Census - Mandatory or Voluntary

[Alta4ever]

countries with 'socialized medicine' all spend less than countries with private systems. I'm sure there are many, many more examples.

Yes because they will leave you on a bed to die like they did to my mother.

[Smallc]

Yes because they will leave you on a bed to die like they did to my mother.

Yes, because that happens so often given that countries with socialized medicine are also rated as better at preventing death.

This is (one of many) cases where government can be more efficient because it doesn't have to worry about making a profit, only serving the public.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Smallc

[dre]

Really when was the last time government ever did anything efficiently?

What you consider "efficient" is a personal subjective judgement that youre making from inside an evidentiary vaccuum.

Its impossible in most cases to compare efficiency in government with that of the private sector because they run completely different kinds of operations. A private charity simply collects donations, then arbitrarily decides how it should spend them. The government as a welfare agency on the other hand has to do a lot more than that. It needs to know who the citizens in the country are, what their income is, and it needs to have an office in every city and municipality to serve people in that area, distribute funds according to the law, guard against fraud, run education and job placement programs and so on.

A private entity has never had to do any of that stuff before, so theres no basis for such a comparison.

Not to mention... private charities would get way less donations without government in the first place... a lot of private donations to charity are not acts of altruism, they are accounting instruments, that exist because the government gives them tax exempt status meaning that they can be used to manipulate what tax bracket youre in, and save you money at tax time.

[Alta4ever]

It becomes more obvious every day that the government made the right decision:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economists-decry-census-move/article1656565/

HAHAHAH a municipal planner an economist another flawed poll I love it.

Government do you think the government should be smaller? Why no I might loose my job.

That article is just silly.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Smallc]

HAHAHAH a municipal planner an economist another flawed poll I love it.

Government do you think the government should be smaller? Why no I might loose my job.

I didn't realize that industry advisers were part of the government. You're the one who's silly.

BTW, a municipal planner can be an economist.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Smallc

[nicky10013]

I didn't realize that industry advisers were part of the government. You're the one who's silly.

BTW, a municipal planner can be an economist.

Like I said. He'd follow this government into a pit of burning lava. He's about talking points and nothing more.

[Alta4ever]

What you consider "efficient" is a personal subjective judgement that youre making from inside an evidentiary vaccuum.

Its impossible in most cases to compare efficiency in government with that of the private sector because they run completely different kinds of operations. A private charity simply collects donations, then arbitrarily decides how it should spend them. The government as a welfare agency on the other hand has to do a lot more than that. It needs to know who the citizens in the country are, what their income is, and it needs to have an office in every city and municipality to serve people in that area, distribute funds according to the law, guard against fraud, run education and job placement programs and so on.

A private entity has never had to do any of that stuff before, so theres no basis for such a comparison.

Not to mention... private charities would get way less donations without government in the first place... a lot of private donations to charity are not acts of altruism, they are accounting instruments, that exist because the government gives them tax exempt status meaning that they can be used to manipulate what tax bracket youre in, and save you money at tax time.

BS lets use the province of Alberta for example, there is one supervisor for ever 4 front line staff in the civil service. In the real world ie private enterprise the ratio is 1 to 30. Why is that, are government workers just that incompetent? I doubt it.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Smallc]

BS lets use the province of Alberta for example, there is one supervisor for ever 4 front line staff in the civil service. In the real world ie private enterprise the ratio is 1 to 30. Why is that, are government workers just that incompetent? I doubt it.

Well, the sanity that is Alberta has a needlessly huge government (the second biggest in Canada). Don't blame the rest of us for that.

[Alta4ever]

Like I said. He'd follow this government into a pit of burning lava. He's about talking points and nothing more.

You still don't get me do you, I want smaller government and will vote for what ever is the closest option to that. BTW when the liberals were in power they didn't reduce the size of government to pay down debt, they did on the backs of the provinces by reducing transfer payments. So really it was the provincial governments of the day that made the effort to reduce the debt by not increasing provincial taxes or running large deficits in the 90's. You probably aren't old enough to remember that though.

[Alta4ever]

Well, the sanity that is Alberta has a needlessly huge government (the second biggest in Canada). Don't blame the rest of us for that.

So does the federal government, and movement is a foot in our province to return small c conservatives to the legislature. Currently its polling at the same level as the stelmach's progressive socialists.

[dre]

BS lets use the province of Alberta for example, there is one supervisor for ever 4 front line staff in the civil service. In the real world ie private enterprise the ratio is 1 to 30. Why is that, are government workers just that incompetent? I doubt it.

I already explained that. The nature of private enterprise is totally different.

Your libertarian belief that the private sector can do everything better is just as dogmatic and faith-based as a socialists belief that the government should do everything. But a society based on either of those extremes would be doomed to rapid failure.

Some aspects of society require central management... some dont.

