Israel continues to spit in the face of international law

[naomiglover]

They continue to spit in the face of U.S., the international community and in the face of peace. However, this time they've chosen to make it as blatant as possible.

The obama administration has no choice but to try to save face now. We'll see how powerful the Israeli lobby is in shutting up the U.S. administration's rare vocal opposition on Israel's actions. I find Bibi's actions quite arrogant. He's either stupid or he has faith in the power of the Israeli lobby. We have reached an interesting collision course.

Edited March 18, 2010 by naomiglover

[KeyStone]

They continue to spit in the face of U.S., the international community and in the face of peace. However, this time they've chosen to make it blatant as possible.

The obama administration has no choice but to try to save face now. We'll see how powerful the Israeli lobby is in shutting up the U.S. administration's rare vocal opposition on Israel's actions. I find Bibi's actions quite arrogant. He's either stupid or he has faith in the power of the Israeli lobby. We have reached an interesting collision course.

I'm surprised that Israel gave permission for the Canadian government to 'regret' their actions.

I find it hysterical that Harper encourages both sides to get back to the negotiating table, as if we now have any credibility with the Palestinian side whatsoever.

[wyly]

They continue to spit in the face of U.S., the international community and in the face of peace. However, this time they've chosen to make it blatant as possible.

The obama administration has no choice but to try to save face now. We'll see how powerful the Israeli lobby is in shutting up the U.S. administration's rare vocal opposition on Israel's actions. I find Bibi's actions quite arrogant. He's either stupid or he has faith in the power of the Israeli lobby. We have reached an interesting collision course.

or he's very smart...if he stops the building on his own his coalition would collapse, with the US pressing he might use that as an excuse to get the hardliners to back off...

[naomiglover]

or he's very smart...if he stops the building on his own his coalition would collapse, with the US pressing he might use that as an excuse to get the hardliners to back off...

True. He needs the backing of the ultra rightwing to stay in power. Making Biden, a self-proclaimed zionist, look like an insignificant ass was worth the message he wants to send to the coalition. It's quite possible that he will stop (freeze) the settlements and blame it on the Obama administration and then call following international law, a "painful concession".

[wyly]

True. He needs the backing of the ultra rightwing to stay in power. Making Biden, a self-proclaimed zionist, look like an insignificant ass was worth the message he wants to send to the coalition. It's quite possible that he will stop (freeze) the settlements and blame it on the Obama administration and then call following international law, a "painful concession".

was that cliché that's been in the news lately, about a crisis being an opportunity that should never be wasted ...

[Oleg Bach]

When my brother and I sued a Jewish orgainization connected to the Jewish Canadian Congress, I was astounded how these lest we forget never again gang had completely forgotten the favour and sacrafice that was granted by people like my father an Orthodox Christian who beat back the Nazis and saved thousands of Jewish lives - Yet the grand children of these people saw fit to beat us into the ground..arrogance and forgetfulness is their weakness and sin.

As I said years ago America will abandon this out post called Israel in time and they will have to fend for themselves - nukes or no nukes it is not going to be pretty - HOW ABOUT A THANK YOU NOTE TO ALL THE CHRISTIANS AND THEIR DECENDANTS THAT SAVED THEIR SORRY ASSES? Not likely - they have simply forgotten..and don't give a f**K ---You don't care about me...I don't care about you! No more mister nice guy I say.

[Oleg Bach]

The term community - and international community has the context of mutual respect and co-operation contained in the phrase - Israel does not grasp this idea. They have had over half a century to manuvure into and plan friendship with their neighbours - but they never held a common and healthy sense of compromise that must be executed to create a safe and civilized atmosphere in the area..It was not the Arabs per say that caused their great paranoia that their small nation was based on - It was the anglo -germanics out of Europe and Britian that were through their blind eye policy that brought about the holocausts and extended suffering - If Isreal were smart they would team up with the other shemites - Arabs...and tell the anglo germanics to go to hell - It was the anglo germanics that betrayed them and later bribed them into compliance.

[Bonam]

As I said years ago America will abandon this out post called Israel in time and they will have to fend for themselves - nukes or no nukes it is not going to be pretty

Israel fended for itself just fine before it received American support. In fact, they arguably did better than after they received it, since American support comes with a lot of strings attached.

- HOW ABOUT A THANK YOU NOTE TO ALL THE CHRISTIANS AND THEIR DECENDANTS THAT SAVED THEIR SORRY ASSES? Not likely - they have simply forgotten..and don't give a f**K ---You don't care about me...I don't care about you! No more mister nice guy I say.

