Prince of Pot extradited

[GostHacked]

Compared to what? The legal production, distribution, and sale of scheduled substances occurs on a regular basis but there are still problems associated with addiction, crime, rehab, etc. Decriminalization and legalization are two very different ideas.

We can look at current addictions to OTC and prescribed legal medications as well. You will find it just as much of a problem as the current set of illegal drugs.

[bush_cheney2004]

We can look at current addictions to OTC and prescribed legal medications as well. You will find it just as much of a problem as the current set of illegal drugs.

Uh-huh...that's exactly what I posted before you. But dopers don't want to live with even that much regulation or controlled distribution. I don't think the dopers care much beyond the framework of Jeff Spicoli.

[GostHacked]

Uh-huh...that's exactly what I posted before you. But dopers don't want to live with even that much regulation or controlled distribution.

Actually having some controlled distribution would be a benefit to legalization. Right now there is absolutely no control over the distribution of weed in both the US and Canada. If it was a controlled substance, it would be controlled in it's distrobution and taxed. Obviously that is not the case. Keeping it illegal employs over-abundant-never-there-when-you-need-them police officers.

For legalization:

We can reduce the cost of the penal system by not incarcerating end users.

We can reduce the cost of the legal system by not prosecuting and incarcerating end users.

I wonder why pot is so bad that you can get it prescribed to you by a doctor. I don't see that being the case for alcohol!!!If you are pro prohibition of drugs, then you are for the prohibition of alcohol as well, for all the reasons you state.

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually having some controlled distribution would be a benefit to legalization. Right now there is absolutely no control over the distribution of weed in both the US and Canada.

Quite false....medical weed is controlled in several US states.

If it was a controlled substance, it would be controlled in it's distrobution and taxed. Obviously that is not the case. Keeping it illegal employs over-abundant-never-there-when-you-need-them police officers.

It is a controlled substance...it is illegal except as prescribed by law.

For legalization:

We can reduce the cost of the penal system by not incarcerating end users.

We can reduce the cost of the legal system by not prosecuting and incarcerating end users.

That's redundant.

I wonder why pot is so bad that you can get it prescribed to you by a doctor. I don't see that being the case for alcohol!!!If you are pro prohibition of drugs, then you are for the prohibition of alcohol as well, for all the reasons you state.

Fine by me...alcohol is another and far greater scourge about the land.

[wyly]

Can we kick Rob Anders out of Canada too?

oh please yes yes yes! if only it were possible...

but would any other country take him?

[Sir Bandelot]

Fine by me...alcohol is another and far greater scourge about the land.

True but gangsterism and all the associated violence is not more preferable.

[wyly]

The data is to the contrary, there wouldn't be a massive increase in long term use of marijuana if it became legal. And most people are responsible with their substances, eg. alcohol. Given the choice to be drunk or high on the job, and get fired the vast majority will be wise enough to keep it at home.

Canada has the highest use in the industrialized world with 16.8% of Canadians age 15-64 smoke pot...compared to the Netherlands were it is legal only 6.2% smoke pot...

[bush_cheney2004]

True but gangsterism and all the associated violence is not more preferable.

Gangsters will always have a market for legal and illegal goods / services....just as long as low life is willing to buy on their terms.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada has the highest use in the industrialized world with 16.8% of Canadians age 15-64 smoke pot...compared to the Netherlands were it is legal only 6.2% smoke pot...

This stereotype was reinforced in the film "Knocked Up", wherein Canadians were depicted as unemployed stoners.

[wyly]

Amsterdam even legalized prostitution, the Dutch seem to be doing just fine. Society has not collapsed there since pot and prostitution was legalized. And for the record it's not exactly legal in Amsterdam either, but it's tolerated and there are places for that type of thing. Seems like a decent system.

it works because the Dutch are very socialist in nature, they value personal freedom more than we do, hurt no one else and you can do as you like...I don't know what you mean by not exactly legal, the pot cafe's are easy to find, smoking a joint on the street will at most get you a request to butt out from the police...

Take away the illegal element here and you could find a huge reduction in consumption. Most people do illegal things for the thrill of doing something illegal and getting away with it. Take that away, and the 'fun' goes with it. And if it means cheaper pot for me, then legalize away.

ya it's the naughty fun factor, it's like when parents tell their kids not to smoke drink or have sex...what's the first thing kids want to try? what they're told not to do...

If it is ever legalized, I may not buy it ever again, instead i'll be able to grow a few plants for my personal use. I'll probably fail at it because I suck at gardening, hell I can't even keep a cactus alive in my house. And they are the easiest plants to take care of.

my cousin got my grandmother to grow it in her garden, she was a great gardener but couldn't figure out why those flowers never bloomed...my dad thought that it was hilarious, a 90year old granny with a pot garden...

