It's Official: The Stimulus Didn't Help

[Shady]

Most of us already knew this, but for the rest of you still denying this fact...

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The recovery is picking up steam as employers boost payrolls, but economists think the government's stimulus package and jobs bill had little to do with the rebound, according to a survey released Monday.

In latest quarterly survey by the National Association for Business Economics, the index that measures employment showed job growth for the first time in two years -- but a majority of respondents felt the fiscal stimulus had no impact.

...

NABE conducted the study by polling 68 of its members who work in economic roles at private-sector firms. About 73% of those surveyed said employment at their company is neither higher nor lower as a result of the $787 billion Recovery Act

CNN

It had no impact. Which is why unemployment sailed much higher than Obama had promised. The only stimulating effect the so-called Recovery Act had, was for government workers, and government programs.

[GostHacked]

Most of us already knew this, but for the rest of you still denying this fact...

It had no impact. Which is why unemployment sailed much higher than Obama had promised. The only stimulating effect the so-called Recovery Act had, was for government workers, and government programs.

Are these the Bush Bailouts or Obama Bailouts?

[Shady]

Are these the Bush Bailouts or Obama Bailouts?

Not the Bush or Obama bailouts. The Obama stimulus bill.

[Pliny]

Are these the Bush Bailouts or Obama Bailouts?

Both failures.

The Obama stimulus package was about government encouraging spending in the economy. Remember Obama, implying everyone was stupid and saying, "that's what a stimulus is"(you dummies). It was going to do it by keeping credit easily available at low interest rates. The problem was that no one wanted a loan at all because they weren't sure they were going to have a job to pay it back. Obama tried to blame the banks for not lending.

The only thing a government can do that will stimulate an economy is reduce regulation and taxation.

[Pliny]

2.91 million jobs lost since the stimulus.

The WH is claiming they have created 3.5 million jobs since the stimulus.

Who you gonna believe?

Tough question, I know!

[sharkman]

The latest jobs numbers have come in, and 430,000 new jobs have been created in the U.S.(in May) Of those, guess how many are private sector jobs? 41,000. The rest are from Obama's census program, and are temporary jobs. That's an unhealthy development, and there is no way a government can employ the nation by borrowing and raising taxes.

Edited June 4, 2010 by sharkman

[geoffrey]

That's an unhealthy development, and there is no way a government can employ the nation by borrowing and raising taxes.

Just pull a Greece: borrow and don't raise taxes. Don't worry, with all the moral hazard now, someone will bail them out right? China?

[sharkman]

Well I think that's pretty much what Obama has done over the last 1 1/2 years. Their economy is now sputtering again and the stock market too.

[geoffrey]

That's because Obama has yet to deliver on anything he says and the market is starting to understand that. He has no real plan. He's not accomplishing anything he's set out to do. The U.S. is bleeding private market jobs.

Put it this way, fewer people working everyday. The only new workers are on the government payroll. So where is the money coming from?

Americans only generate internal wealth by buy property and selling it to another American for more money a few months later. Goldman Sachs might intervene and make an MBS based on it as well somewhere along the line. However, that doesn't make any external wealth. That nation doesn't get any richer. It doesn't allow them to buy more from China or import more oil from the Middle East. It's all just fake wealth.

Shell game my friend. A country that grossly imports far more than it exports is bleeding. It can't last forever. Eventually Americans need to live within their means and actually produce something. I know, I know. They produce services and 'intellectual' property. True. But they consume way more than what that's worth (see: current account).

I don't predict the end of the United States. But entitlement programs will disappear, taxes will go higher and Americans will live far less well off than they did last generator. And we'll pay a price in Canada too.

Be careful of real-estate. Make sure you have commodity exposure in your portfolio. Diversify your foreign holdings. It's about to get real ugly.

[maple_leafs182]

Guys, who is going to continue to buy American government bonds, the US government is broke. They run at a $1.5 trillion deficit, they need to get the money to pay for the deficit somewhere. It doesn't look like they are trying to cut spending (Obamacare). So they need to either go the way selling bonds or raising taxes. The citizens are broke and struggling as is and raising taxes too much will result in tax revolts. Who will buy their bonds, everybody is broke. Having the fed buy up all the bonds would inflate the currency too much risk hyper inflating it, so everyone who has savings in dollars would see all their wealth disappear.

This is not a small problem, this is a big problem.

[bush_cheney2004]

Guys, who is going to continue to buy American government bonds, the US government is broke. They run at a $1.5 trillion deficit, they need to get the money to pay for the deficit somewhere.

