Mosque going up in NYC building

[DogOnPorch]

Exactly. Which is obviously what I'm referring to.

It takes a real ignoramus, or dishonest person, or outright stupidity, to not get what I'm referring to when I spoke of "religion" being responsible. Obviously, considering I've said it at least a dozen times, I'm referring to extremist Muslims. Odd that the one or two times I didn't qualify it with "extremist" they have no problem remembering it and bringing it up over and over, while they ignore the bajillion times I've said "I don't blame all Muslims." Fact is, extremist Muslims (emphasized for the uber sensative PC police on the board) were responsible for 9-11.

For the love of God, if I blamed all Muslims, I'd simply say so.

That I've had to waste about 50 posts refuting things I never said,/don't believe/have repeatedly said outright that I don't believe, makes me really question the intelligence and/or honesty of quite a few posters.

No worries. They generally support Hamas, as well.

[ToadBrother]

I have another favorite part in this thread: it's the posts where anyone who disagrees with the 'you're a bigot!! you think this even though you said you didn't!' crowd is not only a bigot, but "whining" when they state their views.

I call you a bigot because you unfairly and unjustifiably tar an entire group with the crimes of a very small minority. You keep insisting that your views aren't bigoted, but then immediately demonstrate a very prejudicial, generalized kind of fallacious logic, referring to Muslims as some singular group. I don't call you a bigot because I disagree with you (I disagree with lots of people without calling them bigots). I call you a bigot because, well, that's what you are. Honestly, I can't see the difference between your logic and the kind of logic that has certain groups of racist Christians moaning about the Jews killing Jesus.

The only other reasonable alternative I can come up with is that you are outrageously bad at communicating what you're trying to say. That doesn't reflect well on you either, but it's certainly better than how a lot of your posts actually read.

Edited August 6, 2010 by ToadBrother

[dre]

See BC-2004's post re: B-29 Monument in Hiroshima...maybe a nice big statue of Paul Tibbets for ending WW2 so favorably would be nice.

The problem with that comparison is that a B-29 destroyed Hiroshima, but a religion did NOT perpetrate 911. 911 was perpetrated by a paramilitary organization made up mostly of elements left over from the same Mujahadeen that the CIA helped defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Trying to suggest that a "religion" was responsible for 911 just because the attackers belonged to it is failed and broken logic. It makes no more sense than suggesting that Christianity is responsible for the invasion of Iraq just because most of the members of the US army are Christians.

[Guest American Woman]

I call you a bigot because you unfairly and unjustifiably tar an entire group with the crimes of a very small minority. You keep insisting that your views aren't bigoted, but then immediately demonstrate a very prejudicial, generalized kind of fallacious logic, referring to Muslims as some singular group. I don't call you a bigot because I disagree with you (I disagree with lots of people without calling them bigots). I call you a bigot because, well, that's what you are. Honestly, I can't see the difference between your logic and the kind of logic that has certain groups of racist Christians moaning about the Jews killing Jesus.

Well, I must be the one and only bigot who was standing up for Muslims when the University of Michigan was installing foot baths then.

:lol:

And for the record, I call you ignorant not because you disagree with me, but because, well, that's what you are.

Edited August 6, 2010 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

The only other reasonable alternative I can come up with is that you are outrageously bad at communicating what you're trying to say. That doesn't reflect well on you either, but it's certainly better than how a lot of your posts actually read.

Yes, that's it. I'm outrageously bad at communicating what I'm trying to say. I don't know how to communicate that I don't blame all Muslims other than by saying I DON'T BLAME ALL MUSLIMS. My bad. I'll have to learn better communication skills, because obviously that statement is not clear at all.

[dre]

Exactly. Which is obviously what I'm referring to.

It takes a real ignoramus, or dishonest person, or outright stupidity, to not get what I'm referring to when I spoke of "religion" being responsible. Obviously, considering I've said it at least a dozen times, I'm referring to extremist Muslims. Odd that the one or two times I didn't qualify it with "extremist" they have no problem remembering it and bringing it up over and over, while they ignore the bajillion times I've said "I don't blame all Muslims." Fact is, extremist Muslims (emphasized for the uber sensative PC police on the board) were responsible for 9-11.

