Can't compete with immigrants.

[mikedavid00]

The people willing to work for lower wages are not greedy. The owners, bosses, managers, CEO's...it's all up to them.

False.

It's actually up to our gov't to defend our borders. We the people own the borders and should be able to dictate who gets let through.

This has never happened. The gov't is creating these policies on their own agenda.

Man who know me from years past know I was a Conservative supporting. Come on. This is Mikedavid00 after all. Since then, I have become radicalized so to speak and am anti gov't period. Liberal, Conservative, they are all the same. The Con's wont do anything about family sponsorship because they have this dream that one day the immigrants are going to elect them in. The Liberals known as 'the immigrant party' (it really is in ethnic newspapers and 3rd world news papers) has an agenda of letting the 3rd world flood into different parts of Canada that already have HUGE unemployment rates and no jobs. This is simply to gain the Liberals more seats.

Yesterday looked promising for me. Speak of the devil I finally got a recruiter to look at my resume for a RARE job that came in. DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID?

"It's been the longest time since we've got an non-bilingual position."

Now the odds are VERY MUCH against me that I will make it through the process. But why? BECAUSE I HAVE TO COMPETE WITH 80 OTHER immigrants who aren't even citizens, holding papers, and have are much more hungry than I am to get the milk and honey. I'm hungry, but with them, they do ANYTHING.. they will lie, bs, you name it to get in. And the employers LOVE them. I keep things honest and fair.

And DON'T lecture me about low pay, this is much lower than I feel I should be paid, but at least it's a job. WHY OH WHY do I have to compete up against people who surveys show don't even identify themselves as Canadian?

WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE HERE FOR?? MY EI IS RUNNING OUT NEXT WEEK AND I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING AND HAVE TO COMPETE WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO THE GOV'T LET IN ON THEIR OWN POLITICS AND POLICIES. IS SOMEONE LISTENING FROM THE GOV'T???

[bloodyminded]

False.

It's actually up to our gov't to defend our borders. We the people own the borders and should be able to dictate who gets let through.

This has never happened. The gov't is creating these policies on their own agenda.

Fair enough. But still, no one, but no one, is forcing companies to hire anyone--immigrant or not--at lower-than-usual wages.

That is their choice. Entirely their choice.

There seems to be an astonishing tendency (certianly, derived from free market theory) that a business is not responsible for its own actions. So long as they making business sense, pleasing their ownners and/or shareholders, then there can be no quesiton of wrongdoing.

I think this is incorrect. I take the radical-left view (borrowed heavily from the major religions and of every single moral philosophy worht its salt) that moral considerations always matter. Even when one is making tons of money.

So yes...it is business's fault--100% their fault--if they choose to hire low-wage workers over anyone else.

We can defend their actions in various ways. But IF it is wrong--then they are the chief agents of this wrong.

Yesterday looked promising for me. Speak of the devil I finally got a recruiter to look at my resume for a RARE job that came in. DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID?

"It's been the longest time since we've got an non-bilingual position."

Now the odds are VERY MUCH against me that I will make it through the process. But why? BECAUSE I HAVE TO COMPETE WITH 80 OTHER immigrants who aren't even citizens, holding papers, and have are much more hungry than I am to get the milk and honey. I'm hungry, but with them, they do ANYTHING.. they will lie, bs, you name it to get in. And the employers LOVE them. I keep things honest and fair.

And DON'T lecture me about low pay, this is much lower than I feel I should be paid, but at least it's a job. WHY OH WHY do I have to compete up against people who surveys show don't even identify themselves as Canadian?

WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE HERE FOR?? MY EI IS RUNNING OUT NEXT WEEK AND I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING AND HAVE TO COMPETE WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO THE GOV'T LET IN ON THEIR OWN POLITICS AND POLICIES. IS SOMEONE LISTENING FROM THE GOV'T???

I understand, your situation is highly distressing, and stressful for you. I don't dispute that at all.

Edited March 12, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Michael Hardner]

Is that what I said? I suggest you try harder to understand.