I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of Jewish organizations having expressed gratitude to the nations that helped to stop Nazi Germany during WWII, if you cared to look rather than ranting about how evil Jews are.

That being said, in case you didn't notice the whole "saving" thing came a bit late, after a large majority of Central and Eastern Europe's Jewish population had already been exterminated. In fact, some of the allied nations that eventually defeated Hitler were partly responsible for what happened to many Jews. For example, Britain had a policy of preventing Jews from emigrating to Palestine during the war and also after the war, which led to many Jews being unable to escape Europe and instead be caught up in the Holocaust.

[Oleg Bach]

STOP right there my friend - I am not ranting or hating Jews - and YOU are attempting to create some sort of politically correct attack against me and perhaps label me an anti-something - you are completely wrong- Yes I do believe that the leadership in Israel have no sense of gratitude towards those that allowed them to be born - for the most part the leadership like in most places is a crimminal enterprise while the common person suffers under these hoods - The Jews are fine - but the empire building crooks who have an agenda of expansionism are not fine> They that run the show do not give a damn for Arabs - Christians - and for that matter Jews - they are buisness men who refuse to give up even a penny of that corporate state.

Israel like AMERICA is a buisness - in effect a company...if it is profitable to a few super rich empire builders to expand they will expand. The habitualness of profit taking is an impossible behaviour to curb. SO as they attempt to prosper they head for a dead end - as America crumbles in international stature there will be no big brother to protect their fellow gangsters - so the time is running out - and Obama is not a simple AMERICAN regime change - it is a coup and shift - Isreal will not be able to keep up with the changing times..they are institutionalized to the degree of stupidity.

Again - one can speak against AMERICAN policy and not hate AMERICAN people - as one can speak against Israeli attitude and not hate the Jews _ for you to insinuate hate is like saying that I hate all black people - I do not - to do not approve of crimminal behaviour - on the street level or the laundered version of crimminality that seems to be the status quo...sorry - but you will not find a hater here.

But _ I do sense that you might want to stimulate some hate towards me...why?

[Bonam]

STOP right there my friend - I am not ranting or hating Jews - and YOU are attempting to create some sort of politically correct attack against me and perhaps label me an anti-something - you are completely wrong...

No I was not "stimulating hate" against your nor accusing you of "anti-something". I was pointing out that if you cared to take a look you would find plenty of examples of that which you claim does not exist. Why do you claim it does not exist? Assuming (as I did) that you are not explicitly lying, it is probably because you simply have not bothered to check and find out.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Bonam

[Oleg Bach]

No I was not "stimulating hate" against your nor accusing you of "anti-something". I was pointing out that if you cared to take a look you would find plenty of examples of that which you claim does not exist. Why do you claim it does not exist? Assuming (as I did) that you are not explicitly lying, it is probably because you simply have not bothered to check and find out.

IT could be due to experience. AS mentioned my younger brother is married to a French Canadian Catholic..she was once married to this Jewish gentleman..My brother had to infant children with her. SHE had some sort of break down and a dash of greed when it was rumored that her former husband had come into a lot of money - so she decieded to jettison the two children - she dumped them off with an orgainzation called at the time Jewish Family Services - It was a Jewish child protection agency - the kids were not Jews - nor was she - nor was my brother - It took 7 months and a law suit that stretched all the way to the Supreme Court of CANADA - to retrive these boys - and re-unite the family..the kids suffered under these bureacrats and were being slowly destroyed...having said that.

I THOUGHT of how my father operating as a double agent in occupied Paris - killed a large group of Nazi officers at their command head quarters - and by doing so - saved lives - and the lives of many French Jews. BUT - the new generation treated my family with disrespect as if we were trash and inferiour - "Nominal Christians" is the way they described my family..some of these socialist burearcats and social engineers had no concept of the past and the duty of protecting all of those being attacked ...they were the new generation - and they simply did not remember of care - I assume that this attitude is pervasive in Israel. It might be a bias on my part and my experience could be an isolated incident - but I doubt it.

Speaking to an Israeli at the court house I heard this profound line - "I do not believe in God but I do believe in the state of Israel" _THAT shows that the "choosen" may have broken the contract with God..and are no longer fit to be protected - perhaps I am wrong.

