ToadBrother Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I agree. Only since WW II has it been the view (and only appplied against the West) that lands lost in war must be restored. Japan presented a unique situation whereby the country was transformed from a bitter enemy of the West to participant in the West. If the remaining enemies of the West joined hands with us and sang "Kumbaya" fine. I don't see Gazans doing that any time soon. And for all of that, they still don't have the Kurils. Simply put, you go to war and lose, you're going to lose territory and/or money, on top of casualties. The Israelis have actually been a helluva lot better than the Allies were after WWII. They certainly could have kept the Sinai Peninsula, for instance, but in the interests of peace, they gave it back to Egypt. Germany forever lost Danzig, Japan is never going to get the Kurils back, and any claims to Sakhalin they might have had are meaningless. The Arabs lost the Arab-Israeli War and every conflict since. Tough for the Palestinians, though I doubt many were ever shouting "Go Israel!" They should have been, because Israel is the only political entity in the region that can give them some of what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Here's a question for you to ponder, Gosthacked. Why is Jerusalem sacred to Muslims? Oleg puts up his hand...teacher teacher I know...cos the Muslims and the Jews are both Semites decended from Shem...in other words the ARABS ARE JEWS AND THE JEWS ARE ARABS....it all started when ABAB got pissed off at his brother for stealing a basket of carrots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Oleg puts up his hand...teacher teacher I know...cos the Muslims and the Jews are both Semites decended from Shem...in other words the ARABS ARE JEWS AND THE JEWS ARE ARABS....it all started when ABAB got pissed off at his brother for stealing a basket of carrots? Technically no. Arabs are a distinct ethno-linguistic group apart from Jews. Both spoke West Semitic languages, but Canaan, which is the birth place of the Hebrews, Canaanites and Phoenicians, were distinct from the Arabian peoples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Big Al pretty much put an end to the ol' Phoenician thing. Oleg...I said Muslims...not Arabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 They continue to spit in the face of U.S., the international community....Yes. Naomi, by surviving in the face of odds that no one thought they could surmount, they have spit in the face of haters throughout the world and history. Haters exemplified by books such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Mein Kampf, or people such as Khomeni (or pick your ayatollah or imam), Stalin, Hitler, Goebbels, et. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 Those are mostly Jewish religious settlements if I'm not mistaken. Does being a religious site warrant the Israeli settlement in the West bank? Is that the sole reason these settlements exist? If so, to me it's a pretty damn weak one. Remember...Hebron is the burial place of Abraham and a whole host of other Biblical figures. Other towns in the area are also deeply important to Christians and Jews. Bethlehem and Jericho for example. It seems to be pretty important to the Palestinians too. Let's not forget that as well. Unless we support ethnic cleansing, Of what Jews? This card is played again? You should have just gone straight to saying 'a second holocaust'. There seems to be an ethnic cleansing (screw it I hate this term) genocide going on for the last few decades. Israel has not solidified it's borders yet, and it seems through the barriers ect. they are expanding their borders. Cutting off several Arab communities from each other. Israel has indicated they are going to settle or finalize their borders in 2010, this year. I guess time will tell, but it's not encouraging. I see no reason why these Jewish and Christian settlers couldn't become Palestinian citizens if such a place ever comes to being. Do you? There are Muslim Arab Israelis, afterall. You are almost helping me define that it is an occupation. I know you don't disagree with me here. It seems obvious that these two groups can't/won't get a long, history shows that. This conflict won't stop until one or the other is driven from the land. Even when one was driven from the land in historic times, the grudge lasted a few millennium. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/2001/israel_and_the_palestinians/issues/1682594.stm Article from 2001 BBC. Israeli conquestIsrael regarded its capture of the West Bank from Jordan in June 1967 as an opportunity to re-unify East and West Jerusalem under exclusive Israeli control and set about achieving this in a systematic way. Israel removed the walls and barriers dividing the western and eastern sectors of the city. It then enacted legislation to put Arab East Jerusalem under Israeli civil law - as distinct from the military administration which governed the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Israel's annexation of the eastern sector of the city was accompanied by the redrawing of municipal boundaries, extending them northwards and southwards. Israel flag held aloft by Israelis celebrating 1967 victory Israel took control