NO country in the world opens their doors and allows a person from another Country to openly compete for jobs with the citizens of their country

[Bonam]

WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE HERE FOR?? MY EI IS RUNNING OUT NEXT WEEK AND I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING AND HAVE TO COMPETE WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO THE GOV'T LET IN ON THEIR OWN POLITICS AND POLICIES. IS SOMEONE LISTENING FROM THE GOV'T???

If your government handout is running out next week perhaps you should spend more time looking for a job and less time whining on forums?

Yesterday looked promising for me. Speak of the devil I finally got a recruiter to look at my resume for a RARE job that came in. DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID?

"It's been the longest time since we've got an non-bilingual position."

If you are working in a field where the majority of positions require one to be bilingual, another good way to spend your time would be learning French. It only takes a few months to a year if you work hard at it.

[waldo]

Yesterday looked promising for me. Speak of the devil I finally got a recruiter to look at my resume for a RARE job that came in. DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID?

"It's been the longest time since we've got an non-bilingual position."

taking your statement at face value - if the majority of jobs you're applying for include a bilingual requirement or preference... my experience doesn't speak well for "immigrants" being considered for those jobs, when English isn't even their first language, let alone French.

Now the odds are VERY MUCH against me that I will make it through the process. But why? BECAUSE I HAVE TO COMPETE WITH 80 OTHER immigrants who aren't even citizens, holding papers, and have are much more hungry than I am to get the milk and honey. I'm hungry, but with them, they do ANYTHING.. they will lie, bs, you name it to get in. And the employers LOVE them. I keep things honest and fair.

let's accept you're generalizing and there is a disproportionate number of immigrants applying for the same jobs as you... even then, the only means an immigrant applicant (any applicant) has to "lie, bs" is blatantly and directly via "resume/reference fabrication", "exaggerating experience", etc. I'm not clear how you would have any direct knowledge of this having occurred. In any case, the interview process is designed to weed these potential fabrications out.

And DON'T lecture me about low pay, this is much lower than I feel I should be paid, but at least it's a job. WHY OH WHY do I have to compete up against people who surveys show don't even identify themselves as Canadian?

are you absolutely sure you're not grouping 2nd, 3rd generation Canadians into your assessment?

[wyly]

interesting article in the G&M today in regards to a meat processing plant in Brandon, Canadians didn't want the work..they experienced high turnovers in personnel...the company (Maple Leaf I think) had to recruit outside the country, China, Mexico, Honduras, Ukraine and now they have a stable work force and the workers are buying homes as soon as they gain landed status and putting down permanent roots into the community...

and I know of two busineses locally that shut down because labour shortages, not that there is a shortage but no one wanted the work which I can understand it's an expensive city and entry level jobs don't pay enough to survive on...

[wyly]

or mikedavid00 could do what millions upon millions have done before him...move...

my parents immigrated looking for a better opportunity, started from scratch with $2, took menial jobs and worked very very hard...

I've done the same with more cash within Canada, when times are bad you can whine and complain or you can do something about it, sell everything and move to where the work is...and be prepared to take a job that is beneath your abilities until better times return...

moving within your own country is a piece of cake compared to what immigrants have to go through, new language, strange customs, hostile weather, hostile hosts...

I can't imagine how my parents coped with a huge family no job and down to their last $2, that's fricken scary...his first job was pushing wheelbarrows of cement in his only interview suit for .50 per hr...

[Leafless]

Who generates the wealth when everyone is old?

Canada's wealth is dependent on other countries manufactured items.

As their economies become more successful, ours declines.

Last time I checked Canada's GDP is generated by 75% services and only 15% manufacturing.

We are in the process of self obliteration.

Immigration will be outmoded along with just about everything else.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Leafless

[Argus]

But any person, "working man" or otherwise, should be able to divorce his own bigotries from an objective truth or two. It's one thing to look upon the practice under discussion here with hostility; it's quite another thing to consider the other workers (also "working men") to be "scum." Interestingly, the employers in question, while certainly held up to disapprobation, are often critiqued as an afterthought: sure, the employers are responsible...but let's expel our real ire on to the lower-wage immigrants hired by these employers.

