Fall Election

[ToadBrother]

One doesn't need to be 'a whore for a political party' in order to be deeply involved in that party, either.

On the whole, it's naive to believe that you'll have much influence on what is actually done in absence of having some involvement in party activity. A bit, maybe, in very narrow parameters, but in broader, pholosophical ways, your letters to the editor and passionate rants to your representatives don't accomplish much beyond the venting of your spleen.

None of the parties are static. The nature of them is determined entirely by the folks who choose to support them, and not at all by those who don't.

Let me put this another way. I am authoritarian with but one slave, myself. I couldn't join the Liberals right now because Iggy is a fantastically incompetent man who shouldn't be given the leadership of a popsicle stand. How could you take even the smallest order from such a guy is beyond me. I couldn't abide joining the Tories, because Harper and his elite clique of spin doctors and advisors despise our constitution and Parliament, and I couldn't abide taking any orders from such a person. I couldn't join the NDP because, first of all, I'm not a socialist, and secondly because Layton is precisely the kind of politico I dislike the most.

I've still got my vote, and that I retain absolute freedom to place where I will. I voted Liberal last time, but this time I'll probably plunk it down on an independent. He may not win, but at least he doesn't exist simply to serve the whims of a caucus and a leadership. I'm getting to the point in my life where I don't feel I have to dedicate my vote to anyone just because we might share common ground on a few themes.

Like I said, political parties are not places to go if you want to have influence. They're places to go to be told how to vote, and sent back to the riding to act as propaganda officer for party dictates.

Edited July 2, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Molly]

Like I said, political parties are not places to go if you want to have influence. They're places to go to be told how to vote, and sent back to the riding to act as propaganda officer for party dictates.

That's quite the curmudgeonly rant... and it convinces me only that you are grumpy.

I could argue with it, I suppose, but I'd guess it's largely rhetorical anyway. You already know, and the fact is, a first-time membership doesn't buy much beyond bare welcome and a lot of junk mail, but it's telling that you presume to be the told/sent and expect not to be one of those figuring out the message, and short listing messengers.

[August1991]

It does not depend on the polls, it depends on the economy. If it continues to go reasonably well, and Canada continues to get accolades for financial mgmt in troubled times(earned or not)- he will use that as his main platform....

I agree, to a degree.

IOW, your argument works both ways: if the economy doesn't show solid signs of improvement, the opposition could pull the plug.

I believe that we'll have a Fall election (and I voted as such in this poll even though I didn't like the wording) whether Harper calls/organizes it or the opposition somehow causes it.

Duceppe will not support the government and neither will Layton, if the test is worded rightly. So, it falls to Ignatieff and I just can't see him carrying on in such a state for another year.

I reckon that either Harper or Ignatieff (for entirely different reasons/circumstances) will provoke/cause/organize an election within the next eight months or so.

----

Let's be honest. No one knows when there will be an election but if I were forced to bet money, I would go with one this Fall.

Edited July 4, 2010 by August1991

[madmax]

Holy agenda, Batman...look at those questions!

I think it was to get people talking on a polling thread for what is essentially a yes/no answer.

Take the question and choices with a grain of salt.

I believe that we'll have a Fall election (and I voted as such in this poll even though I didn't like the wording) whether Harper calls/organizes it or the opposition somehow causes it.

Yeah, me too.. the wording sucked.

But this thread has been excellent reading in spite of me creating a loaded poll.

It was in fun.... Not to be taken seriously.

But the choice of Fall/Spring... and the points made here by the in touch MLW crowd always makes up for my indescretions....

Next poll will be more direct and less of this..

Seriously, there is a combination of factors/variables in this thread that could tip the balance.

I do think the economy is going to be important in the decision making.

Ignatieff is unpredictable.

Harper is always going to go for it if he smells a majority.

Layton And Duceppe I am not sure of their reactions. Layton is scoring high. Duceppe has proven that the BQ can rally when down in the polls.

Polls/Economy/Leadership

I am going with Fall Election, even though the CPC didn't get the G20 bump they were looking for.

Now, if they had made a campaign around the Queen in English Canada..... The might have gotten rid of some of the G20 STink.

[William Ashley]

Your thoughts!!!