of East Jerusalem in 1967 In 1980 Israeli passed another law making its annexation of East Jerusalem explicit. Although a host of United Nations resolutions have censured Israel for its attempt to change the character and status of the city, Israel has ignored them all and continues to expand its control over the Palestinian areas of the city. So the UN wanted Jerusalem to be neutral territory for all peoples. Jews, Muslims and Christians. That currently is not the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 Gosthacked: Why is Jerusalem sacred to Muslims? GH: It seems to be pretty important to the Palestinians too. Let's not forget that as well. --- GH: Does being a religious site warrant the Israeli settlement in the West bank? Is that the sole reason these settlements exist? If so, to me it's a pretty damn weak one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 Of what Jews? This card is played again? You should have just gone straight to saying 'a second holocaust'. There seems to be an ethnic cleansing (screw it I hate this term) genocide going on for the last few decades. Israel has not solidified it's borders yet, and it seems through the barriers ect. they are expanding their borders. Cutting off several Arab communities from each other. Israel has indicated they are going to settle or finalize their borders in 2010, this year. I guess time will tell, but it's not encouraging. What genocide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 Gosthacked: Why is Jerusalem sacred to Muslims? --- You have really yet to refute my claim that it is an occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 You have really yet to refute my claim that it is an occupation. See the causes and results of the 1948 war, the 6 Day War and the Yom Kippur war. Understand what happened then talk about 'occupation'. Now, why is Jerusalem sacred to Muslims? GH: It seems to be pretty important to the Palestinians too. Let's not forget that as well. ---- GH: Does being a religious site warrant the Israeli settlement in the West bank? Is that the sole reason these settlements exist? If so, to me it's a pretty damn weak one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 Gosthacked: Why is Jerusalem sacred to Muslims? According to about.com (link) Jerusalem indeed had a few hours of fame in Islam. Excerpt below: Site of Night Journey and Ascension It is Jerusalem that Muhammad (peace be upon him) visited during his night journey and ascension (called Isra' and Mi'raj). In one evening, the angel Gabriel miraculously took the Prophet from the Sacred Mosque in Mecca to the Furthest Mosque (Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem. He was then taken up to the heavens to be shown the signs of God. The Prophet met with previous prophets and led them in prayer. He was then taken back to Mecca. The whole experience (which Muslim commentators take literally and Muslims believe as a miracle) lasted a few hours of a night. The event of Isra' and Mi'raj is mentioned in the Qur’an, in the first verse of Chapter 17 entitled 'The Children of Israel.’ "Glory to Allah, Who did take His servant for a journey by night, from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless - in order that We might show him some of Our signs. For He is the One who hears and knows all things." (Qur'an 17:1) This night journey further reinforced the link between Mecca and Jerusalem as holy cities, and serves as an example of every Muslim's deep devotion and spiritual connection with Jerusalem. It is the hope of every Muslim that the Holy Land will be restored to a land of peace. In other words, the camel Muhammed took his night flight on left some biological product of its meals on Jerusalem's pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 (edited) The Koran terms the place where Mohammad went to heaven w/ Gabriel (after a night flight aboard a 'winged beast' from Arabia...lol) as the 'furthest mosque'. It was Omar many years after Mohammad's death that claimed Jerusalem was, infact, the location of this spot. This was, naturally, right after he captured the city by siege. Jerusalem, of course, isn't even mentioned in the Koran...nor did Mohammad ever go there. As the Church Lady used to say... How convenient. During the earliest days of Islam, Mohammad sought to bring Jews into the 'fold' by having prayers done facing Jerusalem. This is also the reason many Jewish religious figures (and Christian) are termed prophets and apparently figure highly in Islam. Religious iconoclasm of a sort...your god is now my god...your saints are now our saints. Best convert, etc... Edited May 19, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 (edited) To expand further... To the average Muslim circa the Middle-Ages, Jerusalem meant diddly squat. When Sam Clemens toured the area in the mid-1800s, he thought the city was deserted as much of it was in ruin...including the Mosque of Omar and Al Aqsa. These were damaged in earthquakes and were never restored...until a certain figure known as Mohammad Haj Amin al-Husayni became Grand Mufti of Jerusalem appointed by the British right after WW1. He petitioned the various Muslim kingdoms looking for gold to rebuild the Temple Mount. He was successful. His reasons were two-fold... 1] He thought himself a direct descendant of the actual Mohammad. He deserved his spot in history...Islamic history in particular. In a sense, he achieved this in spades. 