MPP hints at motion at Queens Park to make Toronto 11th Province

[nicky10013]

http://www.thestar.com/yourcitymycity/article/780571--should-toronto-go-it-alone?bn=1

Interesting points by the author and commentators. Would allow the Ontario province to focus more on rural issues while Toronto could handle it's own urban issues. I personally like it as just within the borders of the "city of Toronto" 11 billion in GST and PST fly out the door. Being able to keep approximately 62% of that money would lead to a gigantic cash infusion that would lead to upgrades to services across the GTA. Creates the problem of "Where does Toronto end?" You'd have to include the 4 surrounding regions, possibly further.

Oh, have I mentioned yet that it'll NEVER happen? Oh well, it's an interesting discussion.

[msdogfood]

this is so stupid!.

[Shwa]

Hilarious rebuttal by Rosie DiManno in today's Star.

I doubt The Kingdom of Toronto would be able to keep all that coin. Think: equalization payments.

The Kingdom of Toronto has defined boundaries. I doubt Durham, Halton, Peel or York would join. Well, maybe York would. And if it meant giving up Pickering to stay out of the Kingdom of Toronto, I am sure the Region of Durham would jump at that chance.

[Wild Bill]

http://www.thestar.com/yourcitymycity/article/780571--should-toronto-go-it-alone?bn=1

Interesting points by the author and commentators. Would allow the Ontario province to focus more on rural issues while Toronto could handle it's own urban issues. I personally like it as just within the borders of the "city of Toronto" 11 billion in GST and PST fly out the door. Being able to keep approximately 62% of that money would lead to a gigantic cash infusion that would lead to upgrades to services across the GTA. Creates the problem of "Where does Toronto end?" You'd have to include the 4 surrounding regions, possibly further.

Oh, have I mentioned yet that it'll NEVER happen? Oh well, it's an interesting discussion.

Why stop at being a province? Make Toronto its own country! It has little or nothing in common with the rest of Canada anyway.

If the math is indeed true that Toronto gives more than it takes, why not put it to the test?

If Toronto would elect a David Miller, somehow I really doubt if they could make it financially on their own.

[Topaz]

One of the worse things that the Harris era did was expand Toronto and try to get counties into one municipality. I think the county of kent was the only county to go to a municipality besides Toronto. I hear from friends that since the city of Chatham have more people, when it comes for voting they always have the upper hand who is elected. People outside of the city rather go back to the way it was.

[nicky10013]

Why stop at being a province? Make Toronto its own country! It has little or nothing in common with the rest of Canada anyway.

If the math is indeed true that Toronto gives more than it takes, why not put it to the test?

If Toronto would elect a David Miller, somehow I really doubt if they could make it financially on their own.

You live in Stoney Creek. Do you have nothing in common with the rest of Canada?

[nicky10013]

One of the worse things that the Harris era did was expand Toronto and try to get counties into one municipality. I think the county of kent was the only county to go to a municipality besides Toronto. I hear from friends that since the city of Chatham have more people, when it comes for voting they always have the upper hand who is elected. People outside of the city rather go back to the way it was.

When you have more people, that generally denotes more power in terms of democracy. One person one vote, right? At the very least this should at least bring up the idea of further amalgamation in the GTA; amalgamation if not politically then at least service oriented. There are about 7 different transit organizations, each town handles its own section of road repair despite the fact that the roads go through multiple jurisdictions, water, sewer, garbage, snow removal and even policing. If these could be streamlined into single, GTA wide organizations it could save a lot of money. Essentially do to all services what they're trying to do with the Metrolinx. Except give the organizations teeth to work with. Metrolinx is useless and designed to be useless.

[Argus]

I've often felt canada would be better off if Ontario was split into four provinces; northern, eastern, western, and southern. The four parts don't have a lot in common anyway, and Canada wouldn't have the same lopsided feature of having just 2 of its 11 provinces with more population than all the others combined.

Did I mention I think Quebec should be broken up too?

[Smallc]

Why stop at being a province? Make Toronto its own country! It has little or nothing in common with the rest of Canada anyway.

You mean it has nothing in common with you. I was in Toronto, and I liked it a great deal. I'd live there in a second if I could.

[Argus]

You mean it has nothing in common with you. I was in Toronto, and I liked it a great deal. I'd live there in a second if I could.

Toronto is a very dirty city with little I found attractive. The traffic is horrible. I also had a much easier time making myself understood in Montreal than in Toronto. Few of the service people appear to be very fluent in English.

[M.Dancer]

Toronto is a very dirty city with little I found attractive. The traffic is horrible. I also had a much easier time making myself understood in Montreal than in Toronto. Few of the service people appear to be very fluent in English.

Ummmm....Have you considered ity might be your english?

[Michael Hardner]

One of the worse things that the Harris era did was expand Toronto and try to get counties into one municipality. I think the county of kent was the only county to go to a municipality besides Toronto. I hear from friends that since the city of Chatham have more people, when it comes for voting they always have the upper hand who is elected. People outside of the city rather go back to the way it was.

Prince Edward County also did it, and other cities became 'megacities' such as Hamilton, and Ottawa.

[Smallc]

Toronto is a very dirty city with little I found attractive. The traffic is horrible. I also had a much easier time making myself understood in Montreal than in Toronto. Few of the service people appear to be very fluent in English.

Toronto was barely even dirty during the garbage strike. It's a beautiful city with one of the world's most impressive skylines.

