cordoba.

http://www.havanacarhire.com/car-details.php?car=71⊃=16&PHPSESSID=84b022769ade6599acc77c0ee1c80bb7

Edited August 3, 2010 by GostHacked

[BubberMiley]

That the place is to be called Cordoba anything is quite telling. You're aware of the significance, I assume?

Nothing is more significant than soft corinthian leather.

[DogOnPorch]

So you two believe this mosque is being named 'Cordoba' due to the car? OK....

[kimmy]

The same significance as naming a state "Georgia," or a province "Alberta."

Maybe if Alberta had a historical meaning that translated to "The Place Where We English Took The Aboriginals Land For Our Own"...

The project has been renamed "Park 51", because naming it after the capital that Muslim invaders built on European land conquered from Christians had a symbolism that proved to be a little ... awwwwwkward.

-k

[GostHacked]

So you two believe this mosque is being named 'Cordoba' due to the car? OK....

I am hoping you are smarter than that. Because the intention was to show that Cordoba has been used many times before for many things. Chrysler has a lot of Muslims working for it, so they named that car in the same fashion this Imam is naming the new Islamic center. Now I should not need to point out the obvious that I am making a joke here.

[DogOnPorch]

As per Bubber's vid...

Although Córdoba is the name of a city in Spain, the car's emblem was actually a stylized version of the Argentine cordoba coin. Either way, the implication was Hispanic, and this theme was carried out with somewhat baroque trim inside and by using movie star Ricardo Montalban as the car's advertising spokesman. Notable was his eloquent praise of its "soft Corinthian leather" interior[3] and his Americanized stress on the second syllable of the car's name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Cordoba

[bloodyminded]

Maybe if Alberta had a historical meaning that translated to "The Place Where We English Took The Aboriginals Land For Our Own"...

Metaphorically that translation is very apt. In fact, our treatment of the natives was so profoundly bad that many of us have yet to forgive them for it.

But I know, I know....it's "political correctness" (that lazy, lazy catch-all term) to criticize us; and sober reportage to criticize the Muslims.

I mean, it's not as if the West (who loves freedom, & co & co) has ever been directly and intentionally involved in acts of massive state terrorism--recently--that make the Islamic radicals look like amateurs.

Because our terrorism is justified ("Cold War" has been the usual conventional piety, making most of the world laugh at us in fear and derision; but we're busily concocting new threats to our very existence--like the centuries-old Islamic caliphate, summoned here for our bemusement); whereas "their" terrorism is just, well, bad. Why is ours good and theirs bad? I dunno...no one has yet given me a response that doesn't smell badly of propaganda and indoctrination. If they tell you, please let me know.

[WIP]

That the place is to be called Cordoba anything is quite telling. You're aware of the significance, I assume?

You and your paranoid friends can interpret the significance of choosing "Cordoba" as a symbolic harbinger of Muslim invasion, or you can go by the track record of the organizers who view Cordoba as symbolizing the high point of enlightenment in the Muslim World, and represent a modern opportunity for improving dialogue between Muslims, Christians and Jews. You'll find exactly what you're looking for.

[DogOnPorch]

You and your paranoid friends can interpret the significance of choosing "Cordoba" as a symbolic harbinger of Muslim invasion, or you can go by the track record of the organizers who view Cordoba as symbolizing the high point of enlightenment in the Muslim World, and represent a modern opportunity for improving dialogue between Muslims, Christians and Jews. You'll find exactly what you're looking for.

I admire your ability to kiss Muslim ass. You'll be a handy ally for them in 20 years or so.

Edited August 3, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[WIP]

I admire your ability to kiss Muslim ass. You'll be a handy ally for them in 20 years or so.

Idiot alarmists are invariably chickenhawks. It often takes more courage to trust outsiders and take moderates at their word, than to assume the worst and start calling for war. The aggressive, hostile approach that you advocate for eliminates any opportunities of compromise and peaceful resolution of problems. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when people on the other side of the conflict lose confidence in a moderate approach also. At a time when the world is faced with ecological disaster, a new cold war is the last thing we need.

[DogOnPorch]

Idiot alarmists are invariably chickenhawks. It often takes more courage to trust outsiders and take moderates at their word, than to assume the worst and start calling for war. The aggressive, hostile approach that you advocate for eliminates any opportunities of compromise and peaceful resolution of problems. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when people on the other side of the conflict lose confidence in a moderate approach also. At a time when the world is faced with ecological disaster, a new cold war is the last thing we need.

Ain't that sweet.

[bloodyminded]

"The Muslims! The Muslims! The Muslims! The Muslims! The Muslims!"

It's fun watching the sniveling little cowards get their panties in such a knot.

[Guest American Woman]

"The Muslims! The Muslims! The Muslims! The Muslims! The Muslims!"

It's fun watching the sniveling little cowards get their panties in such a knot.

omg! omg! omg! They don't approve of this project, so they're Muslim hating cowards!

It's fun watching the holier than thou PC'ers when they get so sanctimonious and self righteous that they can't even see what others are saying/thinking because they're blinded by the glare reflecting off their halos.

[bloodyminded]

omg! omg! omg! They don't approve of this project, so they're Muslim hating cowards!

It's fun watching the holier than thou PC'ers when they get so sanctimonious and self righteous that they can't even see what others are saying/thinking because they're blinded by the glare reflecting off their halos.

I wasn't even peripherally directing this towards you, AW. It was directed agaisnt the anti-muslim bigot and terrorist-supporter, DogOnPorch.

So lay off me with your misdirected sanctimony.

Edited August 3, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Guest American Woman]

I wasn't even peripherally directing this towards you, AW. It was directed agaisnt the anti-muslim bigot and terrorist-supporter, DogOnPorch.

So lay off me with your misdirected sanctimony.

Ummmmm..... I wasn't peripherally directing it towards you, either; I posted it to point out that there is a very real opposite side to your view.

So chill.

[bloodyminded]

Ummmmm..... I wasn't peripherally directing it towards you, either; I posted it to point out that there is a very real opposite side to your view.

So chill.

No, it wasn't peripherally directed at me...it was pointedly directed at me.

And yes, I have so far seen exactly one perfectly opposite side to my view on this thread: the poster who says "Islam sucks" and who defends and supports terrorism.

I doubt you're in line with that perspective.