He didn't call the workers scum. He called HR scum for lying about it in order to bend/break the rules and bring in foreigners to do the work.

But you're right, it's not difficult to understand; it's ordinary, old-fashioned bigotry.

No, I don't think so. I think the resentment has nothing to do with the nationality or ethnicity of the foreigners involved.

[Argus]

If you are working in a field where the majority of positions require one to be bilingual, another good way to spend your time would be learning French. It only takes a few months to a year if you work hard at it.

You've never had the slightest encounter with french language training, have you, son?

[Bonam]

You've never had the slightest encounter with french language training, have you, son?

Actually I lived and worked in Montreal for a period of one year and took French language courses throughout that period. At the end of it, I had no problem understanding written French and could follow conversations, and, though my replies would definitely not be as eloquent as a real French speaker, I could get my point across.

Been a few years since then though and I'm getting rusty since there is never any reason to speak French here out West.

[mikedavid00]

Funny how everything is MY fault.

It's not the fault of the gov't. Never. We are the ONLY country in the world that allows this to happen, yet it's somehow my fault.

The numbers are against me, the job lottery is against me.

We are hiring a contractor to install some windows (save the speech about my personal spending as you don't know what's in my bank account or my finances).

When we posted the job for the contractor, we got 16 responses and counting. Probably 60% of them are immigrants.

So 16 people are bidding for work, and that is just from ONE single website.

There was one Polish sounding name that we seemed quite interested in. He will do the work for $950 and has 25 years experience. (of course we are not going to hire him).

The thing is, I know that most people would.

Now the Canadian's who are not getting the work. See, it's not that there ISN'T work to be done, it's that now there are TOO MUCH supply of labor, for the natural demand of work. The piece of the pie gets sliced THINNER for the Canadians who did NOT ask for these immigration policies.

Basically, the polish person gets to move from Poland, evades taxes, gets free health care, brings his whole family over to our free schools, and his dreams come true.

The Canadian? He is seeing less and less business because the LABOR POOL is just TOO BIG to do the SAME work. It's an UNNATURAL, bubble of excess labor that has just landed on our door step. So the Canadian's dreams are being shattered because he's finding it tougher and tougher to find work as the CONSERVATIVE gov't goes after the POLISH vote giving them special rights to come here.

Are these people REQUIRED to be here? NO THEY ARE NOT.

I'm tired of these people's from foreign countries dreams coming true at the expense of my own! This is MY country. The gov't INCLUDING THE CONSERVATIVES are making Canada some dumping ground for the 3rd world. I was NEVER asked if I wanted any of this. The people never voted on these policies.

The guy from Bell Canada came to my house for my shotty internet service. He told me he used to make $30/h and now he's making $15 an hour. This is a FULLY experience Bell tech.

Since I've been having intermittent issues, I've had countless tech's out to my house. This was the FIRST Canadian that come out. Me and him both had a good talk from one Canadian to another.

When I bought our puppy, me and the breeders had a talk. Canuck to Canuck about where they lived - Scarborough.

If you think blood isn't boiling and people are p*ssed off over mass immigration, think again. Every time I speak to a Canadian, there is boiling tempers. It's stewing.

And working people like me who can't find work and LIVE in the real Canada (sorry 90% of the forum posters as you guys do not), you have NO IDEA how it feels to continually lose jobs to immigrants and have to compete with them. Many of us DO. But you'd have to be 'working folk' to know what's up.

Reading editorials, forums, and newspapers is entertainment. Come out and live in the workplace and get some real life experience. Hang around ethnic minorities and see arranged marriages and up front RACISM practiced first hand. And I'm not talking about the left/media definition, I'm talking about text book RACISM. You will see the racism (even amongst their own) is just a standard thing with most of them.

