More Liberal Tolerance At University of Ottawa

[Born Free]

Says the frenzied campaigner for censorship who calls himself Born Free....

If you cant answer the question (ie. what would you do with the crime stats on race?) you are yapping in the wind.

Now fess up and tell the world what you would do with them...or more specifically...how you would use them.....come on....show some courage ...

[Born Free]

If a particular group's behaviour varies widely from other groups I think it's legitimate to ask why. I think it's legitimate to inquire as to what is different about that group as compared to others in order to seek to address the problem. Because Jamaicans have been mentioned, we can start with them. We know the origins of Jamaican crime are in Jamaica. The country is extremely violent, and it has a history of dysfunctional families - particularly absent fathers and single teenage mothers. Jamaican immigration to Canada started with Jamaican women coming over as nannies and housekeepers, leaving their children behind. Years later, as they were granted citizenship, they brought over their children. Many of them hardly knew these mothers, and found themselves in a cold, foreign land, isolated, and educationally backward. The boys, in particular, banded together, and these groups, inspired by resentment, turned into gangs, which became criminal gangs, emulating their counterparts in Jamaica and the "gangsta culture" of rap and popular media. Those gangs continue today. The high school drop-out rate among young Black males, particularly Jamaicans, remains extremely high, providing a constant infusion of new recruits. Single teenage motherhood is the norm, not the exception in the Jamaican community in Canada as well as Jamaica. All of this helps define the problem. The solution obviously includes intensive work on young boys and girls to divorce them from a culture of early teenage motherhood and the importance of education.

Other communities have their own issues which cannot be addressed without gathering facts about the nature of the problem - or how much of a problem there is. Whether crime stats will really help us address the problem is problematical. Most such problems require intensive work - and often money. We do keep crime statistics on aborigines and their crime rate. A CBC report the other day, for example, included the throwaway line that 80% of the criminals incarcerated in Saskatchewan were natives. Has that been a big help in fixing the problems? I don't know. The problems continue. But we do know those statistics have been used to at least attempt to ameliorate the problem, as in with native healing lodges and special native processes for sentencing.

And you knew all this without benefit of crime stats by race....

[msj]

Your last two posts added nothing other than useless ad-hominem garbage. You are allowed to discuss statistics all you want.

Pointing out your use of a stupid cliche is not stupid nor useless.

Getting back to the matter at hand, I reiterate my claim, it's not necessarily a problem with the data itself, its the interpretation of what it means. I have demonstrated one way that looking at one particular data set, and drawing firm conclusions from it can be very misleading. A simpler way to say it is, there are wealthy Jamaicans who are not involved in drugs and gun crimes. There are other factors involved. The naive person would only fixate on what seems obvious and draw wrong conclusions from that.

No shit sherlock.

And yet your use the "damn lies" tactic to try and shut down debate.

Go figure...

So my role here is only to try and educate, the naive...

A rather funny thing to state given your use of the "damn lies" cliche. Hypocritical, to say the least.

[msj]

And you "knew" all this without benefit of crime stats by race....

Fixed it (imo).

Born Free: winner of "Best post of this thread so far on this day."

Too bad you don't actually win anything.

[Born Free]

Fixed it (imo).

Born Free: winner of "Best post of this thread so far on this day."

Too bad you don't actually win anything.

I guess I'll just have to live with that.

[bloodyminded]

Like I've said. Carleton University is a stones throw away from the University of Ottawa. And they foster the same kind of political environment. The students involved in attacking these particular Jews were members of Carleton University. And I wouldn't be suprised if several of the attackers were also members of the University of Ottawa, aka 'Israel Apartheid' U.

It's not suprising that these folks didn't want Ann Coulter and especially Ezra Levant (Jewish) speaking over at U of O.

This is delightfully promiscuous: you start with one incident (complete with a factual error or two); move from that to some symbolic gesture about the university in question (the wrong one, but never mind); then on to an entire group of people, vague and abstract but united by the librul-hatred that pantywaisted droolers have informed you that you must adhere to; on to Coulter's public appearances; and then add Levant, irrelevantly, for good measure.

That awful headache you got a few months ago was also the fault of "the left"; I'm sure you were suspicious, so I wish to confirm it for you.

[jbg]

Interesting story. I make no claim on it's veracity.

However, it would show the importance of abortion rights for women for the maternal health policy.

Well, if the "Freakonomics" crowd is to be believed, it would.

I am well-acquainted with some highly professional Jamaicans who are now, not surprisingly, productive U.S. citizens. From what I've heard 99% of that is true.

[Argus]

And you knew all this without benefit of crime stats by race....

I know the broad outlines of it. If however, I was a sociology type looking to actually do something about it I'd be somewhat hamstrung. I can't, for example, find out if there's a difference in behavioural problems between immigrants from one part of Jamaica vs another part, or from the Jamaican community in one part of Canada vs another. I can't determine if the crimes are just economic, just involve drugs, or if there's a higher incidence of, say, domestic violence in the Jamaican community, as well. I can't determine at what age first crimes tend to occur, or what they were, or to what extent the violence has spread among females. I don't know if the families that have fathers living in produce different outcomes, or how socioeconomic class comes into play. I don't know if they have a higher or lower incidence of recidivism, or if there is a higher incidence, what usually prompts repeat offenses. And I can't get any funding for any of that because the people who give grants will ask for my evidence there's a problem, and I have no statistics to back up my knowledge. The fact that "everyone knows" there's a problem is just not going to cut it on the forms.

As I've said, we do collect race based crime statistics with regard to natives, and that information has been used for a variety of efforts, the most obvious of which is a different methodology in punishing native crime.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Argus

[Born Free]

As I've said, we do collect race based crime statistics with regard to natives, and that information has been used for a variety of efforts, the most obvious of which is a different methodology in punishing native crime.

Aboriginals aside, surely you arent of the opinion that we now should consider the race of a perp to determine the method of punishment. I hope not.

Government authorities collecting crime stats by race is in fact a racist policy by its very nature... perhaps you dont believe that but its a fact.

[jbg]

Aboriginals aside, surely you arent of the opinion that we now should consider the race of a perp to determine the method of punishment. I hope not.

Government authorities collecting crime stats by race is in fact a racist policy by its very nature... perhaps you dont believe that but its a fact.

No. It reflects reality. I am Jewish and am quite willing to have the search for financial fraud concentrate on Jews. I believe in focusing on pragmatism and reality, not idealism and ideology.

[PIK]

So what have the arab countries done for the palstine cause , nothing but use them as pawns in the war to get rid of isreal. Where do arab gays go to be safe , you got it Isreal. So lets look at the whole pic and what is really going on over there.

[jbg]

So what have the arab countries done for the palstine cause , nothing but use them as pawns in the war to get rid of isreal. Where do arab gays go to be safe , you got it Isreal. So lets look at the whole pic and what is really going on over there.

There's a story whose truth I don't know. A person in Gaza was seriously ill and asked an Egyptian official whether to go to Cairo's leading hospital or Hadassah for surgery. The Egyptian cut the questioner off and asked "do you want (your relative) to live"? The advice given was obvious.