Census - Mandatory or Voluntary

[Keepitsimple]

The reason I started the poll was that contrary to the "outrage" that permeates the media, it appeared that at least half the country thought it was a reasonable idea......and the current results of our little poll seem to bear that out.

[nicky10013]

The reason I started the poll was that contrary to the "outrage" that permeates the media, it appeared that at least half the country thought it was a reasonable idea......and the current results of our little poll seem to bear that out.

Firstly, this "poll" is hardly scientific. Secondly, as the census debate has raged on, the numbers have moved away from an even split. So even that assumption has been proven wrong.

[Smallc]

Over half the country doesn't think it's a reasonable idea. It wasn't a reasonable idea no matter what a bunch of people who have no idea of the value of the census think.

[eyeball]

My question would be, if all these polls and surveys are "critical to good policy making" how come we've had such a dearth of good policy making over the last 25 years? Maybe they weren't so critical at all. Maybe they were just make work schemes for nerds and served, in the end, very little useful purpose.

Maybe that information is all that's stood between lousy policies and total collapse. In the end it could be the only real glue that's holding Canada together.

[CANADIEN]

Stockwell to the rescue (parts 1 and 2)

“All we’re saying is, people shouldn’t be threatened with jail because they don’t want to tell some unknown bureaucrat how many bedrooms they’ve got in their house,” Mr. Day told Calgary radio station QR-77 on Friday.

“And you know, even prisoners of war only have to give their name, rank and serial number.”

Now, I think we can all agree that the number of bedrooms in a house is a silly question to ask. But the comparison with prisoners of war... frankly Stockwell.

“We live in an information age where any 12-year-old kid can push any button on the Internet and find out any information he or she wants without threatening a citizen that they’re going to go to jail.”

Once again, I think most of us would agree that the threat (never enforced,btw) of jail time is out of proportion with the action (not filing a census form). But guess what, Stockwell, where do you think the information the 12-year old can access comes from? Thanks btw for pointing one of the reasons for the importance of the census - it provides statistical information that Canadians can access to study and understand our country, or to measure the actions of our government.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-try-hogans-heroes-defence-in-census-feud/article1650083/

Edited July 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[Smallc]

Now, I think we can all agree that the number of bedrooms in a house is a silly question to ask. But the comparison with prisoners of war... frankly Sotckwell.

I thought so too, but according to officials with the City of Vancouver, it's actually a very important question in terms of social planning.

[Alta4ever]

Funny you should ask why that information is needed. The number of rooms in a house is very indicative of spending patterns and wealth. When you have a collection of homes in one area with fewer rooms and a smaller square footage, you know where certain social programs can be directed. As for the US....the social policy focus is quite a bit smaller in your country than it is here.

If they own the homes why do they need a social program?

[Smallc]

If they own the homes why do they need a social program?

Believe it or not, people who own homes can be poor. I'm only going by what the City of Vancouver said.

[CANADIEN]

Stockwell to the rescue (part 3)<

If you are among the groups of people who are demanding this free info I have a question for you based on past 'quizzes'. Do you think it is right that you can threaten your neighbour with jail time if she doesn't tell you if she has mental issues or not? Or who does what chores in the house?

Or whether she is a Jew or not? Don't you find that one even a little bit chilling?

This time stockwell, I am not laughing.

Let`s deal first with the misrepresentation of facts.

Individual responses are NOT communicated to the public, so how would I know anything about another person that way?

The long form does NOT ask if a person has mental health issues. The question is actually whether a physical or mental condition or health reduces a person mobility or prevents them from doing certain activities. Poorly termed question, imo, and one can debate if a question about disabilities belongs in the census (I think it does). But the question is NOT what you claim it is, Stockwell.

But this is just misrepresenting (or being unable to understand) facts.

The piece of resistence is the odious and callous stirring up of the ghost of the Holocaust.. Questions about ethnicity are tricky to define and the usefuleness of that kind of question in the census is highly debatable (ironic that some people who want the collection of data linking ethnicity with crime rates are amongst those whosupport the government move on the census, but I digress).

But nothing, NOTHING in the past or present history of census in Canada is ground for the kind of fear Stockwell is trying to evoke here. This kind of fear-mongering tactic is bad enough when someone talks about tanks on the streets; it becomes just plain despicable when it plays on memories of atrocities some are still alive to remember.

Don`t worry, Stockwell, I don`t expect you to be ashamed of yourself. I feel ashamed that you are a member of MY government. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Edited July 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

I thought so too, but according to officials with the City of Vancouver, it's actually a very important question in terms of social planning.

And it may indeed be something useful to have stats on to inform government-decision making and study the results of those decisions.

