"Why we're there"...except that we won't be in a year.

[HitEleven]

Two days after claiming that they 2011 pull-out was a done deal (in the wake of Hillary Clinton's CTV interview), the Conservative government released a series of posters promoting the Afghan mission. Yet they did nothing to advertise this campaign...it was just dumped onto their Afghanistan website without fanfare.

Read more here: Battle Light.

Edited April 5, 2010 by HitEleven

[August1991]

HitEleven, you are new poster here. Possibly a hit-and-run poster.

Canada's action in Afghanistan is part of a broader NATO mission. Our troops are in Afghanistan because a NATO member (the US) was attacked in 2001. More broadly, NATO and western countries face a dangerous but minor threat. It is better to deal with this threat now rather than later.

Canadian troops in Afghanistan have accepted to defend a very tough battle zone. (If you look at a map of Afghanistan and Pakistan, this fact is obvious.) Our troops have been there for almost 10 years. It is now time for other western countries to accept this duty to protect and defend Western Civilization.

[Bonam]

It is now time for other western countries to accept this duty to protect and defend Western Civilization.

And if they choose not to do so?

[bloodyminded]

HitEleven, you are new poster here. Possibly a hit-and-run poster.

Canada's action in Afghanistan is part of a broader NATO mission. Our troops are in Afghanistan because a NATO member (the US) was attacked in 2001. More broadly, NATO and western countries face a dangerous but minor threat. It is better to deal with this threat now rather than later.

Canadian troops in Afghanistan have accepted to defend a very tough battle zone. (If you look at a map of Afghanistan and Pakistan, this fact is obvious.) Our troops have been there for almost 10 years. It is now time for other western countries to accept this duty to protect and defend Western Civilization.

The "minor threat" is a danger to "Western Civilization."

[charter.rights]

Canada's action in Afghanistan is part of a broader NATO mission. Our troops are in Afghanistan because a NATO member (the US) was attacked in 2001. More broadly, NATO and western countries face a dangerous but minor threat. It is better to deal with this threat now rather than later.

EXCEPT that is bull since Afghanis did not attack the US. They were Saudis and the US is still friendly with that enemy....

[Muddy]

Canadian soldiers are respected once again after the dark years of neglect by our political masters.We can leave Afganistan with our heads held high. We did our duty and beyond as a member of NATO against an enemy that wore no uniform to distinguish themselves. A tough job to be sure.

But the light at the end of the tunnel. The French are stepping up ! No ,they are not going to fight. They are willing to train Afganistan troops. What may you ask can the French military teach?Hmmm .

[Moonbox]

EXCEPT that is bull since Afghanis did not attack the US. They were Saudis and the US is still friendly with that enemy....

Mhmm...and al Quaeda wasn't training and operating from Afghanistan at all right???

I mean obviously we're in Afghanistan for their vast natural resources and bountiful land...........................

The place was a wasteland worthless to even the ancients.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Moonbox

[Topaz]

We can't be there for Canada's interest and if so what? I think we should pull out and regroup and IF Afghanistan ever becomes a honest country with honest people running it then perhaps go back. We are just wasting millions of dollars and lives right now. Seems fairly stupid to go into a country, lose many soldiers to death and injuries, and give this same country millions and millions of dollars, why?

[Moonbox]

We can't be there for Canada's interest and if so what? I think we should pull out and regroup and IF Afghanistan ever becomes a honest country with honest people running it then perhaps go back. We are just wasting millions of dollars and lives right now. Seems fairly stupid to go into a country, lose many soldiers to death and injuries, and give this same country millions and millions of dollars, why?

I don't think they realized how messed up a country it actually was. At this point now, it's all trying to get out while doing the least damage possible. Bailing out of nowhere will make it worse or at BEST no better than when they started.

I think the soldiers that died there would appreciate it if what they did made some sort of difference.

[Born Free]

I don't think they realized how messed up a country it actually was.

If "they" didnt know that it can only be because of more of that really really bad CIA intelligence....

Edited April 6, 2010 by Born Free

[Muddy]

It appears that some of the parents of our soldiers killed in action are encouraging Canada to stay in the fight against the terrorist thugs.

[Moonbox]

If "they" didnt know that it can only be because of more of that really really bad CIA intelligence....

Intelligence agencies aren't really equipped/designed to understand 3000 years of Afghan barbarism and backwards culture.

Big mistake yeah, especially because there've been lessons learned before (Soviets, Alexander the Great, the Persians etc) but now what?