In the REAL world, in the REAL Canada of Canadians who work for the private sector and making this WHOLE COUNTRY RUN with tax dollars, you will find that things are beginning to boil over and Canadians are angry, upset, and disappointed in the gov't allowing immigration to happen. If they are working and happy, they will NOT be so happy when they have to use our medical system. ONLY THEN will they feel the true effects of MASS, UNCHECKED, ILLOGICAL, INSANE FLOOD of immigration.

[Argus]

Actually I lived and worked in Montreal for a period of one year and took French language courses throughout that period. At the end of it, I had no problem understanding written French and could follow conversations, and, though my replies would definitely not be as eloquent as a real French speaker, I could get my point across.

Okay, that's all very well and good, but by your own statement you took French over a period of a year and your French was fractured and imperfect to say the least. I did a quick check for language courses in Ottawa, and this was the first place I found. Now the rates are about $6,000 for a half year at 5 hrs per day. It's a bit much, don't you think, to ask someone who has already presumably invested money in tech courses and obtained some degree of expertise with them to dig out thousands of dollars (from their UIC cheque?) and somehow support himself as well over the next 6-10 months while learning French in the hopes that might improve their chances of a job.

Language courses

FYI, the federal government generally determines that it requires something like 9 months of full-time language training in order to have much of a chance of passing its bottom-level language tests. At least, that is the time generally alloted to those we send on language training. The majority require extra courses, however, in addition to that nine months.

[mikedavid00]

Actually I lived and worked in Montreal for a period of one year

How did you end up a getting a job in Montreal when you don't speak french?

Come buddy, be honest. Start telling the whole story for once and the truth. Stop the mistruths and holding stuff back.

You are the big boss who knows it all and had all the answers and did the impossible - was able to live and work in Montreal without speaking French. Real easy.

RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF THE FORUM, JUST TELL THE TRUTH:

What exactly where you doing in Montreal for the year working and not being able to speak French. We're waiting...

[daniel]

or mikedavid00 could do what millions upon millions have done before him...move......

This is the same guy who wouldn't go out to vote because it was raining.

Since 1995 right wingers had always preached "do more with less." Well, that's unless they themselves have to do with less. I suppose one solution to prevent all that cheap labour is to have them all unionize to get reasonable pay. But then the right-wingers would just find something else to whine about because now, we're not competitive enough.

Edited March 12, 2010 by daniel

[mikedavid00]

This is the same guy who wouldn't go out to vote because it was raining.

Since 1995 right wingers had always preached "do more with less." Well, that's unless they themselves have to do with less. I suppose one solution to prevent all that cheap labour is to have them all unionize to get reasonable pay. But then the right-wingers would just find something else to whine about because now, we're not competitive enough.

I live in a 'Liberal-Created Immigrant Riding Stronghold'. There is NO POINT to me voting when I know who is going to win.

I also don't preach doing more with less. That is the far left who preaches that.

I preach what the bible does - 'Be Fruitful'. I can not be fruitful when I cannot work.

It also tears me apart to see young families getting paid next to nothing and spending 70% of everything they make on a stupid mortgage that is bubbled un-naturally high due to immigration housing bubble prices.

[bloodyminded]

I live in a 'Liberal-Created Immigrant Riding Stronghold'. There is NO POINT to me voting when I know who is going to win.

I also don't preach doing more with less. That is the far left who preaches that.

I preach what the bible does - 'Be Fruitful'. I can not be fruitful when I cannot work.

It also tears me apart to see young families getting paid next to nothing and spending 70% of everything they make on a stupid mortgage that is bubbled un-naturally high due to immigration housing bubble prices.

Why don't you apply at WalMart or some such similar job? I worked there for almost a year when I got laid off. It was a crappy job, to be sure, but it was a steady paycheque while I looked for better work.

And it's mildly embarassing...because so many people are derisive of grown men "falling" from better positions into that line of work. Especially the more conservative-minded folks: they WILL deride you.

But it's better than being broke.

Seriously, if your benefits are going to run out, I would think desperation the better part of valour.

[bjre]

I preach what the bible does - 'Be Fruitful'. I can not be fruitful when I cannot work.