[Smallc]

BTW when the liberals were in power they didn't reduce the size of government to pay down debt,

Now, you're lying. Every department was cut, and yes, all transfers were cut. Thousands of public service jobs were cut.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7127360.ece

Edited July 30, 2010 by Smallc

[Smallc]

So does the federal government, and movement is a foot in our province to return small c conservatives to the legislature. Currently its polling at the same level as the stelmach's progressive socialists.

We'll see what happens in an actual election. Anyway, the dynamics federally won't change any time soon. Tough luck.

[Alta4ever]

Now, you're lying. Every department was cut, and yes, all transfers were cut. Thousands of public service jobs were cut.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7127360.ece

You want be to believe an article where the journalist couldn't get the facts right?

However, the federal administration of the Prime Minister, Jean Chrétien, a Conservative elected in 1993, adopted a different approach, targeting the cuts carefully and calling on different departments to make very different sacrifices.

I don't know what world your living in but if Chretien was a conservative, it certainly isn't one on this planet.

[Smallc]

You want be to believe an article where the journalist couldn't get the facts right?

Oh come now, that isn't the only article. I chose that one because it gave figures for the cuts to individual government departments. Like I said, you're lying.

[Alta4ever]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7127360.ece

I guess you missed the part in that article about Alberta hospitals which would be provincial government, and in Ontario schools, which would also fall under the provincial government having to make the cuts and hard decisions. Even if the journalist is an idiot, most of the story still proves my point.

[Alta4ever]

Oh come now, that isn't the only article. I chose that one because it gave figures for the cuts to individual government departments. Like I said, you're lying.

No i'm not and you have failed to prove anything.

[Smallc]

I guess you missed the part in that article about Alberta hospitals which would be provincial government, and in Ontario schools, which would also fall under the provincial government having to make the cuts and hard decisions. Even if the journalist is an idiot, most of the story still proves my point.

Only in your mind. From the article:

There were big cuts in fisheries (22 per cent), defence (more than 15 per cent), transport (50 per cent) and international aid (20 per cent)

[nicky10013]

No i'm not and you have failed to prove anything.

This is the equivalent of putting fingers in your ears and saying LALALALALALAL I CANNOT HEAR ANYTHING LALALALALAL

[Alta4ever]

Only in your mind. From the article:

Transport huh, I don't know about where you live but here the DOT is provincial as well. Giving international money is not bureaucracy, and smart smart smart, cut funding to protecting our fisheries further damaged the maritime economies as the Europeans moved in and over fished our cod stocks(or don't you remember) , forcing the maritime's provincial governments to deal with more loss of revenues through loss of tax base. But the liberals were oh so smart and did it on their own pffft. As I said they just passed the problem on to the provincial governments of the day to deal with.

[Alta4ever]

This is the equivalent of putting fingers in your ears and saying LALALALALALAL I CANNOT HEAR ANYTHING LALALALALAL

Really the admonishment was aimed at you and you couldn't even answer it at least small c has the brain power to attempt it unlike little nicky the cheerleader.

[dre]

Transport huh, I don't know about where you live but here the DOT is provincial as well. Giving international money is not bureaucracy, and smart smart smart, cut funding to protecting our fisheries further damaged the maritime economies as the Europeans moved in and over fished our cod stocks(or don't you remember) , forcing the maritime's provincial governments to deal with more loss of revenues through loss of tax base. But the liberals were oh so smart and did it on their own pffft. As I said they just passed the problem on to the provincial governments of the day to deal with.

I wouldnt say the liberals were "Oh so smart" really... but clearly they could have spent those budget surpluses on pet mega projects, and ideologically driven spending the conservatives did under mulroney and harper... but they didnt. So at LEAST I give them credit for that.

[Smallc]

Transport huh, I don't know about where you live but here the DOT is provincial as well.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/menu.htm What's this?

Giving international money is not bureaucracy,

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/home It sure looks like one to me.

and smart smart smart, cut funding to protecting our fisheries further damaged the maritime economies as the Europeans moved in and over fished our cod stocks(or don't you remember)

You not liking the cuts doesn't suddenly make them fake.

[Alta4ever]

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/menu.htm What's this?

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/home It sure looks like one to me.

You not liking the cuts doesn't suddenly make them fake.

Those cuts made problems for the provincial governments to deal with. Pretty easy to stroke budgetary lines out when your not responsible to the provincial governments. Chretien did the cutting the provincies did the problem solving. Had you lived the times....

[nicky10013]

Really the admonishment was aimed at you and you couldn't even answer it at least small c has the brain power to attempt it unlike little nicky the cheerleader.

The one thing I said that should've been proven was already proven by smallc when he said most countries with socialized medicine costs less than countries with private medicine.

Speaking of medicine, are you off yours? You seem a little more agitated today than usual.