Alta4ever Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 I'm completely open to what anyone says so stop putting words in my mouth. That's the whole point behind what I've been arguing. If anyone has been leaving any option open, it's me. Including the F-35. You're the one completely stuck to government policy. As I've said, you've never strayed from a position Harper has held. So, really...you've got nothing to complain about. Open ya right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 If I am the PM and I really want to do something....I will not give up until its done. I am not a fan, but that is what Harper is doing, and there is nothing wrong with it in my view. For as long as he leads this nation that's about how I want him to do it. Any of them, do it their way, and make it plain and clear why its being done that way. Once again I will say that this form of government leads to these kinds of problems. Perhaps this is all good because maybe the people will start to pay attention and figure out that if the citizens pay attention their will be done. There are more than enough citizens to impose their will on government. Consider the reality of a really pissed off public and an outside agitator leader type, better still one with an agenda. If someone was to organize themselves well enough to start a fire the incumbent movement then things would change rapidly. Get rid of every damned one of the previous group of elected representatives and start with a fresh approach. It needs to get done folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 It appears that the US has quite a few fire and forget missiles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-and-forget 'Fire and forget' was first associated with air to air combat: multiple lock-ons...fire your missiles...go home. No need to maintain the lock-on as per early Sparrows and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 (edited) That is true, but it does speak to a need for jet fighters in the future, and probably an upgrade. The only thing Im concerned about is the lack of speed from the F-35 (though it has good range). I wonder if in fact the equally expensive Typhoon wouldn't have been a better buy for what we need (despite it's lack of real stealth). It's misleading. You see top speed for a fighter advertised, say Mach 1.8 for CF-188, Mach 2 for Eurofighter, Mac 1.6 for F-35... This speed is at altitude, in thin air, with burners lit and a fuel flow in excess of 20,000 PPH. Such activity yields a net endurance of what, 45 minutes with external tanks? Such practice just isn't common. The F-22 is the only common fighter I'm aware of that has the capability of breaking the sound barrier without lighting the burner or diving, in just about any configuration. The Typhoon can only do it at altitude in Maximum Slick without the burner, no combat load. When you include maneuvering capability, and maximum G-loads at speed, the overwhelming majority of a fighters time is spent subsonic/transonic. I gawked at the F-35's price tag too, but what of: -Larger combat radius. -Thrust vectoring. -Stealth platform. -Ship 1 rolls off the line after a decade of Eurofighter service. -Excellent maintenance capacity with our neighbor next door. -Better multi-role capacity, Euro is still struggling to catch up, it's an AA platform(The same reason we got 18's instead of 15 Charlies or 14's) All that for a current price tag of $138 Million flyaway VS $111 Million for the Tycoon? I'll stomach it. Edited August 1, 2010 by Handsome Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Excuse me, somehow misread that for Japanese. And you're also playing with semantics here. With what I laid out, it was clear that what I was implying was a full scale invasion. Any threat otherwise could be dealt with by SAMs. BOMARC's, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 By a missle that can be destroyed before impact? Also, in todays international climate, the only country that could probably pull off an invasion is either Russia or China. Any type of provocation less than the invasion of the continent would be geopolitically stupid. Tell me, what country WOULDN'T team up to whoop the country that beat up on poor little Canada? Cops don't need guns, your car doesn't need seatbelts or an air bag, and heaven forbid, you certainly do not require insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 That's all you have to do for effective defense suppression. Light 'em up and shut 'em down with smart missiles like AGM-88E Advanced Anti Radiation Guided Missile (AARGM). The Americans still use pilots and balls for "wild weasel" tactics augmented by much more sophisticated ECM suites per DoP's description. Add AWACS, GPS guidance, TLAM, and stealth to nicely round things out and ...bada bing...bada boom...you have Total Spectrum Dominance. Canada will never face such an environment on its own...that's the point of collective defense....so pony up. All of this talk about what India or China or Russia could do is dwarfed by what the USA and allies have actually done...just count the air combat kills, strike missions, and subsequent unchallenged air superiority. Next step, I think, loitering platform with guided submuntions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 ...and you believe the Americans can't? Amazing. and you believe the americans are ahead of the russians in missile technology is even more amazing...the delusion continues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 and you believe the americans are ahead of the russians in missile technology is even more amazing...the delusion continues... 1. Nowhere did I state US missile technology is better than Russian. I'm saying your delusional if you don't think the Americans have the same capabilites as their potential enemies like Russia. 2. The BrahMos while impressive in its speed is for short range work... Soldier #1: So here we are with our new super cruise missile. Just wait until they get into range then BLAM-O!Soldier #2: Hmmm...they don't seem to be coming into range and radar has picked-up the launch of 100+ Tomahawks from maximum range. What should we do??? Soldier #1: Run!