It also tears me apart to see young families getting paid next to nothing and spending 70% of everything they make on a stupid mortgage that is bubbled un-naturally high due to immigration housing bubble prices.

Free market system should be able to adjust resource automatic. But now the function has been disabled by laws.

There are people have no job. They are free to do something.

There are needs for house. It is expensive.

So why the free people can not build house for the people who need while all the materials are at Home Deport and other shops that are not very expensive? It is because of the law. The laws said only licensed company have permission to design the house and the design need to be sent to some licensed company to review, and need licensed worker to build it. So, your freedom to build your house has been completely removed. That is one of the important reasons that house price can full of bubble. Because not only you, but also many small companies has been excluded from the free market. So those people who could build house have to compete with you for a same job like work in Tim Houtons, or be an accountant or something else. When less people can build cheap house for poor people, those people has to buy bubble priced house, so that bubble becomes larger.

I guess monopoly is the basic feature of Canada system. Most business that related to people’s basic life has been monopolized. Not only they can make high price in this way, but also exclude other people from working in the area.

The result is people can not find jobs while commodity is expensive.

Edited March 12, 2010 by bjre

[mikedavid00]

Why don't you apply at WalMart or some such similar job? I worked there for almost a year when I got laid off. It was a crappy job, to be sure, but it was a steady paycheque while I looked for better work.

And it's mildly embarassing...because so many people are derisive of grown men "falling" from better positions into that line of work. Especially the more conservative-minded folks: they WILL deride you.

But it's better than being broke.

Seriously, if your benefits are going to run out, I would think desperation the better part of valour.

EI isn't gov't benefits. They are paid into from working people (involuntarily). I've paid into EI all my years. It's a 'working persons' thing.

Also you're right. I might have to go work at Wal-Mart or some place like that to support the mortgage of worse comes to worse.

And all the Canadians love it. They love to see someone who went to school and did all the right things be pressured out of the job market and lose their home. They LOVE it.

Canadians have this evil to them. This.. 'sickness'. They enjoy seeing the other failure's of Canadian. I know there is a great group of people LOVING my posts because my failure as a Canadian makes them happy. The success of an immigrant doesn't make them happy, but the fact that it's creating a failure out of ME, a fellow (tax paying) Canadian, now that's what they LOVE. It's this.. self hatred that Canadians have. They love and want more abuse from the gov't.

Remember, it's not directly an immigrants fault that they are here. We would all probably do the same if we were in their shoe's and this 1 sucker country was willing to let us in and everything is free and employers loved to hire me. It's not their fault.

Not myself, Argus, and others have EVER said that it's their direct fault for immigrating here. It's great for them that their dreams are coming true for them. BUT THAT IS AT MY EXPENSE AND SITTING HERE WITH OUT WORK. I'M LOSING WORK TO THEM. The contractors for my window job are LOSING WORK TO THEM. It's SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

Our GOV'T is doing to this. Yes this goes for the CONSERVATIVES. I hate them. This is beyond partisan. Canadians are LOSING jobs, and our 'Canadian dream' to these aliens who SHOULD NOT BE HERE due to a policy the PEOPLE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.

But everyone here will LOVE to see work at Wal-Mart. They WANT it. They ENJOY seeing this.

[mikedavid00]

I guess monopoly is the basic feature of Canada system.

You are a clever guy to notice this.

Canada is based of a 'Pyramid system'. The layer below, send money to the layer above. The common working people like myself in the private sector business (home builders) generate all the wealth in Canada. It gets given to the layer above.

-We are at the bottom layer.

-The layer below is called the civil service. (Gov't unions. Teachers, etc

-About 1 in 4 people in Canada who work full time work for the gov't.

When the gov't gets too big and needs more money, the BOTTOM of the pyramid needs to get bigger to pay for everyone at the top. Canada's answer is immigration. Immigrants come here with life savings, buy a home, put money into the banking and insurance system, and the gov't seems a small increase in money. Roads? Hospitals? Schools? Jobs? Meh that's a provincial problem who cares are that. Let someone else deal with that.