Are we going to the polls? Conservatives are making calls asking people to take election signs in the fall. Are they going to go for it or not?

There is something called election law. Why would the tories call an election if they loose seats?

[Uncle 3 dogs]

Having gone through three regular term-limited elections in BC, I can tell you that it isn't any better than elections called for reasons of expediency. At least in those elections, the campaigning is relatively short, whereas in BC, we now basically see a quarter of the government's term spent campaigning, which is also how it largely works in the US.

In this case, expediency weighs heavily against any election soon. While I dislike governing from polls, it does seem pretty clear that Canadians are relatively satisfied with the current situation, and all in all, we've weathered the economic storm fairly well compared to, say, the UK, whose majority Labour government basically oversaw deficit spending gone mad.

The Opposition is doing its job of keeping Harper from playing too fast and loose with the constitution, and all in all, I think Harper isn't doing that bad a job. So I think the status quo seems pretty good.

Exactly why the "fixed election date enacted by the Saskatchewan Party(read provincial Tories) is such a bad idea. Everything is pure partisanship for four years.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Uncle 3 dogs

[ToadBrother]

Let's be honest. No one knows when there will be an election but if I were forced to bet money, I would go with one this Fall.

The only way I can see a fall election at this point is if the Tories get a strong odor of a double-dip recession (the global economy seems to be teetering on that one). That would give the Tories a strong impetus, as with 2008, to make a leap for a majority, or at least keep the ground they've got before things potentially go disastrously wrong, rather than waiting until during or after the economic fallout, when Opposition parties always have the best ammunition against the government of the day.

Barring that, I see little desire by anyone for an election. The electorate doesn't want one. The Liberals, Tories and even the Bloc do not seem too enthusiastic. The NDP always want an election, it seems, ever hopeful that the next election will form the Parliament when the NDP can regain ground lost a half a century ago.

[William Ashley]

The electorate doesn't want one.

Biggest rhetorical line of the last 3 years.

I don't think that is true. Canadians want options. That is what the parties can't deliver.

[msdogfood]

Biggest rhetorical line of the last 3 years.

I don't think that is true. Canadians want options. That is what the parties can't deliver.

So ware do you think people are than??.

[Smallc]

Yeah, ware?

[Jack Weber]

Yeah, ware?

You forgot the "than",as well...

[Wild Bill]

Well, the expected has happened!

http://news.sympatico.cbc.ca/Home/ContentPosting?feedname=CBC-TOPSTOIRES-V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=senate-budget-bill

"The Senate voted to pass the omnibus budget implementation bill late Monday, avoiding an election showdown over the issue.

Senators voted 48-44 against the changes made by opposition members of its finance committee to Bill C-9 and passed the legislation without amendments."

"PukPukPuk Pugawk!PukPukPuk Pugawk!"

Chicken! Chicken! The Liberals once again 'wussed out"!

All the brave talk! All the rhetoric! All the so-called concern for being an effective Opposition!

What crap! They are a bunch of cowardly losers and deserve to stay in the electoral cellar!

It's obvious that unless they feel they can win they refuse to even play! It's not about the country or fulfilling their role in Parliament. It's simply all about them and their own fortunes.

They are supposed to be offering us an alternative BETTER than Harper! Instead, we get Barney Fife!

[Molly]

Heh! I actually agree, Bill.

As much as I loathe the Harper/CPC government, if the Liberals won't call them on the stuff that matters, they are just as bad. Complicit.

[DrGreenthumb]

The NDP always want an election, it seems, ever hopeful that the next election will form the Parliament when the NDP can regain ground lost a half a century ago.

What are you talking about? The NDP are in the best position they have been in for years. Our polls are up, the only time we've ever had more elected MP's was under Broadbent, and our share of the popular vote is at its highest ever. Layton is the most popular leader. The NDP has the most to offer ordinary Canadians, and your socialism stereotype is simple fearmongering.

[Wild Bill]

What are you talking about? The NDP are in the best position they have been in for years. Our polls are up, the only time we've ever had more elected MP's was under Broadbent, and our share of the popular vote is at its highest ever. Layton is the most popular leader. The NDP has the most to offer ordinary Canadians, and your socialism stereotype is simple fearmongering.