[Bonam]

IT could be due to experience. AS mentioned my younger brother is married to a French Canadian Catholic..she was once married to this Jewish gentleman..My brother had to infant children with her. SHE had some sort of break down and a dash of greed when it was rumored that her former husband had come into a lot of money - so she decieded to jettison the two children - she dumped them off with an orgainzation called at the time Jewish Family Services - It was a Jewish child protection agency - the kids were not Jews - nor was she - nor was my brother - It took 7 months and a law suit that stretched all the way to the Supreme Court of CANADA - to retrive these boys - and re-unite the family..the kids suffered under these bureacrats and were being slowly destroyed...having said that.

Your experience is truly unfortunate. I suspect there is also more to the story, the women may quite possibly have had her reasons besides "greed". That being said, I don't know anything about this besides what you've mentioned so I'll avoid commenting further.

I THOUGHT of how my father operating as a double agent in occupied Paris - killed a large group of Nazi officers at their command head quarters - and by doing so - saved lives - and the lives of many French Jews. BUT - the new generation treated my family with disrespect as if we were trash and inferiour - "Nominal Christians" is the way they described my family..some of these socialist burearcats and social engineers had no concept of the past and the duty of protecting all of those being attacked ...they were the new generation - and they simply did not remember of care - I assume that this attitude is pervasive in Israel. It might be a bias on my part and my experience could be an isolated incident - but I doubt it.

So you feel you and your brother should be rewarded based on the actions of your father? Should people also be punished for the actions of their fathers or other ancestor? This view is not very common in the modern Western world.

Speaking to an Israeli at the court house I heard this profound line - "I do not believe in God but I do believe in the state of Israel" _THAT shows that the "choosen" may have broken the contract with God..and are no longer fit to be protected - perhaps I am wrong.

Israel is a nation with the same right to exist as any other nation. This has nothing to do with belief in god. I, too, do not believe in any vengeful magical beings and yet support Israel. Completely unrelated topics.

[Argus]

They continue to spit in the face of U.S., the international community and in the face of peace. However, this time they've chosen to make it as blatant as possible.

Realistically, there is no way, chance, hope or prayer of Palestinians ever getting Arab Jeruselem back other than through war. It is and will remain the capital of Israel as long as Israel exists, and the Palestinians need to get past that and concentrate on other things. They've held up negotiations over this issue and the right of return - another pointless non-resolvable claim - for years now.

And in fact, they don't deserve to get any part of the city back given their treatment of other religious groups and their places of worship back when they had control. The Israelis have been a lot more respectful towards holy sites than the Muslims ever were.

[Oleg Bach]

Your experience is truly unfortunate. I suspect there is also more to the story, the women may quite possibly have had her reasons besides "greed". That being said, I don't know anything about this besides what you've mentioned so I'll avoid commenting further.

So you feel you and your brother should be rewarded based on the actions of your father? Should people also be punished for the actions of their fathers or other ancestor? This view is not very common in the modern Western world.

Israel is a nation with the same right to exist as any other nation. This has nothing to do with belief in god. I, too, do not believe in any vengeful magical beings and yet support Israel. Completely unrelated topics.

Speaking of the poor and disgarded that live on the streets of Toronto - It was their fathers and grandfathers that built the infrastructure and wealth of this nation..slaves are to be respected as are the children of these loyal servants.

Israel and the protection of it is and always was based on the Christian fact that they are a special people with a historically special connection to God - it is called the covenant - or contract--THAT was the basis of the attitude of treating this small and new nation as a protectorate..now that they are secualar I would safely say that the contract is breeched.

[Oleg Bach]

Further more as for my brothers situation the woman was base - a simple and vile.....and an idot that actually believed that she could control the system...when asked why she went to a Jewish agency she confided in a very honest and stero typical way...

That she was Jewish - but knew little about the faith and most importantly "The Jews have more money" - By the time the feminist social engineers figured out that this woman was a liar and a user..it was to late - They spent a lot of money on their defense fund - and I bleed them dry to the point they had to down size and reform their board of directors...

NOW the family is united and functional - If I did not put up a fight on my rubish brothers behalf - they would have destroyed the family utterly - including the woman - It was a rescue mission and a punitive affair that lasted five years - are real waste of time - except for the salvation of my nephews and the restortation of the families honour - Honour is not very exceptable by most these days...IF this system I mentioned believes you like a dog do not know you are being abused they will abuse you and employ people doing so ---IF they figure out that you have teeth and can bring them distress they stay away.

AS for fathers and grand fathers being honoured and familiar rights being kept dignifyied _ I guess I am very old school - it was quite the adventure - two mythical brothers with swords drawn back to back fighting off a thousand invaders...all for honour and the right to be free!