Duh! Americans buy government bonds...imagine that! How do you think we paid for WW2?

It doesn't look like they are trying to cut spending (Obamacare). So they need to either go the way selling bonds or raising taxes. The citizens are broke and struggling as is and raising taxes too much will result in tax revolts. Who will buy their bonds, everybody is broke.

See above...they are not all "broke", and in fact are now carrying less personal debt loads than Canadians.

Having the fed buy up all the bonds would inflate the currency too much risk hyper inflating it, so everyone who has savings in dollars would see all their wealth disappear.

But you said they were all broke...make up your mind.

This is not a small problem, this is a big problem.

Everything is bigger in the USA.

[maple_leafs182]

Duh! Americans buy government bonds...imagine that! How do you think we paid for WW2?

See above...they are not all "broke", and in fact are now carrying less personal debt loads than Canadians.

Yes they are broke.

But you said they were all broke...make up your mind.

The fed meaning The Federal Reserve. It prints money out of thin air, it can't be broke.

Everything is bigger in the USA.

Including ego's

Edited June 9, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes they are broke.

But you said money was not important. Live like a Hippie.

The fed meaning The Federal Reserve. It prints money out of thin air, it can't be broke.

The world needs more of them as a primary reserve currency!

Including ego's

You got nothing better to watch in Canada?

[Oleg Bach]

The only time money is not important is when you are young and beautiful - you get by on looks and youthful energy, plus charm - Money is only important when you are old - that reminds me - time to liquidate my assets..the adventure is over - time to retire soon - and if you are poor..you will not live long. SO I will be sending myself a stimulus package - and bail my self out of this game - Besides - the adventure has lost it's charm.

[maple_leafs182]

I'm pretty sure the America Dollar will collapse within a few years.

I don't know how people think America can spend their way out of debt.

The federal deficit is too high and growing, it will never be payed off. Why would people buy American bonds, that is a stupid investment.

[Pliny]

Just pull a Greece: borrow and don't raise taxes. Don't worry, with all the moral hazard now, someone will bail them out right? China?

The perception that a bailout will save an economy is not true.

The reality is it creates "moral hazard", meaning no fear of consequences for failure, and it props up unsound businesses that will eventually fail again.

Politicians, by granting the bailout, saved their investments on Wall Street and Wall Street gets to reward itself for failure.

The perception a stimulus kick starts an economy is also wrong. It only provides life support for the continuation of business as usual which has brought about the economic downturn in the first place and prolongs the inevitable collapse.

Barack was supposed to be about change but he is busy propping up the same old same old - much to the consternation of the far left.

[Pliny]

I'm pretty sure the America Dollar will collapse within a few years.

I don't know how people think America can spend their way out of debt.

Americans in general know they can't spend their way out of debt. Only those ignorant of economics, such as the far left who believe money is no object when it comes to financing their interests would believe it.

The federal deficit is too high and growing, it will never be payed off. Why would people buy American bonds, that is a stupid investment.

They will buy American bonds because they are better than Greek bonds or most other European bonds. Money flees to safety. Right now, American bonds are a risk but where else are going to go. A lot of people are doing as you are and buying semi-precious metals.

November will tell the story of the Barack Obama administration.

Hope he doesn't turn fascist and pull a Chavez. Americans definitely won't like that. But his tendency is to alienate and be divisive even though the rhetoric is of unity, it seems unity means everyone must agree with him.

I look at this oil spill, as an example, and here he is taking the opportunity to push his environmental agenda before the crisis is resolved. He blames BP entirely when BP wouldn't be out there in deep water if legislation hadn't driven them out there in the first place. Responsibility is not entirely about blaming someone it is about being causative. Obama can't be causative because he only thinks of responsibility as blame.

Here's basically how it works. You blame someone for your difficulties and that someone is now more powerful than you. You become powerless to resolve your problems because you have assigned the cause or source of your problems to that person.

His top priority prior to the spill was health care when it should have been the economy and jobs, which he carelessly threw money at and blamed Wall street fat cats for the turmoil. Well, a lot of politicians and Americans have money invested on Wall Street. Obama basically propped up the dead wood, the poor management practices, the poorly run businesses, instead of allowing it to shed the old skin and breathe new life with self-regulation that would prevent their future failure. Those invested in Wall Street are quite happy to see it continue business as usual and would even welcome regulatory oversight as long as things don't change much. The existing regulatory oversight, such as the SEC, is laughable any further oversight will be just as laughable. Failure is necessary in order to clean house not more(chuckle, chuckle. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge)regulation.