One example of why I think the idea of large consultation on the contents of the long form census is a good one. Too bad the Conervatives did not have the brains to think about that.

[kimmy]

Weren't you the guy who was defending Francophones lying on the last census?

-k

[CANADIEN]

Weren't you the guy who was defending Francophones lying on the last census?

-k

Nope. But you are obviously the one who needs to learn English, if that`s what you falsely accusing me if doing:P

[Hydraboss]

...needs to learn English, if that`s what you falsely accusing me if doing

Wanna buy an "are" or an "of"?

Yes, Kimmy needs to learn English. Indeed.

[CANADIEN]

Wanna buy an "are" or an "of"?

Yes, Kimmy needs to learn English. Indeed.

I have never hidden the fact that I am the king of typos, in particular around midnight.

But I seriously question the reading abilities of anyone who claims I am defending people when I am calling them morons and idiots.

Edited July 30, 2010 by CANADIEN

[eyeball]

Stockwell to the rescue (part 3)<

If you are among the groups of people who are demanding this free info I have a question for you based on past 'quizzes'. Do you think it is right that you can threaten your neighbour with jail time if she doesn't tell you if she has mental issues or not?

When I saw this the little snitch committees that the RCMP and our MP have encouraged in my town came to mind. These are expected to sneak around and report things like suspicious looking houses and funny odors to the authorities.

Harper is apparently trashing the census because of his Libertarian philosophical leanings?

[Alta4ever]

Believe it or not, people who own homes can be poor. I'm only going by what the City of Vancouver said.

Owning property, but poor only in the deluded minds of socialists.

[Smallc]

Owning property, but poor only in the deluded minds of socialists.

Obviously not, since I never have nor will I ever be a socialist. Believe it or not, owning property does not ensure that people have clothes to wear or can put food on the table forever. Being a liberal minded person, Im not comfortable to see them starve or go naked.

[Alta4ever]

Obviously not, since I never have nor will I ever be a socialist. Believe it or not, owning property does not ensure that people have clothes to wear or can put food on the table forever. Being a liberal minded person, Im not comfortable to see them starve or go naked.

Your not a liberal minded person. A liberal minded person would suggest that maybe they sell their over priced vancouver home and move somewhere the cost of living isn't as high.

[Smallc]

That doesn't put food on the table today. BTW, this is generally the modern accepted definition of a liberal minded person:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism

Edited July 30, 2010 by Smallc

[Mr.Canada]

Funny thing is, 168,000 people didn't complete the last census and to my knowledge nobody was charged or fined - just a few that were hounded a little bit. That seems an awful lot like a voluntary census......and now that everyone KNOWS that you won't be charged, it would become even less mandatory - or more voluntary. I just thought I'd open a poll to see where people stand. In addition, it seems that other countries are starting to make do with other means.

The short form census is mandatory and always has been. The uproar is over the long form which is sent out to 20% of Canadians which was brought in by PET in 1971, he made it mandatory and the Tories are wanting to make it voluntary.

I just think you should be clear on what you're asking, unless of coarse you're referring to the census as a whole, long and short form combined then your question is fine.

The short census should be mandatory, which it is, as this is important information. The long form is less so.

[Alta4ever]

Obviously not, since I never have nor will I ever be a socialist. Believe it or not, owning property does not ensure that people have clothes to wear or can put food on the table forever. Being a liberal minded person, Im not comfortable to see them starve or go naked.

It does put food on the table, sell the house and move somewhere you can afford the housing, instead of living in one of the highest cost of living jurisdictions in Canada, if the cost of living isn't so high you can afford food.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Smallc]

It does put food on the table if the cost of living isn't so high you can afford food.

[Alta4ever]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism

Did you read your link, it isn't liberalism, it was for social liberalism, if you read it connects liberalism to progressives and socialists. So in other words for you liberal thinking is soft form of socialism.

[Alta4ever]

What is the concept of moving to a city with a lower cost of living foreign to you.

What it says if you can't afford to live in Vancouver...MOVE!

[Smallc]

Did you read your link, it isn't liberalism, it was for social liberalism, if you read it connects liberalism to progressives and socialists. So in other words for you liberal thinking is soft form of socialism.

This is liberal thinking today and has been for a long time. It isn't socialism. Nice try though.

Here's a quote from the page:

The phrase "social liberalism" is often used interchangeably with "modern liberalism".[12] The Liberal International is the main international organisation of liberal parties, which include, among other liberal variants, social liberal parties. It affirms the following principles: human rights, free and fair elections and multiparty democracy, social justice, tolerance, social market economy, free trade, environmental sustainability and a strong sense of international solidarity.[13]

Edited July 30, 2010 by Smallc