[Sir Bandelot]

It appears that some of the parents of our soldiers killed in action are encouraging Canada to stay in the fight against the terrorist thugs.

It's understandable, because they want to at least know their kids death was for a good reason. But that is an opinion based on emotional attachment and we need to think clearly, for the benefit of other kids. When the game is done it's done.

[M.Dancer]

But that is an opinion based on emotional attachment ...

That is an assumption based on an emotional opinion...

[Born Free]

Intelligence agencies aren't really equipped/designed to understand 3000 years of Afghan barbarism and backwards culture.

Only totally stupid intelligence agencies arent equipped.

[Sir Bandelot]

That is an assumption based on an emotional opinion...

These are emotional stories. I don't feel very emotional about it in fact. The families who have pretty much given everything and lost everything should be given all due respect. But that alone is not justification for continuing the war.

I don't understand the governments ultimatum for Canada to stop fighting in 2011. Although I never supported the war it seems to me an arbitrary deadline, with no consideration given to the military or political strategy. It does not make sense. But none of this war really did make sense.

My view is that we should continue to participate along the same lines as our allies. This is a joint effort. But then some of our allies appear quite reluctant to do their part.

The only thing that would make sense at this point, especially given recent events is to prepare an exit strategy, one that would be drawn out over several years. And if we are sincere in our desire to make Afghanistan a better country than before this war started, it should include post-war planning to keep the peace and build up their infrastructure. That will be the meaningful, real fight.

[M.Dancer]

I don't understand the governments ultimatum for Canada to stop fighting in 2011. Although I never supported the war it seems to me an arbitrary deadline, with no consideration given to the military or political strategy.

Interestingly enough, while I do support the war, I also support the decision to take a breather...any date would be arbitrary...but to continue to send men on the 3rd and 4th tours is unreasonable to them and their families. These battle hardened vetrans should be at home for at least a couple of years where their experiance can be put to good use helping train the new faces and to be the backbones of the platoons, companies and regiments.

Then we can go back with energy and experiance.

[Army Guy]

It's understandable, because they want to at least know their kids death was for a good reason. But that is an opinion based on emotional attachment and we need to think clearly, for the benefit of other kids. When the game is done it's done.

What a crook of shit...

Just a while back the Majority of Canadians wanted Canadian soldiers to go over a kick the guts out of the taliban....can we say now that was based on emotion....because we had a hard on for womens and childrens rights....we are the Canadians... warriors of basic human rights....were we thinking clearly when we decided to send our boys into battle.....who's kids were we thinking of then...when the first combat cas came home....I know you've been again'st this war since the start, so your off the hook, you hold no responsabilty for anyone actions....Yes. yes ....you've done your part to return the troops, you've attended rallys , joined a forum, to voice your displeasure....you've done your job as a citizen...If we where all thinking clearly we would have done things differently...

Thier vioce needs to be heard, we all owe them that much....

Those other kids you talk about are currently soldiers in our nations Military....an armed force that has signed up to put thier lifes at risk in order to defend this nation.....we knew the risks before we got involved....same as most Canadians should have....

As for the Game....NATO will decide when the game is over....and as long as our allieds are over there risking thier lives we should be as well...our soldiers have recarved out our fighting abilities, regained our allieds trust in regards to dependabilty as soldiers....our soldiers have made this mission thiers because most Canadians dropped that ball long ago....this mission is almost at an end....we need to show the world we can and will stick by until then....anything else would be embrassing, and undo some of the work we've paided for in blood sweat, and tears....

[ToadBrother]

Intelligence agencies aren't really equipped/designed to understand 3000 years of Afghan barbarism and backwards culture.

Big mistake yeah, especially because there've been lessons learned before (Soviets, Alexander the Great, the Persians etc) but now what?

Actually Alexander did conquer the region... briefly. Of course, everything about Alexander's reign was brief.

[ToadBrother]

As for the Game....NATO will decide when the game is over....and as long as our allieds are over there risking thier lives we should be as well...our soldiers have recarved out our fighting abilities, regained our allieds trust in regards to dependabilty as soldiers....our soldiers have made this mission thiers because most Canadians dropped that ball long ago....this mission is almost at an end....we need to show the world we can and will stick by until then....anything else would be embrassing, and undo some of the work we've paided for in blood sweat, and tears....

