More Liberal Tolerance At University of Ottawa

[Jack Weber]

There's nothing intellectual about shutting down free speech. In fact, it's anti-intellectual, and directly the opposite a University of higher learning is suppose to be about. But yes, I'm as bad as Stalin for pointing out the hypocrisy and lack of real debate, discussion, and an intellectual environment.

Actually...To be ideologically correct,you'd be more like General Franco or Benito Mussolini...

[Born Free]

There's nothing intellectual about shutting down free speech. In fact, it's anti-intellectual, and directly the opposite a University of higher learning is suppose to be about. But yes, I'm as bad as Stalin for pointing out the hypocrisy and lack of real debate, discussion, and an intellectual environment.

Did someone shut down free speech? When? Where? Put 'em up, put 'em up! Lemme at him....!

[Sir Bandelot]

yes, I'm as bad as Stalin.

'nuff said

[Smallc]

It's in the same city of Ottawa. And both schools foster the same political environment.

I see...being in the same town automatically makes them the same. Oh, and probe that both schools foster the same political environment. Thanks in advance.

[kimmy]

Wow... where to start.

August's claim that this incident devalues a degree from this university? If I were planning to hire an engineer, or a nurse, or a botanist, or a business administrator, would this incident prejudice my view of their credentials? No.

I'm not sure I follow the logic as to how this makes a Carleton graduate less credible. Maybe a better school would have higher standards and keep morons like these out? I dunno.

I'm also not inspired by the claim that "Israeli Apartheid Week" fosters an environment that makes an incident like this more likely. I disagree. I think "Israeli Apartheid Week" is a symptom, not a cause.

"Liberal tolerance"? I think it's a safe bet that crazy machete-swinging Arabs aren't "liberals".

I do realize that there are super-left-wingy types who get frothing-at-the-mouth angry over all things Israel... we've got a few of them here on this message board... but I doubt these are the sort of people to actually confront someone face to face at all, much less swing a machete at them.

-k

[msj]

I do see that Rahim Jaffer is an alumni of UofO so maybe August is right after all?

But then there's Mary Lou Finlay, Erica Ehm, Alex Trebek and Jean Lapierre so who knows?

Of course, Carleton can lay claim to the "Scud Stud."

[Guest American Woman]

I do see that Rahim Jaffer is an alumni of UofO so maybe August is right after all?

Coulter graduated from Michigan, but I don't hold that against the university.

[Guest American Woman]

See now you went ahead and ruined a perfectly good thread that is full of baseless and broad assumptions with your insistence on applying logic and research.

For shame.

That was terrible of me. A thousand apologies.

This thread is proof positive that facts mean very little to some people; it's all about pushing their agenda, facts be damned.

[bush_cheney2004]

Coulter graduated from Michigan, but I don't hold that against the university.

Right...Michigan Law School after Cornell. She's got the chops and lots of attitude. Good for her.....

[Argus]

And I suppose that Jews don't hate arabs, and are completely innocent. What makes them so much more desirable?

They don't blow people up at random?

[Argus]

Right, and that includes keeping arabs out. Sorry, one form of racism doesn't solve another.

Actually, in this case it most certainly would...

[Argus]

They can teach arabs not to hate jews in arab centric schools. Now, if only they could teach jews to not hate arabs.

There is no evidence I have ever hear of or seen that there is even an attempt made in arab and muslim schools to teach student not to hate Jews.

Quite the contrary, in fact.

[Argus]

My point? I would not recommend anyone to study at the UofO or Carleton. You will damage your CV. If you can choose elsewhere, go there. The U of O has the advantage of being bilingual but its reputation is so bad now that anyone would be better elsewhere.

Like Concordia maybe? Real bunch of free thinkers THERE.

[Argus]

If you're shocked about the alleged assault, don't be. This is the point we've reached at several university campuses across the country. Bitter fighting between supporters of Israel and those who oppose the Jewish state used to be mainly confined to Concordia and York. Now it is spreading at breakneck speed to other schools like Carleton.