[GostHacked]

Quite false....medical weed is controlled in several US states.

Only medical weed is controlled. The rest is an attempt to control it.

It is a controlled substance...it is illegal except as prescribed by law.

Redundant.

Fine by me...alcohol is another and far greater scourge about the land.

Well at least we are making progress.

[Shady]

As I've already stated. The chief ingredient in marijuana is THC, a mild form of acid, prolonged usage of which can cause adverse effects to your sexual potency, short term memory loss, and can also severly damage your brain tissue, central nervous system, and basic motor skills. Why should we be encouraging its use?

Answer: We shouldn't.

You pro-dope advocates are annoying. Enough already! :angry:

[Smallc]

Then do you agree that we should immediately ban tobacco and alcoholic beverages, both of which are proven carcinogens that cause irreversible brain damage and lack of neural connections over time?...or are you a hypocrite.

[Wild Bill]

Compared to what? The legal production, distribution, and sale of scheduled substances occurs on a regular basis but there are still problems associated with addiction, crime, rehab, etc. Decriminalization and legalization are two very different ideas.

And I would like you to make the case for legal and open sale of opiates, synthetic drugs, etc.

Right now drug prohibition has been a dismal failure! One that costs us all billions of dollars a year, totally up in smoke, if you'll pardon the pun. That's a lot of hospital beds and ER nurses!

Unless you're prepared to become a true police state with a cop on every corner and paid informers near every small group having a conversation, policing an unpopular law is impossible.

All that happens is that Al Capones become rich! So rich that they can afford to pay politicians to keep things illegal to maintain their incredible profit margins.

When millions of Canadians do drugs of some kind and millions more don't really disapprove, you are trying to impose a law that is not respected. The situation in America is no different. One would have thought that Americans would have learned from mob ruled Chicago but looking at Miami I guess every generation has to learn for itself, the hard way.

I guess I just resent being taxed for a facade, to please some damn social engineers who want to tell everyone else what to do!

[BubberMiley]

As I've already stated. The chief ingredient in marijuana is THC, a mild form of acid...

No, it's not. You're making things up again.

Why should we be encouraging its use?

Answer: We aren't. Prohibition only encourages kids to try it. You are the one who is, in fact, encouraging its usage. Few in our society even heard of it until it was illegal. Presently legal, similar drugs, such as salvia, just aren't popular with the cool kids because there's no outlaw factor. Outlaw it and I assure you it will soon be for sale in junior high schools across the country.

You pro-dope advocates are annoying. Enough already! :angry:

Then maybe you should refrain from posting on topics you find annoying and know nothing about.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Then do you agree that we should immediately ban tobacco and alcoholic beverages, both of which are proven carcinogens that cause irreversible brain damage and lack of neural connections over time?...or are you a hypocrite.

According to his logic we should ban most medicines to, and household cleaners, and industrial adhesives and gasoline, etc. All of those things are hazardous to your health whether consumed willingly or accidentally. Some are bad just if you inhale them, hence many things haveing a "use only in a well ventilated area" notice on them. Hey Shady avoid all workshops and construction zones, if you think weed is bad you'll flip over some of the stuff used in shops and construction.

[wyly]

Right now drug prohibition has been a dismal failure! One that costs us all billions of dollars a year, totally up in smoke, if you'll pardon the pun. That's a lot of hospital beds and ER nurses!

Unless you're prepared to become a true police state with a cop on every corner and paid informers near every small group having a conversation, policing an unpopular law is impossible.

All that happens is that Al Capones become rich! So rich that they can afford to pay politicians to keep things illegal to maintain their incredible profit margins.

When millions of Canadians do drugs of some kind and millions more don't really disapprove, you are trying to impose a law that is not respected. The situation in America is no different. One would have thought that Americans would have learned from mob ruled Chicago but looking at Miami I guess every generation has to learn for itself, the hard way.

I guess I just resent being taxed for a facade, to please some damn social engineers who want to tell everyone else what to do!

agree with all that Wild Bill...but I don't think it's a social engineer who wants to tell everyone what to do, real social engineering types are generally progressive...social control freaks are usually moralistic politicians and religious leaders who are afraid of change...

[Shady]

Then do you agree that we should immediately ban tobacco and alcoholic beverages

I'm not sure if you're aware, but as a society we've been discouraging and restricting the use of tobacco and alcohol for decades. Why should we be encouraging the use of marijuana, while at the same time discouraging the use of the other two? It seems somewhat counter-productive to me.

Unfortunately, tobacco was introduced into society at a time when it wasn't fully understood as to how harmful it was to our health. But we've been slowly weaning ourselves off of it ever since. Hopefully soon it'll no longer be with us. But alcohol isn't really an issue. In moderation there isn't a problem.