[nicky10013]

Toronto is a very dirty city with little I found attractive. The traffic is horrible. I also had a much easier time making myself understood in Montreal than in Toronto. Few of the service people appear to be very fluent in English.

I live here, don't speak anything but english and have NEVER had a problem. Perhaps you're just one of those people, for whatever reason, can't or will refuse to understand anyone who has the slightest hint of any accent?

[nicky10013]

Toronto was barely even dirty during the garbage strike. It's a beautiful city with one of the world's most impressive skylines.

Well, that's not exactly true. It got really bad towards the end. They had dumps in city rinks which were nasty. However, just walking down the street, I found it more dirty, but less dirty than some other cities I've been to that don't have their garbage services halted for a couple months.

[Smallc]

However, just walking down the street, I found it more dirty, but less dirty than some other cities I've been to that don't have their garbage services halted for a couple months.

That's what I was talking about. Other than Regina, I've found most Canadian cities I've been to are very clean in general.

[Mr.Canada]

That's what I was talking about. Other than Regina, I've found most Canadian cities I've been to are very clean in general.

This is a great idea. Toronto is forever trying to tell the rest of us how to live and are passing laws which hurt rural people. Most city people have no little to no understanding of the issues that are in rural Canada. To be honest I doubt they even think about people who live outside TO, it's as if they don't exist to them.

[BrassTax]

This is a great idea. Toronto is forever trying to tell the rest of us how to live and are passing laws which hurt rural people. Most city people have no little to no understanding of the issues that are in rural Canada. To be honest I doubt they even think about people who live outside TO, it's as if they don't exist to them.

I'd love to see explicit examples of "Toronto" telling the rest of Canada what to do. It's very short-sighted (but it is your opinion after all) to say TO doesnt think you exist. Unless you're thinking of Bay St; Canada's financial centre. In that case you're spot on.

Ridiculous idea, but if Toronto did seperate per se and get more of it's share of the pie I don't see much in the way of it be squandered. TTC anyone?

[nicky10013]

This is a great idea. Toronto is forever trying to tell the rest of us how to live and are passing laws which hurt rural people. Most city people have no little to no understanding of the issues that are in rural Canada. To be honest I doubt they even think about people who live outside TO, it's as if they don't exist to them.

That's such a ridiculous notion. Of course people in Toronto don't think of rural people. Just like rural people don't think of Torontonians. Both are focusing on more important things, like their everyday lives. Just because what people do for their everyday lives may be different due to the environment they live in doesn't make one side inherently better or worse.

[Michael Hardner]

This is a great idea. Toronto is forever trying to tell the rest of us how to live and are passing laws which hurt rural people. Most city people have no little to no understanding of the issues that are in rural Canada. To be honest I doubt they even think about people who live outside TO, it's as if they don't exist to them.

In fact, the rural people of Canada and the US have representation out of proportion to their numbers. So you end up with issues that favour rural people getting more traction. An example of this phenomenon is gun laws.

One thing that rural people do get shorted on is attention, though. If I turn on Canadian television, I see Toronto neighbourhoods constantly, not so many shots of Airdrie Alberta.

[nicky10013]

I'd love to see explicit examples of "Toronto" telling the rest of Canada what to do. It's very short-sighted (but it is your opinion after all) to say TO doesnt think you exist. Unless you're thinking of Bay St; Canada's financial centre. In that case you're spot on.

Ridiculous idea, but if Toronto did seperate per se and get more of it's share of the pie I don't see much in the way of it be squandered. TTC anyone?

Bingo, there'd be a gigantic flow of cash into the city. Within the city limits of Toronto (not even in the GTA) 11 billion in provincial and federal taxes leaves Toronto to be spent in other regions. Clearly Toronto becoming a province wouldn't regain all of that, assuming PST rates stay the same, 62% of that 11 billion would be immediately available for use in infrastructre upgrades. That extra money could also be dumped straight into the hospitals and health care, a lot of which are already some of the best in the world (Sick Kids, Toronto General, Princess Margaret).

[nicky10013]

In fact, the rural people of Canada and the US have representation out of proportion to their numbers. So you end up with issues that favour rural people getting more traction. An example of this phenomenon is gun laws.

One thing that rural people do get shorted on is attention, though. If I turn on Canadian television, I see Toronto neighbourhoods constantly, not so many shots of Airdrie Alberta.

Yeah, but that's what happens when you have a free media. More happens in Toronto both good and bad simply because more people live in Toronto than anywhere else.

[bush_cheney2004]

In fact, the rural people of Canada and the US have representation out of proportion to their numbers. So you end up with issues that favour rural people getting more traction. An example of this phenomenon is gun laws.

Point of order: "gun laws" in the US are directly related to the nation's constitution, not the population density in Alaska or Wyoming.

[nicky10013]

Point of order: "gun laws" in the US are directly related to the nation's constitution, not the population density in Alaska or Wyoming.

In terms of the actual politics of gun control, the constitution doesn't matter. You can move for further gun control, or even a constitutional amendment, however, there are so many seats to be won in rural counties as opposed to cities that there's much more to win to pander towards the NRA and rednecks than people in cities who, arguably are far more affected by guns than rural people because lets face it, people who live in rural areas face the loaded end of a weapon far less than people in the inner cities.

[Michael Hardner]

Point of order: "gun laws" in the US are directly related to the nation's constitution, not the population density in Alaska or Wyoming.

That's not the only factor that comes into play, obviously.