Adding a Machetet to the campus debate

[Guest American Woman]

From Argus' link:

Of course, we have to tread carefully here. Stories like this are often embellished or even made up. Two Jewish students at York recently claimed to have been assaulted at a pro-Israel event, but camera footage later showed no physical contact took place. Nonetheless, I have met Bergamini a few times and I have no reason to believe he would lie about this. He claims there were witnesses to the machete incident.

Has anyone read any accounts by witnesses? I find it odd that there is no coverage of this; that witnesses have not been quoted in any of the coverage of this alleged attack, where both men escaped unscathed.

Just some thoughts:

According to the original link:

"....I got hit hard on the back of the head. We ran to the bar entrance because bar security was there."

Why did no one, the two students or security, call the police after a man was "hit hard on the back of the head?"

The article goes on to say:

The two men later decided to walk across the Chaudière Bridge to Ottawa when the crowd surrounding them dispersed about five minutes later. As they walked through a parking lot near the bridge, however, a car with three men inside pulled up beside them.

“One of them rolled down the window and said: ‘I am the one who hit you, you f-----g Jew,’ although I am not a Jew,” Bergamini said. “Two guys came out of the car, and one of them tried to kick my roommate.

“One attacker said, ‘Open the trunk,’ and another guy pulled out a machete that glinted in the street lights. I yelled that they had weapons, and we started running as fast as we could. I saw the guy wind up with the machete as I looked back.”

So after what had already happened, and one had been hit hard on the head, why did they stick around when the car stopped, and while one "tried" (evidently didn't succeed) to kick one of them, and while they then went around the back of the car, opened the trunk, and a machete was pulled out? Only then did they run. Seems to me they should have ran the minute the car pulled up beside them and they could see it was three men from the group that was harassing and hitting them. Did neither have a cell phone?

According to the original link, they reported the incident to police on Monday. What time Monday? If someone had missed my head with a machete by one foot, I would have contacted the police immediately. If someone had hit me hard on the head I would have contacted the police.

Again, I'm wondering where the witnesses are and why none of them called the police, either.

Edited to add video of interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntOotKO0kbs

Edited April 9, 2010 by American Woman

[Bonam]

...

So what is your contention with the post above? To assert that the two students made up the whole story to make the Arabs look bad? That the whole incident never happened?

[Guest American Woman]

So what is your contention with the post above? To assert that the two students made up the whole story to make the Arabs look bad? That the whole incident never happened?

I'm saying I think it's a possibility, or that it didn't happen the way they said it did. I felt that way before I found the interview video, and I feel more strongly that it's possible after listening to it.

Did you listen to the interview? There are too many things that don't make sense.

For one thing, he says he talked to the police a minute after it happened, because "police are everywhere that time of night." So he talked to an officer a minute later, yet didn't file a police report until the next morning. What kind of police officer would talk to someone who barely missed being killed by a machete and not file a report that night? And who would experience that and wait until morning to file a report?

He also says he 'kept his eye on the trunk.' He's emphatic about that. He didn't run? He stuck around to keep his eye on the trunk after all that's happened so far? And if he's keeping his eye on the trunk, wouldn't he have seen the license plate number?

He also talks about the many, many people that witnessed the machete incident. Of all those many, many people, none of them thought to get a license plate number either? -- where was the car when the guy with the machete was chasing them down? And all of these witnesses are just standing around watching a man wielding a machete? Yet no one made a move of any kind? No one called the police? That's rather bizarre.

Seems to me the guy conducting the interview was a bit skeptical of some of the things that were said, too.

As I pointed out, the conservative OP writer that Shady linked to said false accusations of this sort have been made in the past.

[Bonam]

I'm saying I think it's a possibility, or that it didn't happen the way they said it did. I felt that way before I found the interview video, and I feel more strongly that it's possible after listening to it.

Did you listen to the interview? There are too many things that don't make sense.