Well, I've rambled on here for long enough now - time to move on.

[sharkman]

Yup, Obama's inexperience is in fine form in all of these matters. There is no way he should have rammed through the Health Care bill in the middle of the worst financial crisis since the depression. He is going to be a one termer, but how much damage will be done by the end of it?

[maple_leafs182]

Yup, Obama's inexperience is in fine form in all of these matters. There is no way he should have rammed through the Health Care bill in the middle of the worst financial crisis since the depression. He is going to be a one termer, but how much damage will be done by the end of it?

America is broke, they will have a projected 1.8 trillion dollar deficit this year. Obama is just spending more with the health care bill and making the situation worse.

I really wouldn't want to be Obama, he will have a lot of people hating him soon.

Obama and the Fed have done a lot of damage, I think enough to start a Second American Revolution.

They will buy American bonds because they are better than Greek bonds or most other European bonds. Money flees to safety. Right now, American bonds are a risk but where else are going to go. A lot of people are doing as you are and buying semi-precious metals.

Well they will feel stupid when the dollars they get payed back in is worth a lot less then the dollars they paid into with.

Well, I've rambled on here for long enough now - time to move on.

I like the rambling, keep it up.

[bush_cheney2004]

America is broke, they will have a projected 1.8 trillion dollar deficit this year. Obama is just spending more with the health care bill and making the situation worse.

Yet America can do more "broke" than Canada can do with a balanced budget.

I really wouldn't want to be Obama, he will have a lot of people hating him soon.

Obama and the Fed have done a lot of damage, I think enough to start a Second American Revolution.

Uh-oh...that's not good for you guys. Remember the first one?

Well they will feel stupid when the dollars they get payed back in is worth a lot less then the dollars they paid into with.

Nope...makes the real debt smaller!

Edited June 18, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

Look what Harper said wisely yesterday - to para-phrase "stimulas is not an economy" You can not spend your way out - consumerism has it's limitations...stricter control of our money guys is the solution..more trust and more lending to independents is the solution - BUT as we saw with the BP mess - cheapness and a great insecurity that results in hording has taken over our banks - time for them to relax - it's not like they are going to live forever and perhaps perish and take it with them - time to spend and lend...let the bankers spend their way out. We as consummers have done our best..It is their turn to take a chance and have faith in the nation.

[Pliny]

Nope...makes the real debt smaller!

An apparency in relativity. A debt is a debt. The terms of the debt must be satisfied. If someone will take a token as payment of a debt, and as you illustrate we have become accustomed to doing that, then the swindlers have free reign. Devaluing a currency, through continuous monetary/credit inflation is robbing not only the debtor but thee and me.

[maple_leafs182]

Can you guys do me a favour...

Let's just say the American dollar collapses and the world economy collapses and millions suffer as a result, can you please just start to question the necessity of a monetary based economy.

Yet America can do more "broke" than Canada can do with a balanced budget.

What is your point. I don't like Canada as much as I don't like America, don't take it personal if I attack America...it won't make you less patriotic.

Nope...makes the real debt smaller!

No it doesn't. They would have to either cut spending or raise taxes to make the debt smaller.

[bush_cheney2004]

An apparency in relativity. A debt is a debt. The terms of the debt must be satisfied. If someone will take a token as payment of a debt, and as you illustrate we have become accustomed to doing that, then the swindlers have free reign. Devaluing a currency, through continuous monetary/credit inflation is robbing not only the debtor but thee and me.

Well, one is certainly welcome to negotiate better terms or medium of exchange, but goats or chickens can be a bigger problem.

[bush_cheney2004]

Can you guys do me a favour...

Let's just say the American dollar collapses and the world economy collapses and millions suffer as a result, can you please just start to question the necessity of a monetary based economy.

This doesn't make any sense (as usual). Your comparisons of pending doom to the standard of living provided by current economic systems are inconsistent. If you don't like a "monetary based economy", then don't particpate (but you can't pay your taxes with chickens.)

What is your point. I don't like Canada as much as I don't like America, don't take it personal if I attack America...it won't make you less patriotic.

Attacking America is trivial...but being totally dependent on America for economic stability and the world's reserve currency is your real weakness.

No it doesn't. They would have to either cut spending or raise taxes to make the debt smaller.

That's not how it works...a weak dollar policy has the effect of shrinking the debt; it is purposeful currency manipulation.