But the pro-dope advocates seem to be arguing that because we have 1 or 2 bad substances legal, we should have a 3rd. That doesn't make any sense.

No, it's not. You're making things up again.

No, unfortunately I'm not making anything up. It's science. And THC in marijuana has been getting stronger and stronger for decades. Once again, science.

[BubberMiley]

I'm not making anything up. It's science. And THC in marijuana has been getting stronger and stronger for decades. Once again, science.

Provide me a citation that says it's a mild form of acid. Yeah, I knew you couldn't.

And the THC isn't getting stronger. There's just more of it, dum-dum. So you don't have to smoke as much, thus saving your lungs.

[Shady]

thus saving your lungs.

Saving your lungs from what?

[wyly]

According to his logic we should ban most medicines to, and household cleaners, and industrial adhesives and gasoline, etc. All of those things are hazardous to your health whether consumed willingly or accidentally.

ya I went to school with a kid who died sniffing glue, he was 15...I use to smoke pot in my younger years worst I got from that was a bad case of the munchies ...

Some are bad just if you inhale them, hence many things haveing a "use only in a well ventilated area" notice on them. Hey Shady avoid all workshops and construction zones, if you think weed is bad you'll flip over some of the stuff used in shops and construction.

yup, working in construction I worked with chemicals/fumes so toxic our time limit in a room was one minute, we worked in teams...people died working with that shit, I can recall myself waking up on a concrete floor in a pool of my own vomit...we never understood what good the warnings "use only in a well ventilated area" were, how is that going to happen in an enclosed industrial setting?..

[bush_cheney2004]

But the pro-dope advocates seem to be arguing that because we have 1 or 2 bad substances legal, we should have a 3rd. That doesn't make any sense.

It makes perfect sense to a doper!

[BubberMiley]

Saving your lungs from what?

Smoke. Like the stuff that comes out of cars. It can't be good for you, but it would be foolish to criminalize the possession of cars.

But I'm glad you partake in this debate, because you are a classic example of why weed is illegal. It's derived from insecure people who are consumed with their contempt for others, and they'll do anything to be vindictive about it. Since you think people who consume weed are "lousy potsmokers", your feigned concern for their health rings pretty shallow. Since you advocate restricted government intrusion into individuals' lives in ALL OTHER cases, you show you're not above severe hypocrisy when it comes to this issue too.

And finally, you'll make up unsubstantiated crap because you have no other argument. I;m still waiting for the acid=THC citation.

[Shady]

Smoke.

But I thought it was perfectly healthy? In fact, nobody has ever died from it. Right? So now you're saying it can cause cancer? And you think we should be encouraging its use in society? Huh?

your feigned concern for their health rings pretty shallow.

Nope. I'm completely sincere. I don't think marijuana should ever be legalized. And I definitely don't think its use should be promoted.

Since you advocate restricted government intrusion into individuals' lives in ALL OTHER cases, you show you're not above severe hypocrisy when it comes to this issue too.

Actually, it's the pro-dope advocates that are usually the hypocrites in this case. Like you. Somebody who's in favour of government intrusion in all parts of everyday life, but when it comes to marijuana, you have a come-to-Jesus moment, and suddenly you're a libertarian!

And finally, you'll make up unsubstantiated crap because you have no other argument. I;m still waiting for the acid=THC citation.

Sure my suddenly a libertarian, pro-dope advocate!

The researchers said the active acidic ingredient in marijuana, known as THC, seems to overstimulate

marijuana receptors in the liver, leading to over-production of the protein.

Link

In the cannabis plant THC occurs mainly as tetrahydrocannabinol carboxylic acid

Link

Not only that, but here's what we know of the dangers of marijuana...

Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty in thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.

A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor.

Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.7 This may be due to the increased heart rate as well as effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in aging populations or those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke.

Link

Yeah, we need more of this in society!

[BubberMiley]

All those links and nothing that says it has any relation with acid. For the umpteenth time, is this one of those incidents where you did not know what you were talking about or is it one where you were just lying?

And if you insist on saying you're not promoting its use among children by refusing to kill the unregulated black market, why not back it up with a link that indicates prohibition reduces consumption, particularly among minors?

And, once again, are you in favour of criminalizing all unhealthy products or just this one? Why is that?

Feel free to ignore the questions, because you're already proven yourself, beyond a doubt, to be too intellectually dishonest to even attempt to answer them.

BTW, I'm not at all for government intrusion into people's everyday lives. I'm in favour of government working for what is generally agreed upon as the common good---rational things like road-building and flood protection and public education. But in terms of things that are nobody else's business, I'm consistently opposed to government intrusion. Why are you not?

Edited May 21, 2010 by BubberMiley