For one thing, he says he talked to the police a minute after it happened, because "police are everywhere that time of night." So he talked to an officer a minute later, yet didn't file a police report until the next morning. What kind of police officer would talk to someone who barely missed being killed by a machete and not file a report that night? And who would experience that and wait until morning to file a report?

He also says he 'kept his eye on the trunk.' He's emphatic about that. He didn't run? He stuck around to keep his eye on the trunk after all that's happened so far? And if he's keeping his eye on the trunk, wouldn't he have seen the license plate number?

He also talks about the many, many people that witnessed the machete incident. Of all those many, many people, none of them thought to get a license plate number either? -- where was the car when the guy with the machete was chasing them down? And all of these witnesses are just standing around watching a man wielding a machete? Yet no one made a move of any kind? No one called the police? That's rather bizarre.

Seems to me the guy conducting the interview was a bit skeptical of some of the things that were said, too.

As I pointed out, the conservative OP writer that Shady linked to said false accusations of this sort have been made in the past.

Who says no one saw the license plate number or that no one called the police? Last I heard the police are still "investigating" and haven't released information. They could well have received a call. As for your other points, it is hard to focus on and commit to memory a license plate number while in the middle of being attacked. Additionally, after such an incident, someone could easily not be thinking clearly and not get it in their head to file a police report until the next day. As for the police officer they talked to, I dunno.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

Who says no one saw the license plate number or that no one called the police? Last I heard the police are still "investigating" and haven't released information. They could well have received a call.

You think the police could have received a call and gone there an not made a report? And yes, the police 'confirm that they are investigating,' but that's all. Seems to me if they had received a 911 type call, that wouldn't be kept a secret.

As for your other points, it is hard to focus on and commit to memory a license plate number while in the middle of being attacked.

Yet he focused on watching the trunk, he was emphatic about that. But I also questioned why not one of the "many, many witnesses" thought to get the license number. And where was the car while the chase was going on? If a call had been made, the caller could have simply reported the license number.

Additionally, after such an incident, someone could easily not be thinking clearly and not get it in their head to file a police report until the next day.

I think most people, when their life is threatened, think of calling the police first and foremost. If he were that distraught and not thinking clearly, perhaps he got the story wrong.

As for the police officer they talked to, I dunno.

I don't know, either. Nor do I know why an officer who received a call from one of the many, many witnesses didn't file a report.

This is no more than an "alleged" attack. There hasn't been one word reported in the media from one of the many, many witnesses. That's rather odd.

Edited April 9, 2010 by American Woman

[Bonam]

You think the police could have received a call and gone there an not made a report? And yes, the police 'confirm that they are investigating,' but that's all. Seems to me if they had received a 911 type call, that wouldn't be kept a secret.

Any time I've ever heard the police asked any question about any incident like this, all I've ever heard in response is "we're investigating and can't release any information at this time". I don't see any incongruity peculiar to this case.

Yet he focused on watching the trunk, he was emphatic about that. But I also questioned why not one of the "many, many witnesses" thought to get the license number. And where was the car while the chase was going on? If a call had been made, the caller could have simply reported the license number.

Have you considered that this was going on late at night? In the dark you probably couldn't even see the license plate, let alone the number on it.

I think most people, when their life is threatened, think of calling the police first and foremost.

I'd think the first people think of when their life is threatened is "fight or flight". After you've successfully fought off or escaped from whatever danger you were in, you relax. Once you calm down, you may remember about things you have to do at that point, like notifying the police. If you just came from a bar and are (possibly) intoxicated, scared to death from having just almost been killed, and tired, you may think its a good idea to put off such matters until after you get some rest. After all, with your life no longer in immediate danger, acting urgently is no longer required.

If he were that distraught and not thinking clearly, perhaps he got the story wrong.

Quite possible I'm sure. Doesn't mean it was a lie or a fabrication.

I don't know, either. Nor do I know why an officer who received a call from one of the many, many witnesses didn't file a report.