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 ....2. The BrahMos while impressive in its speed is for short range work... Indeed...I hope they will please let us know when all of the Russian / Indian / Chinese uber weapons actually kill something in combat...after crossing an ocean to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Indeed...I hope they will please let us know when all of the Russian / Indian / Chinese uber weapons actually kill something in combat...after crossing an ocean to use them. If it happens you will be very pissed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 If it happens you will be very pissed off. Soldier #3: Radar detects 300+ Tomahawk missile launches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 and you believe the americans are ahead of the russians in missile technology is even more amazing...the delusion continues... I believe they are. The US has had top notch tech in all areas over the Russians this day and age. The US has benefited since the end of the Cold War. Russia has not had the dollars to invest back into it's military. They could not even pay their military at certain points, so to say that their tech has advanced over the US without the dollars or people to do it with is pretty damn short sighted. And if you want to really get some of the best missiles around, you can talk to Israel. The US started the Patriot missiles, but the Israeli's damn near perfected them. It seems that they have a lot of experience with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 I believe they are. The US has had top notch tech in all areas over the Russians this day and age. The US has benefited since the end of the Cold War. Russia has not had the dollars to invest back into it's military. They could not even pay their military at certain points, so to say that their tech has advanced over the US without the dollars or people to do it with is pretty damn short sighted. And if you want to really get some of the best missiles around, you can talk to Israel. The US started the Patriot missiles, but the Israeli's damn near perfected them. It seems that they have a lot of experience with this. Ahhh....this is why you and I are chums. Good morning Gosthacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 If it happens you will be very pissed off. Gosh..I hope so...look at what a "pissed off" Israel did to Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Gosh..I hope so...look at what a "pissed off" Israel did to Syria. Nobody needs to be pissed off. We need to remember that little point. Getting pissed off gets people hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Ahhh....this is why you and I are chums. Good morning Gosthacked. I really did the tech, but I hate how it can be used incorrectly because of idiotic politics. But, again, always a fan and in awe of the tech. Also, wild weasels are pretty neat. I loved using them on the old board game of Starfleet Battles. Had to load up a shuttle or two and send them out, to prevent a ton of Kzinti heavy drones from obliterating my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Nobody needs to be pissed off. We need to remember that little point. Getting pissed off gets people hurt. ...then surrender. This, however, is not the American way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 and you believe the americans are ahead of the russians in missile technology is even more amazing...the delusion continues... I don't think you understand the tech very well. The Russians have invested more heavily in missile technology but that's simply because they were so far behind NATO in air power. Also, it's pretty clear you THINK you know more about it than you actually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 ...then surrender. This, however, is not the American way. My reply to this little nudge.....grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 (edited) My reply to this little nudge.....grow up. Meh...my reply to your nudge....pony up....or go home and let someone else do the job. Warning....sombody might get hurt...oh my! This just in....Canada surrenders to Denmark as cost saving measure. Edited August 3, 2010 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Meh...my reply to your nudge....pony up....or go home and let someone else do the job. Warning....sombody might get hurt...oh my! This just in....Canada surrenders to Denmark as cost saving measure. Pony up to what? The last great race to the bottom of an endless hole for the tax payer in Canada? Your military industrial complex represents far too much of your national spending in America. They of course need to justify their spending and protecting private venture assets around the world smacks of the taste of an empire in demise. America can no longer carry the torch into the future, all because they spent their way into oblivion. AS to letting somebody else do the job....buddy where have you been because that is EXACTLY what we have been doing since the time of the guy Pierre replaced in the 60's, good old Lestor B. Many Canadians have been hurt since then and there will likely be more to come in the future in our peacekeeping role. It is a role we designed for ourselves, one to which we have a real destiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 (edited) Pony up to what? The last great race to the bottom of an endless hole for the tax payer in Canada? Your military industrial complex represents far too much of your national spending in America. They of course need to justify their spending and protecting private venture assets around the world smacks of the taste of an empire in demise. America can no longer carry the torch into the future, all because they spent their way into oblivion. Look...Canada and friends already pissed away an empire....the Americans will do it their way thank you very much. That includes military contracts for Canada. Please send more uranium. LOL! AS to letting somebody else do the job....buddy where have you been because that is EXACTLY what we have been doing since the time of the guy Pierre replaced in the 60's, good old Lestor B. Many Canadians have been hurt since then and there will likely be more to come in the future in our peacekeeping role. It is a role we designed for ourselves, one to which we have a real destiny. Peacekeeping is political pap for the Canadian masses....General Hillier. It's more like Peacekilling, but Canadian sheep don't want to face that reality. Go count the dead from your precious self made "role" in Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan, and Haiti. Edited August 3, 2010 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Look...Canada and friends already pissed away an empire....the Americans will do it their way thank you very much. That includes military contracts for Canada. Please send more uranium. LOL! Peacekeeping is political pap for the Canadian masses....General Hillier. It's more like Peacekilling, but Canadian sheep don't want to face that reality. Go count the dead from your precious self made "role" in Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan, and Haiti. Canada has lost more troops in Cyprus than Afghanistan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Canada has lost more troops in Cyprus than Afghanistan... yep....29 years of "peacekeeping" will do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.