[Oleg Bach]

WHAT I DID LEARN in my interaction with the Jewish elite is that they have trained their children to believe they are superiour and should have great control in the creation of an ideal society engineered by their intellectuals - the other thing I learned is that even when the Jews wanted to privately settle - their anglo masters would not allow it..Ultimately America and the AMERICAN anglo elite will have the last say over what happens to Israel - I just hope the foolish young Jews understand that they are not in power and they had better compromise - Because being a constant irritant has it's limits-- and the tolerating anglo elite..will eventually turn away...they will not surive on their own - nukes or no nukes..Israel had better mature and drop this horrific and prideful attitude ..the middle east belongs to all shemites not one particular clan called Jew.

[ToadBrother]

WHAT I DID LEARN in my interaction with the Jewish elite is that they have trained their children to believe they are superiour and should have great control in the creation of an ideal society engineered by their intellectuals - the other thing I learned is that even when the Jews wanted to privately settle - their anglo masters would not allow it..Ultimately America and the AMERICAN anglo elite will have the last say over what happens to Israel - I just hope the foolish young Jews understand that they are not in power and they had better compromise - Because being a constant irritant has it's limits-- and the tolerating anglo elite..will eventually turn away...they will not surive on their own - nukes or no nukes..Israel had better mature and drop this horrific and prideful attitude ..the middle east belongs to all shemites not one particular clan called Jew.

Well, at least we can discard any notion that this thread doesn't deal with anti-Semitism.

[naomiglover]

"The Quartet urges the government of Israel to freeze all settlement activity, including natural growth, dismantle outposts erected since March 2001 and to refrain from demolitions and evictions in East Jerusalem," Mr Ban said.

"Recalling that the annexation of East Jerusalem is not recognised by the international community, the Quartet underscores that the status of Jerusalem is a permanent status issue that must be resolved through negotiations between the parties, and condemns the decision by the government of Israel to advance planning for new housing units in East Jerusalem."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8575723.stm

The painful concession awaits.

[Oleg Bach]

Well, at least we can discard any notion that this thread doesn't deal with anti-Semitism.

ANY BAD BEHAVIOUR- i AM ANTI- It does not matter what group - if you are acting like jerks I will mention it...this deversion towards anti-semitism is old hat and does not fly..If I judge with my own good perception - I would be called anti-everybody - I have no favorites.

[Shady]

Actions have consequences. Israel's current settlement building is a direct result of Washington's incompetent negotiation policy. For whatever reasons, the Obama administration started off with the '67 borders as the beginning of the two-state talks. That's Israel's only real bargaining chip. For them, that's the last piece to be negotiated, not a starting point.

By making that the starting point, you cut the legs out of any leverage Israel has in making a deal with the Palestinians. But it's what happens when amateurs like Obama are elected to office.

[Smallc]

Actions have consequences. Israel's current settlement building is a direct result of Washington's incompetent negotiation policy.

Oh please. It's as a result of the fact that the Israeli government, the current one in particular, has no real interest in a two state solution.

But, I suppose any chance to show your ODS will do.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Smallc

[Shady]

Oh please. It's as a result of the fact that the Israeli government, the current one in particular, has no real interest in a two state solution.

But, I suppose any chance to show your ODS will do.

Are you denying the fact that Washington began negotiations with the '67 borders? Instead of name calling, try to response to actual facts, instead of ignoring them.

[Smallc]

Are you denying the fact that Washington began negotiations with the '67 borders? Instead of name calling, try to response to actual facts, instead of ignoring them.

I don't need to respond to actual facts in this case. You're trying to blame America for Israeli aggression. That's just silly. It's like, "well, they made them do it."

There's no excuse, no matter what America is doing right or wrong in the negotiations.

[naomiglover]

I don't need to respond to actual facts in this case. You're trying to blame America for Israeli aggression. That's just silly. It's like, "well, they made them do it."

There's no excuse, no matter what America is doing right or wrong in the negotiations.

He is not trying to blame America. He is trying to blame Obama because Shady is stuck in his Republican vs Democrat world. Shady is simply taking a que from the puppet masters of the American political circus.

[Shady]

I don't need to respond to actual facts in this case. You're trying to blame America for Israeli aggression. That's just silly. It's like, "well, they made them do it."

There's no excuse, no matter what America is doing right or wrong in the negotiations.

So you're still not willing to admit to the facts. Fair enough, continue your name calling then. But I'm not giving Israel a free pass. I think what they're doing is wrong. That being said, the Obama administration has been chilling American/Israeli relations since he took office. And actions have consequences. Now they're having to deal with some of them.