2] He sought to raise the prestiege of Jerusalem as a Muslim holy place...thus furthering his power and prestiege at the same time. He certainly achieved this. As the Jews returned to the area, his rhetoric as to how this was all very bad for Islam in general grew with their increasing numbers, resulting in numerous riots and pogroms. His family/clan still runs the religious dog n' pony show in the area. Most here are already familiar with the Mufti's Nazi past and direct connection to the Holocaust. To sum up...Jerusalem is important to Islam because it is very important to the other two major religions in the area. Edited May 19, 2010 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naomiglover Posted May 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Israel continues to spit in the face of international law and jbg and Dogsonporch continue to make excuses for them. I found it quite interesting that you, Dogsonporch, claimed to be a champion of human rights in another thread. You are a fascinating creature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Israel continues to spit in the face of international law and jbg and Dogsonporch continue to make excuses for them. I found it quite interesting that you, Dogsonporch, claimed to be a champion of human rights in another thread. You are a fascinating creature. Because Hamas,being a proxy for groups like Islamic Jihad (funded by the human rights icons in Iran),are such champions of human rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naomiglover Posted May 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Because Hamas,being a proxy for groups like Islamic Jihad (funded by the human rights icons in Iran),are such champions of human rights? What? Hamas is a proxy for Islamic Jihad? You're not making sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 What? Hamas is a proxy for Islamic Jihad? You're not making sense. It's fairly common knowledge that Hamas really has no way of funding itself.Because of it's "Destruction of Israel" stance,the like minded(and well funded) terrorist proxies funnel them funds and weapons.Islamic Jihad is an Iranian group based in Syria...They have been noted for assisting Hamas as a middle man in the arms and fund game...Those arms and funds coming from Tehran... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 What? Hamas is a proxy for Islamic Jihad? You're not making sense. With similar goals, Hamas and the PIJ have worked together on a number of attacks on Israel including a suicide bombing in Beit-Lid in February 1995 that killed eight Israelis and wounded fifty.[14] Proxy ism'y the right word...brothers in arms is better....and both are committed to human rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naomiglover Posted May 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Both Jack Weber, who seems to be ignorant on the basic information on groups in this conflict and their relationships, and also M.Dancer, who doesn't miss an opportunity to try to cover mistakes made by those who cheer for the same team, seem to be okay with a group breaking international law because another group has. Thank you for giving your positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Proxy ism'y the right word...brothers in arms is better....and both are committed to human rights Thanks,Dancer.. You're right,"proxy"is'nt the right term...Yours is better...They're quite the Human Rights Advocates! And Naomi...Your welcome for knowing my position... It's simply this...Islamofascism is the problem(note I did not say Islam!)Hamas is an arm of that ideology.The Palestinians had a chande to change things after the Israeli's moved out of Gaza. What was the Palestinian response? 1.Destroy perfectly good and legitimate business's that couls have provided a modicum of economic opportunity. 2.Elect Hamas 3.Lob rockets into Israeli border towns on defensless Israeli citizens Back in the '90's,Arafat got the best deal he was ever going to get,and he turned it down. The Islomofascists do NOT want peace...They want death...And hopefully they will get it in due course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 naiomiglover = yvonne ridley Imagine a big poster of George Galloway on her wall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 naiomiglover = yvonne ridley Imagine a big poster of George Galloway on her wall... What a bunch of winners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 What a bunch of winners... Whenever she posts...I imagine Yvonne...burqa and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Whenever she posts...I imagine Yvonne...burqa and all. Who was that other nutjob from California who was helping boat in supplies during the Israeli offensive last year... She's another one minus a few cogent thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Who was that other nutjob from California who was helping boat in supplies during the Israeli offensive last year... She's another one minus a few cogent thoughts.... Not sure..but California universities are hotbeds of Jihadist activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.