Well, I can't speak for your area of the country but it's a safe bet that a lot of people will have to grow very old and die off before the NDP will ever get many seats from Ontario!

You can believe whatever you want and you can make all the claims you want. It just doesn't matter! Ontarioans got burned by Bob Rae's NDP government very badly. Some of the criticism may have been unfair but again, it doesn't matter. Perception in politics is everything and that's what the overwhelming majority of Ontarioans believe.

You would have a better chance at bringing Mulroney back than getting Ontario to contribute more than a smidgen of seats to give the NDP the federal government. I suspect they would actually LOSE incumbent seats if people here were worried it would mean an NDP government in Ottawa!

You just have to live here and know people to understand this. It's a fact of life like the sun coming up in the morning and NOTHING but a LONG time is going to change it!

[ToadBrother]

What are you talking about? The NDP are in the best position they have been in for years. Our polls are up, the only time we've ever had more elected MP's was under Broadbent, and our share of the popular vote is at its highest ever. Layton is the most popular leader. The NDP has the most to offer ordinary Canadians, and your socialism stereotype is simple fearmongering.

The NDP are forever in the "best position", and time after time they end falling short. The best the NDP could hope for is that the somehow the seat counts align so they can become kingmakers, but the voters have denied them that. I don't think the majority of Canadians actually want the NDP to have any hold on the coffers. I sure the hell don't.

[Topaz]

Since Harper wants to be one step ahead of the Libs, I think he'll call the election especially since the Bill passed in the Senate and Baird boasting about the 93,000 jobs created in June. Well Baird, I'm sure those Canadians feel fortunate to have them BUT will they still be there after the stimlus is done and construction comes to a halt? The medium and small businesses are hiring part timers and students to avoid paying out benefits. Since the Feds are there for ALL Canadians until more Canadians are working there's nothing to brag about! Will Harper wait until after the Ontario election to see how that turns out before deciding?

[Jack Weber]

Well, the expected has happened!

http://news.sympatico.cbc.ca/Home/ContentPosting?feedname=CBC-TOPSTOIRES-V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=senate-budget-bill

"The Senate voted to pass the omnibus budget implementation bill late Monday, avoiding an election showdown over the issue.

Senators voted 48-44 against the changes made by opposition members of its finance committee to Bill C-9 and passed the legislation without amendments."

"PukPukPuk Pugawk!PukPukPuk Pugawk!"

Chicken! Chicken! The Liberals once again 'wussed out"!

All the brave talk! All the rhetoric! All the so-called concern for being an effective Opposition!

What crap! They are a bunch of cowardly losers and deserve to stay in the electoral cellar!

It's obvious that unless they feel they can win they refuse to even play! It's not about the country or fulfilling their role in Parliament. It's simply all about them and their own fortunes.

They are supposed to be offering us an alternative BETTER than Harper! Instead, we get Barney Fife!

I'm not sure if it's that the Liberals think they can win...I think it's more of them playing not to lose more than they've got.

But you're right,they are bunch of pathetic losers.Effectively,this country is without an opposition party.What we basically have is a rubber stamping group that puts up a phony fight,but basically goes along with whatever the current government does because it cannot offer anything better.

Increasingly,I'm of the opinion that this version of the Liberal party must be basically decimated in an election,and them rebuilt.That's what it's going to take to rid that party of the curent mindset and apparatus that allows it(erroneously) to think that Canadians will rewarm to them if given time...

Edited July 14, 2010 by Jack Weber

[ToadBrother]

I'm not sure if it's that the Liberals think they can win...I think it's more of them playing not to lose more than they've got.

But you're right,they are bunch of pathetic losers.Effectively,this country is without an opposition party.What we basically have is a rubber stamping group that puts up a phony fight,but basically goes along with whatever the current government does because it cannot offer anything better.

Increasingly,I'm of the opinion that this version of the Liberal party must be basically decimated in an election,and them rebuilt.That's what it's going to take to rid that party of the curent mindset and apparatus that allows it(erroneously) to think that Canadians will rewarm to them if given time...

I think that's quite the wrong way to look at it. What we have had since the spring of 2009 is an unofficial coalition.

[Jack Weber]

I think that's quite the wrong way to look at it. What we have had since the spring of 2009 is an unofficial coalition.