I agree. Parliament, and a lot of Canadians in general, just don't get it. They seem to view our military as some sort of flashy piece of clothing. We can drape ourselves in it, declare our peaceful and loving we are, but ask our soldiers to actually go out and do what soldiers are supposed to do, and suddenly it's like "Oh my goodness, people get KILLED!!!!" They'll gladly put them in harms way in s***holes like the Balkans or Rwanda, with ridiculous rules of engagement, force them to act like their the g*dd*mned Peace Corps and then pat themselves on the back for being so "peaceable".

If I had my way, I would never involve Canadian soldiers in another peacekeeping mission again, unless they could perform forward operations, engage beligerants when tactically sensible, and basically be warriors. If you want friendly Canadian faces dolling out candy to children in hellholes, send out the NDP caucus.

Edited April 7, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Sir Bandelot]

I know you've been again'st this war since the start, so your off the hook, you hold no responsabilty for anyone actions....Yes. yes ....you've done your part to return the troops, you've attended rallys , joined a forum, to voice your displeasure....you've done your job as a citizen...If we where all thinking clearly we would have done things differently...

Thier vioce needs to be heard, we all owe them that much....

I agree they deserve to be heard. Maybe I sounded a little too dismissive, but that wasn't my intent.

I oppose the war, not because I don't want Afghanistan to be liberated from tyranny, but because I doubt that war is the best way to bring it about. I believe that the losses in war, not just for soldiers (who are willing to die for their country) but for the civilians caught up in it. I believe psychologically, emotionally, many of them will hate us more. They are uneducated. And although we look at their lives as if it's horrible, this is what they are used to. We put them through a deeper horror during the war because of the violence and the possibility of change which will only come about many decades later.

Just to clarify, as a Canadian, I don't believe I'm off the hook. And I don't like to pretend I know everything. I don't have all the information as to why, none of us does. But I know I've been lied to, plenty of times.

and as long as our allieds are over there risking thier lives we should be as well...our soldiers have recarved out our fighting abilities, regained our allieds trust in regards to dependabilty as soldiers....our soldiers have made this mission thiers because most Canadians dropped that ball long ago....this mission is almost at an end....we need to show the world we can and will stick by until then....anything else would be embrassing, and undo some of the work we've paided for in blood sweat, and tears....

I share your pain on that one. Once we're in the fight, it should be for all the way. The enemy does not take a vacation. Our troops deserve the credit. That won't happen if we cut and run at the end of the fight, after having done all the hard work. Then all we get is criticism, from people like Hillary Clinton.

[eyeball]

Speaking of people who just don't get it...it's not just the rules of engagement that piss many Canadians off, it's the reasons for getting engaged in the first place that's at issue.

The worst effect of Canada's engagement in this war is still to be felt, that'll be when it's glorified and used like previous engagements to justify the next one and the one after that and so on.

[eyeball]

Champ is the lawyer at the centre of several investigations into the alleged abuse of Afghan detainees. He said the NDS can't be trusted with detainees transferred into its custody by Canadian soldiers, and the Conservative government is well aware of this.

"Make no mistake, the methods of the NDS are well known," Champ told CBC News. "It's electric shocks, it's pulling out toenails, it's beating people with chains, it's hanging them for days. So when someone says abuse, that's a euphemism for torture."

The memo's assessment of the directorate seems to make use of that euphemism. It cautions Canada ought to be concerned about its longstanding relationship with the secret police.

"Canadian partnership in NDS projects without prior insight into its methods runs the risk of appearing to condone human rights abuses and acts which would be illegal under Canadian law," the document states.

Source

In similar fashion, our partnership in our ally's conflicts without prior insight into their root causes runs the risk of our sacrificing our principles to join them. That should at least be avoidable and directly preventable under Canadian law. I'd make it a legal requirement that full public inquiries and referendum be held before we ever allow Parliament to send our troops abroad ever again.

Especially given the fact that our Parliament is no longer in control of the government.

Edited April 7, 2010 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

In similar fashion, our partnership in our ally's conflicts without prior insight into their root causes runs the risk of our sacrificing our principles to join them. That should at least be avoidable and directly preventable under Canadian law.

They already are...see "Iraq". Canada's "principles" led directly to Afghanistan instead.

I'd make it a legal requirement that full public inquiries and referendum be held before we ever allow Parliament to send our troops abroad ever again.

In some cases, Parliament dodn't get any say in the matter. This is a more fundamental issue that cannot be solved by a referendum on everything including bus fares.

Especially given the fact that our Parliament is no longer in control of the government.

See above.

[M.Dancer]

...it's not just the rules of engagement that piss many Canadians off...

I'm not aware of any Canadians being pissed off at the ROE.