Who says the police officer didn't file a report? If he did, it would be part of the investigation, and subject to the whole "we're investigating and can't release any information at this time".

This is no more than an "alleged" attack. There hasn't been one word reported in the media from one of the many, many witnesses. That's rather odd.

Again nothing unusual here. Witness statements are often not available in the media until a case comes to a trial.

[Guest American Woman]

Any time I've ever heard the police asked any question about any incident like this, all I've ever heard in response is "we're investigating and can't release any information at this time". I don't see any incongruity peculiar to this case.

I've read when 911 calls have been made. It's not unusual at all for that information to be given out. And if a 911 call had gone out, and an officer was already on the scene, the guy would have had his police report filed that night. He wouldn't have had to go to the police station to file a report in the morning.

Have you considered that this was going on late at night? In the dark you probably couldn't even see the license plate, let alone the number on it.

It was a parking lot, which generally are lit up. And again, with "people everywhere," I don't think it would be expecting too much for someone to get the license number. A machete is pulled out and someone is chasing after two men, narrowly missing one, and not one person gets the license number? To quote: " ....it was like doing it in broad daylight, there were people everywhere..."

I'd think the first people think of when their life is threatened is "fight or flight". After you've successfully fought off or escaped from whatever danger you were in, you relax. Once you calm down, you may remember about things you have to do at that point, like notifying the police.

Except he didn't relax. He said he talked to the witnesses and got contact information. So he obviously went back, and the witnesses were apparently still there, just standing around. And he had the presence of mind to talk to them, to get contact information from them, yet he didn't have the presence of mind to file a police report that night.

If you just came from a bar and are (possibly) intoxicated, scared to death from having just almost been killed, and tired, you may think its a good idea to put off such matters until after you get some rest. After all, with your life no longer in immediate danger, acting urgently is no longer required.

Except, as I pointed out, he didn't "put off" talking to witnesses and getting contact information. Rest obviously wasn't first and foremost on his mind. Furthermore, the guy with the machete was still on the loose, and what would make him think he couldn't turn up again, a third time? His life most definitely was still in danger. I wouldn't be out among the witnesses getting contact information while this machete wielding nut was still on the loose. I'd have had the police officer I talked to do that.

But if he were intoxicated, he may not have gotten the story right.

Quite possible I'm sure. Doesn't mean it was a lie or a fabrication.

Keep in mind that I said fabrication or not telling it the way it was.

Who says the police officer didn't file a report? If he did, it would be part of the investigation, and subject to the whole "we're investigating and can't release any information at this time".

If the police officer filed the report that night, why would the guy go back to the station and file a report in the morning? It would have already been filed that night.

Again nothing unusual here. Witness statements are often not available in the media until a case comes to a trial.

I find it unusual. I find it odd that not one witness would want to talk to the media or that the media wouldn't want to talk to any witnesses. The guy himself is out in the media telling his story, so it's not as if it's all being kept hush-hush.

Edited April 9, 2010 by American Woman

[Bonam]

Shrug. All speculation at this point really. Guess we'll see what the investigation turns up.

[Argus]

If you have some statistics to show Arab immigrants are more likely to commit these sorts of crimes, then by all means provide it.

Bearing in mind, of course, that Canada deliberately does not collect those types of statistics because the Left feels that they would encourage bigotry.

[jbg]

And trying to make it into something it's not is nothing more than dishonesty.

The problem is that in France (and Montreal) in many instances police are refusing to protect Jews from mob violence. Netanyahu's attempted speech at Concordia was "Exhibit A". Obviously, though, this is at Carleton, not at U of O.

[dizzy]

Bearing in mind, of course, that Canada deliberately does not collect those types of statistics because the Left feels that they would encourage bigotry.

If we did, would we see a disproportionate tendency by white men in north america to violently sexually abuse children? A scan of the newspapers headlines suggests yes. But what would this teach us about white men?