Correct...But I think it' out of the inherent weakness in the Liberal party,whether that's because of a lack of policy and/or actual agreement with the Conservatives...I suspect they would'nt do a whole lot different,if given the chance.

Dare I say,Layton is correct when he says that the Liberal and Conservative parties are basically the same party that does a sort of dance together to govern this country?

[ToadBrother]

Correct...But I think it' out of the inherent weakness in the Liberal party,whether that's because of a lack of policy and/or actual agreement with the Conservatives...I suspect they would'nt do a whole lot different,if given the chance.

I'm not so sure there wasn't some handshakes. While it's true the Liberals have never exactly been in a strong position to take the lead in an election, there's altogether too much "co-operation". Frankly I think Iggy and Harper made a pact after Harper's last near-death experience. Yes, they'll mouth off about each other, and in general probably don't even like each other, but you look at the Liberals under Dion, even weakened and demoralized, there was some trace of independence that isn't there now.

Dare I say,Layton is correct when he says that the Liberal and Conservative parties are basically the same party that does a sort of dance together to govern this country?

I wouldn't go quite that far, but certainly the rush for the political center has eroded a lot of the differences. Mind you, when have the Liberals not stood precisely for whatever would best get them elected?

Edited July 15, 2010 by ToadBrother

[waldo]

I think that's quite the wrong way to look at it. What we have had since the spring of 2009 is an unofficial coalition.

unofficial? Well then... the lil' leprechaun makes it official! In a speech today, Harper Conservative Finance Minister, Jim Flaherty, invoked "the coalition" no less than 14 times... choosing to interestingly label it as the "Michael Ignatieff-NDP-Bloc Québécois coalition".

in the coming days, be afraid... be very afraid... of Harper Conservatives failing and wailing about the tyranny and insidiousness of "the coalition".

The risk of an unnecessary election

Ladies and gentlemen, an unnecessary election would put all of this at risk. Not just Canada’s amazing accomplishments in recent years.

Not just our hard-won, world-leading status. But also our long-term growth and prosperity.

The ability to invest in the priorities of Canadians. The quality of life of our children and grandchildren.

Throughout the recession, the Ignatieff-NDP-Bloc Québécois coalition has demanded we raise taxes. Demanded we take more money from the pockets of hard-working Canadians.

Their leader has vowed to reverse tax cuts for job-creating businesses. He refuses to rule out raising the GST back up to seven percent. He refuses to rule out a carbon tax – an idea he came up with, a job-killing tax on everything, rejected by Canadians in the last election.

He even supports a new tax on iPods. (waldo edit: WTF!)

Under an Ignatieff-NDP-Bloc Québécois government, nothing would be safe. No part of our economy would be spared. No taxpayer would avoid the hit.

What’s the supposed benefit? The coalition promises massive, new, permanent entitlement programs. Programs we can’t afford. Programs that would make more room for government, and less room for growth.

We can’t afford such risky economic management. The costs are too high.

[wyly]

unofficial? Well then... the lil' leprechaun makes it official! In a speech today, Harper Conservative Finance Minister, Jim Flaherty, invoked "the coalition" no less than 14 times... choosing to interestingly label it as the "Michael Ignatieff-NDP-Bloc Québécois coalition".

in the coming days, be afraid... be very afraid... of Harper Conservatives failing and wailing about the tyranny and insidiousness of "the coalition".

which is why all the fuss over a non issue like the long gun registry, they're desperately scrambling around looking for an issue, to turn a mole hill into a mountain...

[PIK]

I say there more of a chance but the it depends on the polls. the stimlus package stops the end of March, then there's a good chance that EI will go up again and that would be bad for the Tories. He made Oct9th election day and I would think if the polls are in the Tories favour Harper will call for one, since he's the only one that has. Harper would probably wait until after the provincial election that are going to be held, for the results. I still think Harper also pushed the HST, knowing voters would be angry at the province of Ontario and vote out the Libs and in the Tories. He wants Canada blue and what better way then to peeve off the provincial voters. As an Ontarian, I never vote for the Tories because of Harris, but its time for the Libs to go.

Because of harris, what a joke that is, just come out and say you are voting for dalton. LOL Edited September 21, 2010 by PIK