For the love of God, if I blamed all Muslims, I'd simply say so.

That I've had to waste about 50 posts refuting things I never said,/don't believe/have repeatedly said outright that I don't believe, makes me really question the intelligence and/or honesty of quite a few posters.

ignoramus, or dishonest person, or outright stupidity / makes me really question the intelligence and/or honesty

Oh oh... here we go...

[Guest TrueMetis]

Exactly. Which is obviously what I'm referring to.

It takes a real ignoramus, or dishonest person, or outright stupidity, to not get what I'm referring to when I spoke of "religion" being responsible. Obviously, considering I've said it at least a dozen times, I'm referring to extremist Muslims. Odd that the one or two times I didn't qualify it with "extremist" they have no problem remembering it and bringing it up over and over, while they ignore the bajillion times I've said "I don't blame all Muslims." Fact is, extremist Muslims (emphasized for the uber sensative PC police on the board) were responsible for 9-11.

For the love of God, if I blamed all Muslims, I'd simply say so.

That I've had to waste about 50 posts refuting things I never said,/don't believe/have repeatedly said outright that I don't believe, makes me really question the intelligence and/or honesty of quite a few posters.

Does this mean I can oppose all Christian churches in Spain because that religion was responsible for the Spanish Inquisition? And all churches in North America because Christianity was largely responsible for a lot of the really horrible stuff that happened to the First Nations? Cause that's essentially what your saying.

[Sir Bandelot]

She does this in almost every thread she participates in... if you watch for it youll see this is a common theme. Its her MO. She doesnt understand what inference is... so she makes all kinds of bizzare and conflicting statements based on confused and tortured logic, and then when people infer a meaning from them, she jumps up and down screaming VICTIM! VICTIM!... Thats normally followed up with howls of "IDIOTS!" and such.

Yes, I see what you mean. Hence the statement "Listen what I say". And she did call anyone who doesn't get her views an ignoramus, etc.

Kinda sad because, I used to think she was pretty cool. Now she just, blows her cool

[DogOnPorch]

The problem with that comparison is that a B-29 destroyed Hiroshima, but a religion did NOT perpetrate 911. 911 was perpetrated by a paramilitary organization made up mostly of elements left over from the same Mujahadeen that the CIA helped defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Trying to suggest that a "religion" was responsible for 911 just because the attackers belonged to it is failed and broken logic. It makes no more sense than suggesting that Christianity is responsible for the invasion of Iraq just because most of the members of the US army are Christians.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

[DogOnPorch]

Praise be to Allah, we seek His help and ask for his pardon. we take refuge in Allah from our wrongs and bad deeds. Who ever been guided by Allah will not be misled, and who ever has been misled, he will never be guided. I bear witness that there is no God except Allah-no associates with Him- and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and messenger.

[Bonam]

Yes, that's it. I'm outrageously bad at communicating what I'm trying to say. I don't know how to communicate that I don't blame all Muslims other than by saying I DON'T BLAME ALL MUSLIMS. My bad. I'll have to learn better communication skills, because obviously that statement is not clear at all.

Don't sweat it, those of us who aren't brainwashed politically correct zombies understood what you were trying to say back on page 1.

[dre]

Yes, that's it. I'm outrageously bad at communicating what I'm trying to say. I don't know how to communicate that I don't blame all Muslims other than by saying I DON'T BLAME ALL MUSLIMS. My bad. I'll have to learn better communication skills, because obviously that statement is not clear at all.

I think its not just bad communicating... its about confused logic, and mixed messages. You find yourself in this exact same position an awfull lot, with a whole variety of different posters in a variety of different subjects. You try to stay in denial by calling everyone else idiots or stupid and acting like youre somehow a victim all the time, but "everyone else" isnt the problem.