The gov't is involved in EVERYTHING here. Go try to open a restaurant and see that a ventilation hood cost $20,000 because of gov't regulation.

Here the gov't does not let you breath. This country is all about the pyramid.

Just to show you how big of a problem this is, this very website actually has gov't sponsorship going into it as they are given free office space in on of our Universities. They also get given other grants from.. no I wont go into it.

See in Canada, just to log-on to a website to discuss politics and the gov't is involved.

[whowhere]

YES I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THIS FOR YEARS. THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

Such a SIMPLE concept of supply and demand. And it's like WOW, they JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND my #1 reason for apposing immigration (besides all the other secondary problems).

It's SO FRUSTRATING trying to speak with people on this forum because they act so intellectual, well read, and smart, yet they DON'T GET the most simplest of concepts like supply and demand.

You have to realize the people on this Forum have an Agenda to propogate. This goes to the people you talk to face to face and on the internet - They UNDERSTAND - THEY ARE LIARS. Don't let the liars detract you from pushing forward in whatever you do. It's hard to converse with liars or those who argue for the sake of argueing.

[M.Dancer]

Birds of a feather...

[Bonam]

How did you end up a getting a job in Montreal when you don't speak french?

Come buddy, be honest. Start telling the whole story for once and the truth. Stop the mistruths and holding stuff back.

You are the big boss who knows it all and had all the answers and did the impossible - was able to live and work in Montreal without speaking French. Real easy.

RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF THE FORUM, JUST TELL THE TRUTH:

What exactly where you doing in Montreal for the year working and not being able to speak French. We're waiting...

Sure, no problem. I was working at the Canadian Space Agency (their headquarters are in Saint-Hubert, about a 1 hour commute from where I lived in Montreal). My job involved data analysis from a set of experiments conducted on a number of space shuttle flights a few years prior to that. The job was nominally advertised as "bilingual preferred", however, despite me being unable to complete even one sentence in French during my telephone interview, I got hired. When I got there, my supervisor recommended that I learn French, since employees at meetings and such could speak in whatever language they preferred and it would be beneficial if I understood both the English and the French speakers. So that's what I did.

[Bonam]

Okay, that's all very well and good, but by your own statement you took French over a period of a year and your French was fractured and imperfect to say the least. I did a quick check for language courses in Ottawa, and this was the first place I found. Now the rates are about $6,000 for a half year at 5 hrs per day. It's a bit much, don't you think, to ask someone who has already presumably invested money in tech courses and obtained some degree of expertise with them to dig out thousands of dollars (from their UIC cheque?) and somehow support himself as well over the next 6-10 months while learning French in the hopes that might improve their chances of a job.

I took my French courses, while working in Montreal, at McGill University and it certainly cost nowhere near what you mention. Obviously, I was not taking 5 hours per day since I had a full time job. 5 hours per day is not necessary when you are living in an environment where you can immerse yourself in French. I had 6 hours of courses per week.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Bonam

[whowhere]

But any person, "working man" or otherwise, should be able to divorce his own bigotries from an objective truth or two. It's one thing to look upon the practice under discussion here with hostility; it's quite another thing to consider the other workers (also "working men") to be "scum." Interestingly, the employers in question, while certainly held up to disapprobation, are often critiqued as an afterthought: sure, the employers are responsible...but let's expel our real ire on to the lower-wage immigrants hired by these employers.

But you're right, it's not difficult to understand; it's ordinary, old-fashioned bigotry.

What is wrong with you?

The discussion at hand is corporate HR and hiring manager scum highering immigrants over Canadians to save a buck. These immigrants make it harder on Canadians looking for work. These immigrants have degraded working environments and driven down wages. These immigrants have also driven up the expectations (malicious and unrealistice) asked for by employers to get employment. The Employer does this so they can go to the government and claim they can't find Qualified Canadians. Afterwhich they recruit outside of Canada. The cycle of repressing and kicking Canadians to the gutter is continued.

I have seen the evil, and I have experienced this evil.