[Guest American Woman]

Does this mean I can oppose all Christian churches in Spain because that religion was responsible for the Spanish Inquisition?

For God's sake. I CLEARLY have stated that I only object to this ONE mosque because it's being built on property available only because of 9-11; because of the actions of extremist Muslims.

Seriously. The only ones referring to ALL are you/like-minded posters.

And all churches in North America because Christianity was largely responsible for a lot of the really horrible stuff that happened to the First Nations? Cause that's essentially what your saying.

There it is again: ALL. And it's coming from YOU, not me.

And no, it's not even CLOSE to what I'm saying. I'm referring to ONE MOSQUE, and it's only the property they are building it on that I'm objecting to.

Do you seriously not get that?? How many times do I have to repeat it?

I'll repeat it once more, in bold caps, hoping that will help.

I DON'T OBJECT TO ALL MOSQUES. I DON'T EVEN OBJECT TO THIS ONE/THIS CENTER, BUT FOR THE PROPERTY IT'S BEING BUILT ON.

If you have an ounce of intelligence/honesty, really try to keep that in mind and STOP with the "ALL" references already.

Thank you.

[bush_cheney2004]

The problem with that comparison is that a B-29 destroyed Hiroshima, but a religion did NOT perpetrate 911. 911 was perpetrated by a paramilitary organization made up mostly of elements left over from the same Mujahadeen that the CIA helped defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan.

So what....the breakthrough engineering for such a splendid strategic bomber is not to blame for the assigned payload or target. Modern commercial aviation owes much to the big bombers, including the island nation of Japan. BTW, we also helped the Soviets defeat Germany, and I'll be damned if the commie bastards didn't appreciate it.

Let's start raising money for that B-29 Monument today!

[DogOnPorch]

I think its not just bad communicating... its about confused logic, and mixed messages. You find yourself in this exact same position an awfull lot, with a whole variety of different posters in a variety of different subjects. You try to stay in denial by calling everyone else idiots or stupid and acting like youre somehow a victim all the time, but "everyone else" isnt the problem.

Well you sure harp on this so-called crying victim.

[ToadBrother]

Yes, that's it. I'm outrageously bad at communicating what I'm trying to say. I don't know how to communicate that I don't blame all Muslims other than by saying I DON'T BLAME ALL MUSLIMS. My bad. I'll have to learn better communication skills, because obviously that statement is not clear at all.

Well, I gave you the choice, but at the end of the day you write things like this:

I would feel the same about any religion that was responsible for 9-11

If you're not blaming Muslims in general, then the above seems to run utterly counter to it. You keep saying "I'm not blaming all Muslims" and then, sometimes in the very same post, write things like the above.

I don't think there's much question that you're a bigot, no matter how much you've self-rationalized and couched it in your own person feel-goodisms.

[DogOnPorch]

So what....the breakthrough engineering for such a splendid strategic bomber is not to blame for the assigned payload or target. Modern commercial aviation owes much to the big bombers, including the island nation of Japan. BTW, we also helped the Soviets defeat Germany, and I'll be damned if the commie bastards didn't appreciate it.

Let's start raising money for that B-29 Monument today!

One of the nicest aircraft ever. Brings a tear to my eye every time I have the privilege of seeing one...usually FiFi.

[Sir Bandelot]

They just don't have M.Dancer to pick-on or worry about...lol. So you'll do. Soon...folks...soon...you'll have your favorite mocker back.

Dancer already weighed in on this thread a while ago. In classic Dancer style...

Perhaps we as Christians should be vocal over churches that have been or are being built in israel.... I think MuslimsChristians should be sensitive to those who lost loved ones . I think MuslimsChristians are doing the wrong thing in not showing sensitivity to the victims of other MuslimsChristians. It means I think MuslimsChristians should not be building there. I think they shouldn't build there not out of being prohibited, but out of sensitivity. I think it's going to do more to cause hard feelings than to foster good feelings. And if that's not coherent to you, you have a problem.

[ToadBrother]

Don't sweat it, those of us who aren't brainwashed politically correct zombies understood what you were trying to say back on page 1.

Really? Perhaps you could explain it to me. For instance, perhaps you could explain how saying I would feel the same about any religion that was responsible for 9-11 isn't a bigoted, prejudicial and fallacious statement.

[Bonam]

Really? Perhaps you could explain it to me. For instance, perhaps you could explain how saying I would feel the same about any religion that was responsible for 9-11 isn't a bigoted, prejudicial and fallacious statement.

Not gonna get into it. It's been beaten to death a hundred times over in this thread. Building a Mosque at the location is unnecessarily confrontational; as realized by many Muslims themselves and as elaborated on here:

http://www.islamicpluralism.org/1605/a-muslim-case-against-the-mosque

Rauf is a cloaked radical, with links to supporters of terrorism, using undisclosed funding to make confrontation where none needs to exist, stirring disquiet, inflaming emotions. Moderate Muslims realize that building a Mosque at the site is a bad idea, certain only to bring greater strife, not greater understanding.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

Well, I gave you the choice, but at the end of the day you write things like this:

I would feel the same about any religion that was responsible for 9-11

If you're not blaming Muslims in general, then the above seems to run utterly counter to it. You keep saying "I'm not blaming all Muslims" and then, sometimes in the very same post, write things like the above.

I don't think there's much question that you're a bigot, no matter how much you've self-rationalized and couched it in your own person feel-goodisms.

Grow a brain, or an once of honesty. I've already explained that "by the religion that was responsible" I was referring to the religion of the extremists, which is Islam. If you choose to ignore that, and instead dishonestly go on and on as if I haven't clarified my response, go for it. But I was remiss in qualifying "extremists" in one post, while I have said in about FIFTY posts that i don't blame all Muslims. When I've said it in CAPS, bold print, and BOLD CAPS. That you are now referring to one post, in which I failed to qualify "extremist," tells me that you're not interested in the truth; that you don't care how/what I actually think/feel.

So go for it. Keep completely misrepresenting my opinion. Keep insisting I feel/think/believe things that I don't. But I won't be responding. You and your ilk can all pat yourselves on the back and assign whatever beliefs you need to assign to me in order to feel holier-than-thou. I have the feeling you need to believe what you do about me for reasons I can't even begin to fathom.

[DogOnPorch]

He's a lawyer...lol.

[Guest American Woman]

Not gonna get into it. It's been beaten to death a hundred times over in this thread. Building a Mosque at the location is unnecessarily confrontational; as realized by many Muslims themselves and as elaborated on here:

http://www.islamicpluralism.org/1605/a-muslim-case-against-the-mosque

Rauf is a cloaked radical, with links to supporters of terrorism, using undisclosed funding to make confrontation where none needs to exist, stirring disquiet, inflaming emotions. Moderate Muslims realize that building a Mosque at the site is a bad idea, certain only to bring greater strife, not greater understanding.

It's also elaborated on here: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/06/06/a_mosque_at_ground_zero/

[DogOnPorch]

Dancer already weighed in on this thread a while ago. In classic Dancer style...

He's been sentenced to the Cooler. Can't you hear the baseball hitting the wall?

Here we see M.Dancer being led off...

Edited August 6, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[dre]

Not gonna get into it. It's been beaten to death a hundred times over in this thread. Building a Mosque at the location is unnecessarily confrontational; as realized by many Muslims themselves and as elaborated on here:

http://www.islamicpluralism.org/1605/a-muslim-case-against-the-mosque

Rauf is a cloaked radical, with links to supporters of terrorism, using undisclosed funding to make confrontation where none needs to exist, stirring disquiet, inflaming emotions. Moderate Muslims realize that building a Mosque at the site is a bad idea, certain only to bring greater strife, not greater understanding.

So what. American muslims shouldnt have to tip-toe around worrying about offending people over an act they had absolutely nothing to do with.